So, for the past few months I've been playing a bomber list

Jonus + Squad Leader

2x Gamma + flechette torpedoes + ion pulse missile + seismic charge + munitions failsafe

2x Academy pilot.

I even won a low-level tournament with it.

However, lately, I've just been getting the kicked out of me left and right.

I want to try something new, and I don't want to do a Phantom list or a Fat Han. I'd prefer to stick with Imperials, but I won't be dogmatic about that. I think squints are fun, but a pure list of flankers doesn't seem to really work out. Also, I'm the sort of person who does things impulsively and I'm fairly risk prone. I think I need a more conservative list to keep my nature in check.

I'm hoping the Decimator proves to be the centerpiece of my future build, but I'm kind of afraid of it not having those green dice (well, at least the green dice can't betray me if they've abandoned me altogether, right?)

Anyway, I'm not necessarily asking for anyone to suggest a list to me, but maybe some general thoughts on what the Decimator-paradigm would mean.

I'm in the same boat. I love the durability of the bombers and actually prefer their dial over tie fighters in a lot of ways, but they have no teeth without ordnance, the high agility ships evade their primary attacks too easily.

I need some new ideas, recently I've just been trying out different stuff, but I haven't really nailed anything down. I have been liking the Defender (especially with Vessary), and I was impressed with the Decimator (with Kenkirk & Isard) in the one game I used it in, but pairing those two doesn't really leave much room for anything else.

I've been almost exclusively an imperial player, but it might be time to change it up.

I would think something like this might work for you:

You may call me Librarian-chan.

(I was thinking of nearly the same as Fnords. I wish we had a better late game option than the Delta though. You know, like Luke with R2D2 or something).

Well, the last big event in our area, I actually faced *three* Phantom-based lists as all three of my matches.

(First was a Phantom + BH/Captive + Lambda/Vader, second was a Boba/HLC and maxed-out-Phantom, and third was a space whale/double Phantom list)

So....I'd say the thing to focus on is "dealing with Phantoms", and that means high PS and flexible maneuvering options (or, alternatively, a comprehensive blocking strategy).

Well, the last big event in our area, I actually faced *three* Phantom-based lists as all three of my matches.

(First was a Phantom + BH/Captive + Lambda/Vader, second was a Boba/HLC and maxed-out-Phantom, and third was a space whale/double Phantom list)

So....I'd say the thing to focus on is "dealing with Phantoms", and that means high PS and flexible maneuvering options (or, alternatively, a comprehensive blocking strategy).

A bit insane build and I don't know how fun al turrets would be (hell ramming is fun so who am I kidding, this build would be awsome =)

=( I guess nobody cares that I posted a build with 4 tie advanced. =P

=( I guess nobody cares that I posted a build with 4 tie advanced. =P

hehe didnt see that...

Who owns 4 TIE Advanced anyways?

Radarman5, Fnords, I think I like Isard more than Kenkirk. The reason why is that I think this is the perfect ship (ie. the only one) to put Expose on. Yeah, now I've got a HLC too, but mine can roll crits! But, is the Expose action worth not getting a focus action at 4 points? I think I've got a solution, though.

So, here's what I'm thinking at this moment:

Capt. Oicunn + Expose + Isard + Moff J. + Intelligence Agent + Dauntless + Seismic Charge (42+4+4+2+1+2+2=57)

Kath Scarlet + Fleet Officer + Seismic Charge (38+3+2)

Well, the last big event in our area, I actually faced *three* Phantom-based lists as all three of my matches.

(First was a Phantom + BH/Captive + Lambda/Vader, second was a Boba/HLC and maxed-out-Phantom, and third was a space whale/double Phantom list)

So....I'd say the thing to focus on is "dealing with Phantoms", and that means high PS and flexible maneuvering options (or, alternatively, a comprehensive blocking strategy).

Yup I was there. When you were fighting Phantoms I didn't face a single one.

=( I guess nobody cares that I posted a build with 4 tie advanced. =P

Sorry man, I'm too busy thinking on the Decimator build I'm working on.

Well, the last big event in our area, I actually faced *three* Phantom-based lists as all three of my matches.

(First was a Phantom + BH/Captive + Lambda/Vader, second was a Boba/HLC and maxed-out-Phantom, and third was a space whale/double Phantom list)

So....I'd say the thing to focus on is "dealing with Phantoms", and that means high PS and flexible maneuvering options (or, alternatively, a comprehensive blocking strategy).

Yup I was there. When you were fighting Phantoms I didn't face a single one.

LOL - dang frustrating! As the list I brought was pretty much made for smashing Falcon- or B-Wing- based lists, but really quite poor against Phantoms (just didn't have the PS to position against their wildly unpredictable final placement). And all I ended up facing was Phantoms! AAAARRRRGGGH! Still, went one for three, so...not a terrible result, given I was facing pretty much my worst matchup every round....

It did seem that a *lot* of people were bringing Phantoms to that event, though? Pretty much half the lists, it seemed like? I did see at least one 4x B-Wing list out there, which...man...wish I had faced that one...heh...

Radarman5, Fnords, I think I like Isard more than Kenkirk. The reason why is that I think this is the perfect ship (ie. the only one) to put Expose on. Yeah, now I've got a HLC too, but mine can roll crits! But, is the Expose action worth not getting a focus action at 4 points? I think I've got a solution, though.

So, here's what I'm thinking at this moment:

Capt. Oicunn + Expose + Isard + Moff J. + Intelligence Agent + Dauntless + Seismic Charge (42+4+4+2+1+2+2=57)

Kath Scarlet + Fleet Officer + Seismic Charge (38+3+2)

Well, the last big event in our area, I actually faced *three* Phantom-based lists as all three of my matches.

(First was a Phantom + BH/Captive + Lambda/Vader, second was a Boba/HLC and maxed-out-Phantom, and third was a space whale/double Phantom list)

So....I'd say the thing to focus on is "dealing with Phantoms", and that means high PS and flexible maneuvering options (or, alternatively, a comprehensive blocking strategy).

Yup I was there. When you were fighting Phantoms I didn't face a single one.

=( I guess nobody cares that I posted a build with 4 tie advanced. =P

Sorry man, I'm too busy thinking on the Decimator build I'm working on.

That build would not win the initative war VS Whisper, Been thinking along the same lines but if you are hunting phantoms with a Decimator Chiraneau+VI (PS10) with his ability to turn a focus into a crit is the best way to go, hands down.

Kath is nice but I was hunting phantoms with her I would to tactician + VI for double stress possibility at range 2 (still same problem with initative, but stress hurts the phantom)

Yeah, I faced David's B-List, and it was a fun fight, but his Bs just annihilated my bombers one at a time.

Indeed, it seems like Portland is strong in the Meta.

That build would not win the initative war VS Whisper, Been thinking along the same lines but if you are hunting phantoms with a Decimator Chiraneau+VI (PS10) with his ability to turn a focus into a crit is the best way to go, hands down.

Kath is nice but I was hunting phantoms with her I would to tactician + VI for double stress possibility at range 2 (still same problem with initative, but stress hurts the phantom)

No, it would not win initiative vs. Whisper, but I'm rolling four red dice on a turret, with Kath to give me a focus token (if I don't run over some hapless Academy TIE to give me that focus token. I'll eat Whisper's shot while I warm up my red dice.

I'm tired of the game of everyone having to have high PS. Besides. Not having initiative means that I can try to run Whisper over like squirrel on the highway.

That build would not win the initative war VS Whisper, Been thinking along the same lines but if you are hunting phantoms with a Decimator Chiraneau+VI (PS10) with his ability to turn a focus into a crit is the best way to go, hands down.

Kath is nice but I was hunting phantoms with her I would to tactician + VI for double stress possibility at range 2 (still same problem with initative, but stress hurts the phantom)

No, it would not win initiative vs. Whisper, but I'm rolling four red dice on a turret, with Kath to give me a focus token (if I don't run over some hapless Academy TIE to give me that focus token. I'll eat Whisper's shot while I warm up my red dice.

I'm tired of the game of everyone having to have high PS. Besides. Not having initiative means that I can try to run Whisper over like squirrel on the highway.

Hehe fair enough. Those 4 red should win out a least once in a game. And Ramming should be possible at least one turn as well. Could work, noone in my area has a Decimator yet so I haven't had time to play it/or against it

It's just theory at this point for me too.

It's just theory at this point for me too.

I spend a lot of my list building time looking at different Decimator lists, tbh I fell that the best is probably Whisper+Decimator/Firespray+Decimator or some kind of Decimator + 2 ship list (2 shuttles maybe =)

Can't wait until it's released, will be huge for Imp to get a turret ship

I hear you. I wonder how fundamentally different from the HSF list it will be, though.

I hear you. I wonder how fundamentally different from the HSF list it will be, though.

Oicunn + Expose will be different for sure, don't know how valid due to lower defence.

Chiraneau + VI will be very similar I think

Krassis Trelix (36)

=( I guess nobody cares that I posted a build with 4 tie advanced. =P

hehe didnt see that...

Who owns 4 TIE Advanced anyways?

I do.. and I have used them as well.. it's hit or moss depending on your opponent.. and your own skill.

Also looking to use my Decimator. I like some of the lists here, but not a fan of the Doom shuttle, I like my Opaque Celestial Manatees to live.. the double Decimator looks vicious, but that will depend on your opponent and how fas he can heap the damage on you. Tactics wise though it could put a hurt on someone.

...I want to try something new, and I don't want to do a Phantom list or a Fat Han. I'd prefer to stick with Imperials, but I won't be dogmatic about that. I think squints are fun, but a pure list of flankers doesn't seem to really work out. Also, I'm the sort of person who does things impulsively and I'm fairly risk prone. I think I need a more conservative list to keep my nature in check.

I'm hoping the Decimator proves to be the centerpiece of my future build, but I'm kind of afraid of it not having those green dice (well, at least the green dice can't betray me if they've abandoned me altogether, right?)

Anyway, I'm not necessarily asking for anyone to suggest a list to me, but maybe some general thoughts on what the Decimator-paradigm would mean.

Decimators are good, but they're all very different in character:

• The Patrol Leader is generic but makes for a good (if slow) support piece and clean-up hitter. (The classic escort, for me, would be a Howlrunner mini-swarm.)
• Oicunn wants to be fast and aggressive, and needs to be supported by something that can distract and/or snipe your opponent to prevent him or her from focusing fire at close range. (Phantoms are good for this.)
• Kenkirk is a thoughtful strategic, and essentially defensive piece, and wants to fly with aggressive pieces that force your opponent to leave Kenkirk for the endgame. (Defenders are good for this.)
• Chiraneau is a great high-PS hitter (I like him with Predator, Isard, and Gunner or Engine Upgrade), and he's probably the most flexible and well-rounded Decimator pilot--but his expense means he's relatively inefficient, and requires careful play that forces bad shots from your opponent or dodges arcs altogether.

So I'm not sure it's terribly meaningful to say "I'd like to run a Decimator", because they're so different. Rather, what do you want your Decimator to do, and who do you plan on flying along with it?

So I'm not sure it's terribly meaningful to say "I'd like to run a Decimator", because they're so different. Rather, what do you want your Decimator to do, and who do you plan on flying along with it?

Thanks for your typology, I think it's very helpful. Also I like how you're turning this around and making the build-question about capabilities rather than ships. My problem is that I don't have a good framework to think about capabilities, so I default to one about ships.

Still in terms of capabilities, I'd say that the Decimators are similar enough (Turret; no green dice) and high enough in points that they are automatically the centerpiece of any squad. Maybe the exception would be a near-naked patrol leader and a great couple of flankers, where the Decimator is mostly the feint.

Maybe this is just evidence that my thought process hasn't graduated to a more insightful level of understanding. If so, what do I need to realize to get there?

So I'm not sure it's terribly meaningful to say "I'd like to run a Decimator", because they're so different. Rather, what do you want your Decimator to do, and who do you plan on flying along with it?

Thanks for your typology, I think it's very helpful. Also I like how you're turning this around and making the build-question about capabilities rather than ships. My problem is that I don't have a good framework to think about capabilities, so I default to one about ships.

Still in terms of capabilities, I'd say that the Decimators are similar enough (Turret; no green dice) and high enough in points that they are automatically the centerpiece of any squad. Maybe the exception would be a near-naked patrol leader and a great couple of flankers, where the Decimator is mostly the feint.

Maybe this is just evidence that my thought process hasn't graduated to a more insightful level of understanding. If so, what do I need to realize to get there?

No, I think you're right: the Decimator, through sheer cost if nothing else, dominates your list-building. What I really mean is that the choices you make with those other 35-55 points, though, are in conversation with the choices you make when you outfit the Decimator.

To draw an analogy, picking a Decimator for your list is like choosing beef as a main course. Cut and preparation can vary widely, however, and other dishes, wine, etc. all still have a substantial effect on the meal as a whole. A hamburger with fries and a beer isn't the same meal as a steak with roasted new potatoes and a Malbec, even if they contain many of the same ingredients.

Anyway--what I like most about the Decimator is that the pilots do have such a heavy influence on the way you play them. Obviously I have my preferences, and they won't be the same as yours, so it might be better if I tell you to take it to the table and start practicing rather than having me talk at you about it. (c:

Obviously I have my preferences, and they won't be the same as yours, so it might be better if I tell you to take it to the table and start practicing rather than having me talk at you about it. (c:

Dammit, I was hoping for transcendent wisdom.

So, once you start down the Decimator path, forever will it dominate your destiny.

Anyway, I'm trying to anchor my own natural tendency to overextend myself. That's why I have a hard time playing squints, because I frequently just boost and barrel roll, leaving me stressed and without focus. That's also because I have yet to master the art of arc dodging.

So, I'm working on the 'know thyself' aspect of Sun Tzu.

Anyway, I'm trying to anchor my own natural tendency to overextend myself...

Okay, so run Kenkirk + Determination + Isard + Rebel Captive. Should be fairly difficult to overextend that guy.

You'll want a heavy hitter to accompany him, and (as I said above) I think Defenders are good for that, particularly HLC Defenders. Rexler Brath + Predator + HLC would give you just enough room to run a Tactical Jammer on Kenkirk, who can act as a sniper; Vessery + Adrenaline Rush + HLC + Engine Upgrade leaves room for an Intelligence Agent on Kenkirk, who can help guide Vessery's decision-making with the boost.

If having a single fighter and a single Decimator isn't up your alley, the same Kenkirk build could easily accommodate a Firespray instead of a Defender, or simple flight of four Academy Pilots, or a pair of Gammas with hardware.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I've flown Kenkirk + Brath a few times and had a fair amount of fun with it. I haven't tested it repeatedly against the current metagame in competitive conditions, however, so YMMV. I've also run Kenkirk + 4x Academy, and found it extremely effective but boring. I haven't run Kenkirk + Gammas at all, although now I want to.