You can make a swarm of X-wings still have some tricks left using this

Rookie pilot x 3

Roark + Ion turet

Tala

100 points

I was thinking;

Howlrunner - Swarm Tactics

Black Squadron - Swarm Tactics x2

Academy Pilot x4

For an even hundred

I was thinking;

Howlrunner - Swarm Tactics

Black Squadron - Swarm Tactics x2

Academy Pilot x4

For an even hundred

Try whatever, just make sure the X-wings focus down Howlrunner and the Black Squadron Pilots first for that squad.

X-wing cost efficiency is too low to reliably use the generics consistently. Either spend the extra point to get the B-wing's durability, or just mass Z-95s, which have the same damage output per point cost, but with much more durability.

There are things the mathematical vacuum doesn't take into account though. For instance the 4 k-turn at times gets you out of crowded areas and gets you an extra round of shooting, where-as the Z's tighter 3 k-turn more often would bump a back-line ship. The B's 2k can be a nice tight flip, but it's not even possible to k-turn behind a large-based ship. Also, the X-wing has an astromech slot, which opens up more possibilities.

True, I was only looking at the straight-up jousting values.

But, I do have a fairly rigorous and consistent method of weighting the impact of the dial, actions, and available upgrades as well, which predicts that it is still generally not enough to justify the cost of the generic X-wings if other options are available. I generally come to Ithe same conclusion from play experience.

It would be interesting to see how you weight the different aspects, but I don't think it would fully encapsulate the synergies between abilities, synergies with/against other ships, and some of the more detailed aspects of actual play.

A few X-wing builds:

-Rookie +R7 - a less effective version of Tarn, but still more durable than a B-wing if not focus-fired on (end-game durability)

-Rookie +R2D2 or R5P9 - another effective end game generic that's hard to kill

-Rookie +R3A2 - Stressing high priority targets for the price of stressing a lower one.

-Rookie +R7T1 + Experimental Interface (upcoming) + APT - a generic rookie that can fairly reliably focus, target lock, then boost into range 1 and deliver an APT - granted this 12pt package might be better suited elsewhere, it can still be effective on a rookie. After, or without, the payload, the rookie is still a fantastic dog-fighter.

R2D6 opens up a lot of options for the red pilot including the following EPTs:

Deadeye

Draw their Fire

Expert Handling

Lone Wolf

Opportunist

Outmaneuver

Predator

Push the Limit

Wingman

ymmv

X-wings seem to really struggle because of the lack of boost/barrel roll. I wonder if 4 X's with engine upgrade aren't a more competitive squad than mixing in named pilots. I think it has potential. After the first engagement you are better able to force range 1 and get in and out of arcs. X's always seem to suffer from not being in position to actually throw dice down range. Missing those opportunities is a sure path to failure. The downside is little to no action economy (other than TLing on off turns) limits your damage.

If I could squeeze in 4 Reds with hull upgrade I would also consider that (but it's slightly over), not sure if Rookies with shield upgrades would actually work all that well or not with the low PS bid.

The poor X-wing really has been outclassed, jack of all trades, useless at most.

Biggs still has his applications, as does Wes / Wedge / Tarn.

A Rookie is still the best ship to hold R3-A2, which I'm shocked to see so rarely in competitive play.

If you mean Rookie Pilot, then yes.

Bah... 4 x's are still viable. Maybe not a world champ list but they can hold their own with any seasoned pilot behind the helm. Again, just give me 4 rooks with shield or torps and Ill have a solid chance to win..

I'm thinking about 4X with R2s and Stealth....

You know Major, I think if I was to play a game against you, it would feel like playing against 3PO.

Me: 'Okay, so I think I'll target this one...'

Major: 'The odds of doing at least one damage to this ship is only 23.47%, are you sure you wish to proceed?'

Me: 'Well, I was more thinking about this one after all'

Major: 'You certainly raise your odds to 42.59%, but that is still very low'

Me: 'Yeah well, I live dangerously....'

*roll dice and get Hit-Focus-Focus*

Me: 'I guess I'll use my focus!'

Major: 'With all the ship targeting you, I'm not sure it is wise to use it now as there is 82.33% that it will save your ship this turn.'

Me: 'You know what Major... Never tell me the odds!!! Focus!'

Me later this turn after my ship got blown out: 'Son of a!'

Major: 'I told you, shall we play another game or are you tired to lose?'

Me: ' Sure, but next time..... let the wookie win.........'

You know Major, I think if I was to play a game against you, it would feel like playing against 3PO.

Ha ha ha, I showed this to my wife and she got a good laugh out of that!

In reality, there would be a 68.4% chance that I would I would bump half my ships lose their actions, giving me only a 15.2% chance of destroying your ship.

So, after the transport until wave 4 I ran a 4X list I called "Hobbie Town":

X-WING: · TARN MISON

X-WING: · "HOBBIE" KLIVIAN

· R2-D6

Push The Limit

X-WING: · BIGGS DARKLIGHTER

X-WING: RED SQUADRON PILOT

After wave 4 hit I dropped the red sqdn for cracken with squad leader and an R7 on Tarn. The action efficiency is too good to pass up. My current version is:

X-WING: · TARN MISON

R7 Astromech

X-WING: · BIGGS DARKLIGHTER

X-WING: · "HOBBIE" KLIVIAN

· R2-D6

Push The Limit

Z-95 HEADHUNTER: · AIREN CRACKEN

Squad Leader

I'm glad to have provoked some thought & some great responses, thanks guys.

The 4 X-Wing build is something I'm toying with mostly from a thematic point of view, but I like to win too. I don't think it's massively outclassed, but I'll agree that it suffers from (quite a few) poor match ups, which would normally be mitigated through the use of different ship types.

I suppose that I'm not convinced by Rookies, mainly because I think that the PS bid is very important to a build where the ships aren't that manoeuvrable, but are hard hitting - I think that the ability to fire before most other generics is important in ensuring that the firepower that you're paying points for is actually used.

I'm also not convinced by Biggs in a 4 X-Wing build either. The point of defensive flying, that I can see, is to try to stop your opponent taking out one ship at a time. This can be done by superior movement (i.e. getting out of arcs), or by making your opponent have difficult targeting decisions. Biggs strips out the second method and actively forces your opponent to focus fire on a single ship - which is the last thing I think you want in a build where all the ships are roughly as effective as each other (it obviously makes sense where he's the wingman for a better/ more expensive ship).

I'm not that averse to a Z-95 in the list, however, I think that it dilutes the firepower of the list to a bigger detriment that any action efficiency that can occur (although I do like CJ Keys list above). Rolling 2 red dice is very different from rolling 3 red dice, unless you have a ton of 2 red dice to roll.

I like the idea of running 4 reds (2 with shield/engine/hull(for initiative)), but I think a couple of low cost high P/S or good abilities improve the squad more efficiently.

I'm waffling, so I'll stop. But given that I seem to have piqued some interest, I'll report back on my tournament on Saturday - and you can then tell me that I was wrong!

I am REALLY anticipating a Rogue Squadron pilot generic card. To me it would be the equivalent of Royal Guard Intercepters with a 6 PS for 24 or 25 pts each.

I'm glad to have provoked some thought & some great responses, thanks guys.

The 4 X-Wing build is something I'm toying with mostly from a thematic point of view, but I like to win too. I don't think it's massively outclassed, but I'll agree that it suffers from (quite a few) poor match ups, which would normally be mitigated through the use of different ship types.

I suppose that I'm not convinced by Rookies, mainly because I think that the PS bid is very important to a build where the ships aren't that manoeuvrable, but are hard hitting - I think that the ability to fire before most other generics is important in ensuring that the firepower that you're paying points for is actually used.

I'm also not convinced by Biggs in a 4 X-Wing build either. The point of defensive flying, that I can see, is to try to stop your opponent taking out one ship at a time. This can be done by superior movement (i.e. getting out of arcs), or by making your opponent have difficult targeting decisions. Biggs strips out the second method and actively forces your opponent to focus fire on a single ship - which is the last thing I think you want in a build where all the ships are roughly as effective as each other (it obviously makes sense where he's the wingman for a better/ more expensive ship).

I'm not that averse to a Z-95 in the list, however, I think that it dilutes the firepower of the list to a bigger detriment that any action efficiency that can occur (although I do like CJ Keys list above). Rolling 2 red dice is very different from rolling 3 red dice, unless you have a ton of 2 red dice to roll.

I like the idea of running 4 reds (2 with shield/engine/hull(for initiative)), but I think a couple of low cost high P/S or good abilities improve the squad more efficiently.

I'm waffling, so I'll stop. But given that I seem to have piqued some interest, I'll report back on my tournament on Saturday - and you can then tell me that I was wrong!

I will admit I was scared of loosing one attack die but having 3 x wings with target locks and 2 with usable focus evens things out quick on the first pass.

Err, yeah, you were right.

I had a little rough dice luck today, but essentially either the list wasn't good enough, or I wasn't good enough - I suspect a little of both.

The list is far too predictable due to the mediocre dial available, and Tarn and Luke were not as defensively viable as I had thought (and not as good as in my playtesting).

4 games:

Loss to rebel z-95 & biggs swarm (you were right about biggs too)

Loss to phantom/interceptor list - although his green dice were like nothing I've ever seen!

Loss to tie swarm

Win against fat Han

You really can't win them all...

My favorite 4 X-Wing list is:

Luke w/Swarm Tactics

Porkins w/Swarm Tactics

Rookie

Rookie

As long as you fly the rookies as wing men to Luke and Porkins, they attack at 8 and 7 respectively. Also, Porkins ability to shed stress immediately following a k-turn and then take an action is huge in the right situations. Admittedly, I use Porkins ability in the late game so as to not give the enemy a clear target in the early turns of the game.

Luke has quickly become one of my favorite pilots because of the survival skills he has due to his special ability.

The list, like almost all lists, has it's strengths in good maneuvering and taking advantage of asteroids to screen your shots from enemies.

Yeah, you can say this list has it's down side because all you have to do is bust up the formations, deny actions, etc. But, the same weaknesses can be applied to any other list.

I personally think 4 X-Wings is here to stay. Give it a whirl and let me know what you think. Maybe have someone from Team Covenant or some other X-Wing blog site see what they think?