I can't find one of these discussions lately, so I thought it would be worth having another look at this archetypal list.

Previously there have been a few 100 point lists knocking around that did well a few months ago, but I think that these can boiled down to a couple of the most successful ones:

Wedge (add bells & whistles to taste)

Biggs

Rookie

Rookie

Luke (with any of R2D2, DTF, shield, hull - dependant on points)

Biggs (or a rookie depending on bells & whistles on Luke)

Rookie

Rookie

Looking at these lists, I think that they fared badly over the last few releases.

Phantoms take these lists apart by isolating Wedge or Luke and removing the ability of Biggs by manoeuvring him out of arc.

Phantoms and more HLCs everywhere mean that Biggs isn't reliable enough when he does get hit, he simply won't last long enough.

Predator means that Rookies don't last long enough either.

On that basis, I'm looking at lists that can take more of a beating all round, and rely on the X-Wing's innate firepower without marking one guy (I'm looking at you Wedge) as the "man to kill".

The list I've come up with is:

Luke - R4-D6 (hopefully he'll save himself some trouble from the phantoms & HLCs)

Red squadron (no double dice predator for you, sir!)

Red squadron (no, nor you either)

Tarn - R7 astromech (again, making him more reliable defensively as per Luke)

It squirts out at a round 100 points.

I'm taking it to a store tournament this weekend, so I'll let you know how it works (should I remember), but I'm interested to see if anyone else is still running 4 X-Wings, and how they run them.

I was quite excited to play the following list, as I could not get my transport for a while after it released. I was, however disappointed. I went 1-5 with this lost while prepping for regionals, so I switched to a rebel swarm. It's fun, but it's much more defensively weak than I thought.

Hobbie Klivian

++R3A2

Biggs

Tarn Mison

++R7 Astromech

Red Squadron

The best part of it I'd that it buys you extra rounds late game because if Tarn with R7. Early on he's not a threat and late game they don't want to waste valuable attacks on him. He is remarkable durable 1v1 or 1v2.

I no longer see 4 Xs as a viable list. The base model is too costly for the low PS and you can't stack up on multiple high PS ships. A low PS ship needs to be cheaper or bring more to the table than the Rookie/Red can.

I ran 4 Xs in a league a while ago. I used the Wedge/Biggs/Rookie/Rookie and even then it struggled with Interceptors. I had to play too much of a guessing game to try and keep ships in arc.

At this point I see nothing beneficial from taking a 21pt Rookie when I could take a 22pt Blue, or Cracken, or Blount, etc.

X's definitely have a hard time with the more maneuverable ships.

They are still solid in my area since Intercepters are hard to find for sale.

I love to run a rookies with R2-D2. They are not a big enough threat usually to get much attention. If ignored too long though they can be very good late game threats. I usually get a a lot more mileage from a rookie sporting R2-D2 then a high skill unique pilot who has a big target on them already.

Wedge Antillies With Outmaneuver and R4-D6 (33pts)

2- Rookie Pilot with Flechette Torpedoes (23pts)

1- Rookie Pilot (21pts)

This would let Wedge stack a neg 2 agi against defender which would wreck just about anything.

There are a few ways to easily fit some anti-phantom/interceptor stuff into a list like this

Wedge or Janson with veteran instincts trumps Whisper+VI and Soontir since he is stuck with ptl and can't use VI, and they can both take R3-A2 to stress a Phantom or double stress an interceptor along with their abilities to strip tokens or reduce agility.

swapping out a generic x-wing for a Y-wing with an ion cannon is always a possibility as well for 360 degree coverage and the ion effect which can work very well against phantoms and especially interceptors

X-wing cost efficiency is too low to reliably use the generics consistently. Either spend the extra point to get the B-wing's durability, or just mass Z-95s, which have the same damage output per point cost, but with much more durability.

X-wing cost efficiency is too low to reliably use the generics consistently. Either spend the extra point to get the B-wing's durability, or just mass Z-95s, which have more durability and damage output per point cost.

Unfortunately is no reason to run a generic x if you have the extra point for a b wing, its a totally superior ship.

X-wing cost efficiency is too low to reliably use the generics consistently. Either spend the extra point to get the B-wing's durability, or just mass Z-95s, which have more durability and damage output per point cost.

This is pretty much it. I run xs cuz I like them thematically, especially Wedge, Luke and Wes. I'd really like to try all threw with a z95 for fun sometime but I haven't had the chance.

Unfortunately is no reason to run a generic x if you have the extra point for a b wing, its a totally superior ship.

I should have clarified, X-wing damage output and Z-95 damage output is basically identical for the cost. But the Z-95's are more durable. Maths.

this is sort of thing that tends to happen. power creep tends to render older ships obsolete. FFG has done a better job than most, but it is still happening. Noone takes a rookie xwing who wants to play competitively. there is simply no reason to do so. There are better options for the points. With Tarn around, i think even a red squad is in the same boat, unless you want more than one that is.

I certainly wouldn't say X-wings are obsolete. Their strengths are simply different than they were in earlier waves. They still have some of the best unique pilots on the table, thanks in no small part to the Rebel Transport. Also, astromechs continue to be among the most versatile of upgrade options available. X-wings can perform well in groups, but not so much in groups of only X-wings anymore. For example, at the Georgia Regional I performed well above my expectation and personal skill. I got 17th out of 60, winning 4 out of 6 matches, which is great by no means but far better than I expected to perform. I played a Rebel Swarm, BXXZZZ. The two Rookie Pilots were responsible for the bulk of the damage output in the list, as most opponents felt it necessary to focus the B-wing off the table first.

X-wings as a ship are fine. All X-wing squads are much weaker than in past waves. The game is developing in such a way that encourages mixed ship squads and mixed pilot skill squads.

this is sort of thing that tends to happen. power creep tends to render older ships obsolete. FFG has done a better job than most, but it is still happening. Noone takes a rookie xwing who wants to play competitively. there is simply no reason to do so. There are better options for the points. With Tarn around, i think even a red squad is in the same boat, unless you want more than one that is.

Anyway, I don't think you are entirely right in that statement. There is always the clever boy or girl who will throw down the shackles of "meta" and succeed when everyone said it could not be done.

EDIT; And what engine 25 said.

I certainly wouldn't say X-wings are obsolete. Their strengths are simply different than they were in earlier waves. They still have some of the best unique pilots on the table, thanks in no small part to the Rebel Transport. Also, astromechs continue to be among the most versatile of upgrade options available. X-wings can perform well in groups, but not so much in groups of only X-wings anymore. For example, at the Georgia Regional I performed well above my expectation and personal skill. I got 17th out of 60, which is great by no means but far better than I expected to perform. I played a Rebel Swarm, BXXZZZ. The two Rookie Pilots were responsible for the bulk of the damage output in the list, as most opponents felt it necessary to focus the B-wing off the table first.

Some of the named X-wing pilots are still very very good, but the generics have never been as points efficient as TIE Fighters. This is certainly demonstrated out in the Regionals / Nationals.

BXXZZZ is a good example of a ship doing well because of the specific point cap of 100 points, and getting more ships is always better. Previously this build was BXXYY. Nobody would say that a naked Y is really effective, but it worked in that list because overall the squad itself is very points efficient. The same could be said of the X's in the new BXXZZZ squad. We should continue to see more ships come along that slowly eat away at the remaining generic X-wing usage. Next up could be Green + PtL + VI + Refit also at 21 points, who knows.

Interestingly, the X-wings should be target #1 in that list. They are the glass cannons. B-wings do the same damage but are more durable, so your opponents should have been going after the X's first. Target Priority 101.

I certainly wouldn't say X-wings are obsolete. Their strengths are simply different than they were in earlier waves. They still have some of the best unique pilots on the table, thanks in no small part to the Rebel Transport. Also, astromechs continue to be among the most versatile of upgrade options available. X-wings can perform well in groups, but not so much in groups of only X-wings anymore. For example, at the Georgia Regional I performed well above my expectation and personal skill. I got 17th out of 60, which is great by no means but far better than I expected to perform. I played a Rebel Swarm, BXXZZZ. The two Rookie Pilots were responsible for the bulk of the damage output in the list, as most opponents felt it necessary to focus the B-wing off the table first.

Some of the named X-wing pilots are still very very good, but the generics have never been as points efficient as TIE Fighters. This is certainly demonstrated out in the Regionals / Nationals.

Indeed, TIE Fighters have always been the epitome of efficiency. Until the Z95 lol but point being, other ships will always lose.

Indeed, TIE Fighters have always been the epitome of efficiency. Until the Z95 lol but point being, other ships will always lose.

+ Space Cows!

Much wisdom you spaek.

X-wing cost efficiency is too low to reliably use the generics consistently. Either spend the extra point to get the B-wing's durability, or just mass Z-95s, which have the same damage output per point cost, but with much more durability.

There are things the mathematical vacuum doesn't take into account though. For instance the 4 k-turn at times gets you out of crowded areas and gets you an extra round of shooting, where-as the Z's tighter 3 k-turn more often would bump a back-line ship. The B's 2k can be a nice tight flip, but it's not even possible to k-turn behind a large-based ship. Also, the X-wing has an astromech slot, which opens up more possibilities.

X-wing cost efficiency is too low to reliably use the generics consistently. Either spend the extra point to get the B-wing's durability, or just mass Z-95s, which have the same damage output per point cost, but with much more durability.

There are things the mathematical vacuum doesn't take into account though. For instance the 4 k-turn at times gets you out of crowded areas and gets you an extra round of shooting, where-as the Z's tighter 3 k-turn more often would bump a back-line ship. The B's 2k can be a nice tight flip, but it's not even possible to k-turn behind a large-based ship. Also, the X-wing has an astromech slot, which opens up more possibilities.

True, I was only looking at the straight-up jousting values.

But, I do have a fairly rigorous and consistent method of weighting the impact of the dial, actions, and available upgrades as well, which predicts that it is still generally not enough to justify the cost of the generic X-wings if other options are available. I generally come to the same conclusion from play experience.

X-wing cost efficiency is too low to reliably use the generics consistently. Either spend the extra point to get the B-wing's durability, or just mass Z-95s, which have the same damage output per point cost, but with much more durability.

I agree with this completely. The x-wing more than any other ship, I feel (besides the Advanced) is kind of hosed as the game goes on without some kind of title or modification for it. I'm not sure why, but FFG seems to make astromechs that are pretty bad for the points compared with other things like systems and such. The X-wing suffers from lack of having upgrades and actions to make up for it's inefficiency.

To be fair, not many ships do well with the generics. For example, looking at the 18 Regionals winners, the only generics that were used by the winners were TIE Fighters, B-wings, and Z-95's.

If you look at overall placement effectiveness outside of just the winners, then you also need to add the Lambda Shuttle and Y-wing to this short list. Outside of those 5 ships, generics historically underperform. The Y-wing of course always has the Ion Cannon Turret.

The generic X-wing pilots are fairly average ships, or possibly even slightly below average. You could probably get away with them costing 20 and 22 points, except that a 5 X-wing squad would be brutally efficient, because you're spending points on nothing but ships. It would be interesting to playtest 5 Rookies vs. a 7-TIE Howlrunner Swarm though, or against some of the newer Fat Han or Whisper builds.

But this is a thread about 4X builds, so I digress.

To be fair, not many ships do well with the generics. For example, looking at the 18 Regionals winners, the only generics that were used by the winners were TIE Fighters, B-wings, and Z-95's.

If you look at overall placement effectiveness outside of just the winners, then you also need to add the Lambda Shuttle and Y-wing to this short list. Outside of those 5 ships, generics historically underperform. The Y-wing of course always has the Ion Cannon Turret.

The generic X-wing pilots are fairly average ships, or possibly even slightly below average. You could probably get away with them costing 20 and 22 points, except that a 5 X-wing squad would be brutally efficient, because you're spending points on nothing but ships. It would be interesting to playtest 5 Rookies vs. a 7-TIE Howlrunner Swarm though, or against some of the newer Fat Han or Whisper builds.

But this is a thread about 4X builds, so I digress.

I think I will try the XXXXX against a Howlrunner Swarm and let you know

To be fair, not many ships do well with the generics. For example, looking at the 18 Regionals winners, the only generics that were used by the winners were TIE Fighters, B-wings, and Z-95's.

If you look at overall placement effectiveness outside of just the winners, then you also need to add the Lambda Shuttle and Y-wing to this short list. Outside of those 5 ships, generics historically underperform. The Y-wing of course always has the Ion Cannon Turret.

The generic X-wing pilots are fairly average ships, or possibly even slightly below average. You could probably get away with them costing 20 and 22 points, except that a 5 X-wing squad would be brutally efficient, because you're spending points on nothing but ships. It would be interesting to playtest 5 Rookies vs. a 7-TIE Howlrunner Swarm though, or against some of the newer Fat Han or Whisper builds.

But this is a thread about 4X builds, so I digress.

I think I will try the XXXXX against a Howlrunner Swarm and let you know

If you want it to be really fair, you should probably make sure to splash in some PS3+ in there, so the Swarm doesn't blatantly lose the PS bid.

5 Rookie X-wings @ 20 points each is 100 points.

Howlrunner + 6 Academies is only 90 points. You want some upgrades that are good but not unbalancing one way or the other in this case.

Something like:

Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics

Dark Curse

Backstabber

4x Academy Pilot

Or

Howlrunner + Determination + Hull Upgrade

Dark Curse / Backstabber

2x Obsidian Squadron Pilots

3x Academy Pilots

Edit: the 2nd list is probably the most fair for this case. Half the other 6 TIEs are above the X-wing PS, and half are below. And Howlrunner is slightly more durable, which is standard operating procedure.

I was quite excited to play the following list, as I could not get my transport for a while after it released. I was, however disappointed. I went 1-5 with this lost while prepping for regionals, so I switched to a rebel swarm. It's fun, but it's much more defensively weak than I thought.

Hobbie Klivian

++R3A2

Biggs

Tarn Mison

++R7 Astromech

Red Squadron

The best part of it I'd that it buys you extra rounds late game because if Tarn with R7. Early on he's not a threat and late game they don't want to waste valuable attacks on him. He is remarkable durable 1v1 or 1v2.

I've been looking at this one myself. I really want to give Hobbie a try, the stress mechanic sounds like fun. I'm wondering if he's better off paired up with Dutch, though...