Guys, i really like flying the Defender, it's a breath of fresh air compared to the other Ties. I really like the unique dial. Those soft 1 banks have surprised quite a few people (the white 4k won't catch any good player off guard anymore). It's fast and kinda nimble in it's own way once you learn to avoid the hard turns.

However, i have a hard time building good squads around the defender, i just can't get around the huge point cost. The generic ps1 at 30points seems overpriced by a good couple points (MathWing expertshave pointed this out in other threads ).

On the other hand the named pilots have abilities that are are very situational and/or unrealiable, but they do have that precious ept slot. And given the huge base cost i usually go for a HLC which puts the ship in 42/44 pts range with the most tricked out variants coming close to 50 points.

So the defender seems to be stuck in a weird place. With 35/37pts base cost and 40+++ for a tricked out Defender you kind of have to build a squad around this ship, but even with a 3/3/3 statline it isn't sturdy enough to offset the huge point cost.

Now don't get me wrong, it's defense is good, but i've found that enemies heave learned to focus on the defender which causes me all kinds of problems:

-With 40+ points invested you would want to use your action offensively because the squad will rely on damage from the Defender. However, even with 3 evade it's not uncommon to roll blanks and 3/3 isn't really that much protection if you get focused on. And the dial, while fun, is hardly optimal for arc dodging.the Defender is no Phantom or Interceptor in terms of agility.

-With Wave5 and more turret ships coming i can see this becoming even more of a problem, the Defender is almost as expensive as these turret ships and can go down much faster if focus fired upon.

-I've had better results both offensively and defensively with Phantoms, which ironically cost less points than Defenders. Given the regionals/nationals results i am hardly surprised by this.

In conclusion i really really want to like the ship and i'm flying it in casual games whenever i can, but whenever i build a competetive list i always come up short because the thing is just so expensive. Am i missing something here?

Try using the PS 1 naked or with just a heavy laser cannon, then spend remaining points on your favourite combo of mini swarm, flank with the lone Defender and give your opponent a tough decision. Once the defender gets in amongst the enemy from the flank, it can K turn back in and re engage, yes it's predictable and yes your opponent will see it coming but how does he deal with this and the swarm.

I am not saying I am winning tournaments with this list but I have found it just as efective as Phantom and mini swarms.

Give it a go with two naked Deltas and a Shuttle of choice, also a good combo.

All I know, I look forward to Rexlar going Decimator hunting...

After having flown 3 Defenders (basic 30 pointers, one with hvy laser cannon, one with ion cannon) for the first time today, against an X-wing build (Biggs, Wedge, Luke + R2D2, all of them with shield upgrades), I am now a believer.

It was glorious. The ion cannon set them up, the hvy laser brought the hammer, and in between that all the 4k-turning-to-TL'ing-to-annihilating made it a memorable first outing indeed for the flying eyeball.

After having flown 3 Defenders (basic 30 pointers, one with hvy laser cannon, one with ion cannon) for the first time today, against an X-wing build (Biggs, Wedge, Luke + R2D2, all of them with shield upgrades), I am now a believer.

It was glorious. The ion cannon set them up, the hvy laser brought the hammer, and in between that all the 4k-turning-to-TL'ing-to-annihilating made it a memorable first outing indeed for the flying eyeball.

Welcome to the winning side.

After having flown 3 Defenders (basic 30 pointers, one with hvy laser cannon, one with ion cannon) for the first time today, against an X-wing build (Biggs, Wedge, Luke + R2D2, all of them with shield upgrades), I am now a believer.

It was glorious. The ion cannon set them up, the hvy laser brought the hammer, and in between that all the 4k-turning-to-TL'ing-to-annihilating made it a memorable first outing indeed for the flying eyeball.

To be fair, try it again against BXXZZZ.

3X is not a very competitive list, that one in particular.

The thing I am contemplating now is, how much more annoying would it be to trade the hvy laser for two more ions, and would it be worth the loss of the punching power of the hvy laser?

After having flown 3 Defenders (basic 30 pointers, one with hvy laser cannon, one with ion cannon) for the first time today, against an X-wing build (Biggs, Wedge, Luke + R2D2, all of them with shield upgrades), I am now a believer.

It was glorious. The ion cannon set them up, the hvy laser brought the hammer, and in between that all the 4k-turning-to-TL'ing-to-annihilating made it a memorable first outing indeed for the flying eyeball.

To be fair, try it again against BXXZZZ.

3X is not a very competitive list, that one in particular.

Hmm...I was of the understanding that a similar X-wing list won something significant not so very long ago... But yeah, sure, being severely outnumbered would require a different approach from what I had luck with doing today.

After having flown 3 Defenders (basic 30 pointers, one with hvy laser cannon, one with ion cannon) for the first time today, against an X-wing build (Biggs, Wedge, Luke + R2D2, all of them with shield upgrades), I am now a believer.

It was glorious. The ion cannon set them up, the hvy laser brought the hammer, and in between that all the 4k-turning-to-TL'ing-to-annihilating made it a memorable first outing indeed for the flying eyeball.

To be fair, try it again against BXXZZZ.

3X is not a very competitive list, that one in particular.

Hmm...I was of the understanding that a similar X-wing list won something significant not so very long ago... But yeah, sure, being severely outnumbered would require a different approach from what I had luck with doing today.

If I was running 3 Defenders with Ion Cannons and sat down across from BXXZZZ, I would be licking my chops. Ion the B to get it out of the way, gun down the X's, then come back for the B and finish with the Zs. Im primarily a Rebel flyer, but I had 3 Defenders...

After having flown 3 Defenders (basic 30 pointers, one with hvy laser cannon, one with ion cannon) for the first time today, against an X-wing build (Biggs, Wedge, Luke + R2D2, all of them with shield upgrades), I am now a believer.

It was glorious. The ion cannon set them up, the hvy laser brought the hammer, and in between that all the 4k-turning-to-TL'ing-to-annihilating made it a memorable first outing indeed for the flying eyeball.

To be fair, try it again against BXXZZZ.

3X is not a very competitive list, that one in particular.

Hmm...I was of the understanding that a similar X-wing list won something significant not so very long ago... But yeah, sure, being severely outnumbered would require a different approach from what I had luck with doing today.

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/105107-2014-regionals-results/?p=1171547

3X's fly differently with Wes + 2x Opportunist.

In general 3 small-ship rebels has done very poorly since wave 4 hit. This tournament was wave 3. It's a nice squad but I don't know how well it will hold up now. It'll probably work better with Keyan Farlander in a 2X 1B format.

Biggs + 2X's is a completely different animal.

Now don't get me wrong, it's defense is good, but i've found that enemies heave learned to focus on the defender which causes me all kinds of problems:

The best piece of advice I can offer you deals with deployment. Obviously this work best with Rexler, or at least a Vessery with Veteran Instincts.

Basically, what you want to do is position your initial engagement (in otherwords, what you believe the first 2 rounds of combat will look like) so that focusing on the Defender is a bad idea. The two best ways I know to do this are to deploy your Defender far to one side of the field, and to use that position to draw your opponents into less-than-fortunate locations.

To elaborate a little further, the ideal opening movements for such a squad are a Defender who can move aggressively the first turn, but be in long range by the end of turn two, and a supporting squad that can be in range 1-2 by turn 2, but who are also inaccessible during turn one. For the Defender, do your best to deploy in a space where the following statements are true:

He is not directly across from an opponent.

He can take a 3-5 forward maneuver out of the gate, preferably one that makes him side by side with an asteroid.

Assuming the former is true, a bank maneuver can carry him in between asteroids without pointing him directly at an asteroid that will prevent a k-turn, or prevent a k-turn after making a 1-forward (in other words, being Ioned for a turn won't spoil a k-turn).

I know it may sound a touch confusing, but the general aim of such an approach creates certain circumstances. Namely:

Your Defender cannot be attacked at an easier range than other, more expendable ships.

Your Defender cannot be attacked by opponents who are outside of the firing arc of the rest of your squad.

Your Defender cannot be attacked without having a decent chance to evade a good deal of damage.

Your opponent's squad may be entirely within all your firing arcs.

At least some of your opponents ships have been drawn into a field of asteroids, and they may not be as adept at maneuvering through them as your ships are.

The Defender has a unique advantage when fighting in the thick of an asteroid field thanks to its k-turn. Namely, that it's the only ship that can repeatedly enter spaces that it knows it won't impact an asteroid (i.e. a position it was just in). Many times, in games I have played, my opponents have been thoroughly drawn into such a trap, only to find that after a round or two of fighting they were forced to wave off their vectors, or rather I should say that turning into a pursuit vector was not possible without at least passing through an obstacle (or worse, risking landing on one). Further, you can use this by attempting to approach opponents by passing close to asteroids. They provide cover for you, but any ship passing you by may be limited to straight maneuvers and turning in only one direction. While technically true of any ship, the Defender's unique dial makes better use of this mechanical defense than most by limiting you to maneuvers that actually carry you well between obstacles, since the wide movements of repeated 3 turns have proven useful in slaloming between them.

Hmm… I bet this post is a lot less cohesive than I think it is right now, but it's late and I worked for 16.5 straight hours today. I'll likely end up coming back and editing this one. Still, hopefully it makes sense and allows you to stretch those 6 HP no matter who you face.

Dude...

===============
Def+Def+Phantom
===============

100 points

Pilots
------

Delta Squadron Pilot (33)
TIE Defender (30), Ion Cannon (3)

Delta Squadron Pilot (35)
TIE Defender (30), Autoblaster (5)

Sigma Squadron Pilot (32)
TIE Phantom (25), Recon Specialist (3), Fire-Control System (2), Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

I won 2 matches in a row on a game night 3 weeks ago.

This 4K turn is stupid its so good.

This is big boy football. After placing my asteroids out of the way, it was full charge. My opponet actually got dopped into chasing the Sigma cloaked Phantom with Recon due to a Phanton group win right before, until he realized he had just got 2 4k-turned defenders on his rear, one with an ion and one with an autoblaster. It was nice.

I've never really considered auto blaster on the defender but if your behind him and have TL or focus yeah that'll hurt.

Dude...

===============

Def+Def+Phantom

===============

100 points

Pilots

------

Delta Squadron Pilot (33)

TIE Defender (30), Ion Cannon (3)

Delta Squadron Pilot (35)

TIE Defender (30), Autoblaster (5)

Sigma Squadron Pilot (32)

TIE Phantom (25), Recon Specialist (3), Fire-Control System (2), Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

I won 2 matches in a row on a game night 3 weeks ago.

This 4K turn is stupid its so good.

This is big boy football. After placing my asteroids out of the way, it was full charge. My opponet actually got dopped into chasing the Sigma cloaked Phantom with Recon due to a Phanton group win right before, until he realized he had just got 2 4k-turned defenders on his rear, one with an ion and one with an autoblaster. It was nice.

Sweet tapdancing christ that list looks terrifying.