Hey guys. I know there have been threads like this before, but there hasn't been one in a while. I was interested to get people's opinion on the issue. First, just let me give you a bit of background.

So, I'm hopefully going to be getting a job soon (my first ever, yay!) and I've been incentivising myself by thinking about all the juicy stuff I'll be able to afford with those first few paychecks. I've been playing X-Wing for a while now, and have almost all the models (although I still need duplicates of some I already have), so I should be able to get 'up to date' once I have my job. From there, it will simply be a question of buying new releases as they come out. So that reduction in cost and my extra disposable income should hopefully be enough to finance another game system; and I was thinking about Attack Wing. One of the things putting me off before was the sheer volume of ships available, and the fact I wouldn't be able to afford all of them, but that should be less of an issue now.

Now, I'm a huge fan of both Star Wars and Star Trek. I love them both, although if I had to choose, I may lean ever so slightly towards Trek. When I went to pick up the X-Wing starter set, I ummed and ahhed about whether to start collecting X-Wing or Attack Wing. In the end though, I went with X-Wing for a few reasons:

- My research online beforehand indicated that X-Wing was a more solid, better designed/balanced game, and had slightly better quality components.

- The store owner said basically the same thing when I talked with him about it, and he also said that X-Wing tended to have more players (at least around where I live).

- The X-Wing miniatures look nicer; better paintjobs and more to scale.

- I knew that I would want to get my friends into whichever game I picked, so I'd have some people to play with, and they much prefer Star Wars.

I was left with the impression that Attack Wing was basically a slightly worse, cheaper (in terms of quality, not price) knock-off of X-Wing, so I decided to go with X-Wing. I don't regret that decision at all, and I would make the same choice again, but my question is, now that I have the potential to be able to afford to play both; is it worth it?

I have done some more research, and it seems like I may have been a bit unfair to Attack Wing. The models are definitely lower quality, but having looked at them some more, they really aren't that bad. I'm not a miniatures gamer by trade, so I don't mind too much if the paintjob isn't 100% perfect. I'm used to board games, where usually, the pieces are just abstract wooden cubes , so any detail is an improvement. The scale bothers me a bit more, but it doesn't seem too off. Lots of Trek ships don't have a rigidly defined size, and you don't often see them side by side in the show, so it's not too hard to accept the sizes as portrayed in the game.

Also, having seen some more detailed reviews that go over the mechanical differences, I have to say that I like the look of the additions/changes made in Attack Wing. They certainly wouldn't suit a Star Wars game, but in a Trek game, I think they make sense and add to the theme. I've read that the flightpath system actually works okay for capital ships, given these additions, so it seems like the game is at least fun to play, and has a bit of a different feel to X-Wing. I also love the sheer number and variety of ships. Having lots of different factions is awesome, and really suits a Trek setting.

I guess my last major concern would be balance. I've heard lots of horror stories about WizKids atrocious game balancing, power creep, event exclusives etc. Now, I wouldn't be looking to play Attack Wing at all competitively, so it doesn't bother me too much if you need x exclusive captain to build y broken tournament list, because I wouldn't be looking to do that. It is a problem though if certain ships or cards are just broken for their cost, because that will impact casual play just as much. Then again, I guess there are always house rules for that kind of thing.

Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to lay out all the different things I've considered. I'd be interested in hearing from people who have played both games. This isn't a question of which game is better, or which one I should play, this is asking if it's worth getting into Attack Wing when you already play X-Wing. Ultimately, X-Wing is so awesome that even a slightly worse version of it would still be good, right?

Thanks for taking the time to read

If your basic question is 'should I do both?', follow your heart. Nobody can say what's best for you but you.

If your question is 'is Attack Wing worth playing?', that's a question that might be better asked on another forum.

The biggest problem I've heard in conjunction with Attack Wing is that the cost system is horribly unbalanced. They basically took the stats, added them, then multiplied by 2. No consideration whatsoever was given to the special abilities of the ships and crew, so you can have plenty of occasions where a "balanced" game can become a clusterfrack because of the point system. There is probably a house rule or list of adjusted values out there that helps to balance the points, but as it is, I wouldn't play it.

Call me spoiled by X-wing's beautifully balanced gameplay, but I just do NOT like games unless they are very well balanced. I don't want to feel like I lost just because the other guy was able to put together a fleet that, while at the same point cost, was FAR better than mine right off the bat. I want to leave the game knowing that it was the pilot/commander's skills that decided the game.

As you've mentioned, the models are also lackluster. This is a big point for me, because I'm spending money on these things and they better look like they're worth the price. When I can buy Star Trek Micro Machines on eBay for half the cost that look twice as good, it makes me feel like Wizkids just didn't care. Even Star Wars Starship Battles had better looking minis than Attack Wing, and that just bugs the crap out of me.

It's not worth getting into Attack Wing even if you didn't play X-wing. It's badly made, developed, balanced and distributed. By which I mean the models are of terrible quality, it's rushed and game balance doesn't exist (they cost based on stats only, so the Z-95 and the TIE phantom would share a point cost) and they've a habit of releasing very powerful things at conventions where the rest of the world can't get them. Imagine if Rebel Aces was GenCon exclusive.

If you're used to the care and attention FFG gives to X-wing and it's players, Attack Wing is going to be an awful shock as you look down at all the money you just wasted and all the stuff you just bought that was completely invalidated by the next release.

Considering Armada, what would you say then?

Even with your new job, you may find it drains your funds trying to support two miniature wargames at the same time. I'm having a hard time picking up all the expansions coming out for just X-wing, and I've been steadily employed for over 16 years!

Considering Armada, what would you say then?

Armada looks good. Haven't heard much from the Gencon demo but given how much X-Wing changed for the better I wouldn't worry too much. It's easy to read these forums and think everyone is an FFG fanboy, but there is a solid history of good games at reasonable prices. I told a store owner about that Imperial Assault thing and all I had to say was "the guys that make Descent are doing a Star Wars version" and he decided to order a lot of it.

Actually, Descent might be worth investigating. Never played it myself but I hear only good things.

I think you would be better off staying away from attack wing. I have played both Attack wing and X-wing and IMHO X-wing is a far superior game in all respects. Attack wing is fun in a very casual setting or if you like to run scenarios. Its main problem is as you were worried about game balance. I can explain it very simply if you want to play some of the "smaller ships" like the Reliant or the dominion attack ship and you happen to face a ship with a cloak good luck I have played many times but when you have 2-4 attack dice against a ship that can roll 6+ defense dice it is very difficult to hit them. In addition with the new borg and their straight movement(no banks or turns they just move in straight lines) which would be fine if they had fire arcs, but nope 360 deg fire arcs with usually 6 or more attack dice. Now granted very thematic, but horribly un balanced, IMHO anyway.

Haven't played it but if you look around the web there's alot of people unhappy with how wizkidz is running it, and apparently Borg are massively OP because they have the highest attack and 360 movement and fire arcs.

Scale and quality of models put me off I don't regret going with x-wing instead.

I am going to play both sides of the fence sort of...

What WonderWAAAGH said for sure.

Also... like what everyone else said, WizKids' game is good in theory and has a pretty big player base, but it is poorly produced and has horrible balance.

That said,

Wizkids show up and do more promos than any miniatures game company. literally every week there is an official Attack Wing tourney at my FLGS and the local Wizkids rep is on hand with swag every time.

Hey guys, thanks for the replies. I'm also planning on posting a similar version of this thread on the Attack Wing forum. Should be interesting to see how different the response is

Yeah, balance is my main concern. I would be playing strictly casual, probably mostly with just my family (like I said, my friends aren't into Trek, but all my family are); so in that way I would be treating it almost more like a board game than a miniatures game. So maybe balance wouldn't be such an issue, as we'd probably be doing mostly scenarios and no one would be trying to push for a broken list. Still, it's worth knowing about. The Borg sound cool, but it's easy to see how that could be broken.

As for money, well, since I wouldn't be trying to remain 'competitive' there'd be no rush to get all the ships and keep up to date with releases. I could just buy it at whatever pace was sustainable.

Considering Armada, what would you say then?

I'm definitely planning on getting Armada too. I know, I'm a sucker for space combat games, and it will leave me bankrupt I get the impression though that Armada will be very different to both X-Wing and Attack Wing.

Do you enjoy Star Trek?

I play attack wing. But not as zealously as x wing, and only buy ships here and there that interest me... So in that sense it is way cheaper. If you like trek, go for it. If you're not big into trek... Skip it.

If you are a fan of both IPs, then play both games.

If you are a fan of the Flight Path System, then play both games.

Both X-Wing and Attack Wing represent their realms well. X-Wing does a good job portraying a dog fight of small, elusive ships with one pilot using smaller weapons. Attack Wing does a good job portraying a shoot out of large, less-maneuverable ships with extended crew using big weapons and other technology.

I find both rewarding.

Forget game issues, etc... If you don't have the gamer base to play then why bother? You appear to have the idea that with your job you will now have all the cash for everything shiny and new. You will find that money does not go as far as you thought and you realize that more when it is money you earned.

Save that extra cash for a car, dates, school, etc..

It's not worth getting into Attack Wing even if you didn't play X-wing. It's badly made, developed, balanced and distributed. By which I mean the models are of terrible quality, it's rushed and game balance doesn't exist (they cost based on stats only, so the Z-95 and the TIE phantom would share a point cost) and they've a habit of releasing very powerful things at conventions where the rest of the world can't get them. Imagine if Rebel Aces was GenCon exclusive.

Oh wow. Attack Wing actually sounds more like Heroclix than X-wing. Especially with the balance issues and the Con-only exclusives.

That's a shame, because it's huge where I am. It's actually crowding out X-Wing at my FLGS.

You also have to keep in mind the MONTHLY releases they have now. Good luck keeping up.

I didn't read all of the replies, but here are my thoughts. I'm simply not a fan of the rare and limited nature of STAW. Having to win tournaments to get ships/cards that can't be obtained any where else is off putting. Couple that with reports that some tournaments aren't advertised and the prizes are simply pocketed by scheming TOs.

Then there is the GenCon thing. I'd read a thread or two over on BGG and see if this is a company you want to do business with. I wasn't there but the accounts are appalling. Looking at the two companies it seems like night and day.

I would say stick to X-Wing.

Between X-Wing and Armada I would say there is enough star ship deliciousness coming our way.

I say this as a happy Star Trek fan, but Star Wars will always be my fave.

Being a big Star Trek fan, I looked at Attack Wing long before X-Wing. Availability in New Zealand was a limiting factor, but when I did some more research and found the quality of the models to be less than satisfactory, that decided it in X-Wing's favour for me.

I've been a wargamer for more than 35 years, and model scale in a game means a lot to me. Attack Wing ignores model scales entirely. It's like they're all just designed to fit in the same blister and the size of the ship has no direct correlation to the scale of the model. The USS Defiant model is almost the same size as the Enterprise-D. Just didn't work for me.

And even if I could get past the scale issue, the quality of the plastic and paint jobs were sub-par. The rules are virtually identical, mechanic wise, but the superior quality and consistent scale of X-Wing miniatures makes it a much better buy.

I don't own attack wing but I've played it quite a bit. Is X-wing better. Yes. Especially in a simple dogfight. Attack Wing has a big advantage in OP variety and missions. There is just more variety in gameplay. Now only about a third of the missions are worth playing, but some of them are really fun. Honestly I wish the X Wing official missions got more play. It's also much better suited to 3 or more players in one game. Hopefully mission control will bring some of this to X-wing. It will never be as balanced or elegant as X-wing, and the upgrade combo culture isn't really my style, but it is worth playing. It is a VERY different game. Try and play one like the other and you will lose.

they cost based on stats only, so the Z-95 and the TIE phantom would share a point cost.

This is the real problem with the game.

I was a fan of Attack Wing when it first came out. Having played X-Wing for so long I went to and won 5 of the 6 dominion war tournaments and walked away with the big DS9 prize. The ships weren't great, but that didn't bother me like it did some others. Prize support support was amazing, and probably kept me going to the first six tournaments when I otherwise might have stopped sooner. But, in the end game was no where near as fun as X-Wing given all of the balance issues others have mentioned. There were also tons of completely useless cards and ships. So, I've since stopped playing altogether.

Focus on X-Wing. If you have extra cash save it or buy the X-Wing ships you want or an occasional other board game. Lots of better options out their than Attack Wing.

I don't doubt it has better missions but good as they are I'd still be wary after hearing what the Borg entail, that would of been my faction but I oppose playing OP stuff I want my wins to be from skill.

Hey guys, thanks for the replies. I'm also planning on posting a similar version of this thread on the Attack Wing forum. Should be interesting to see how different the response is

Yeah, balance is my main concern. I would be playing strictly casual, probably mostly with just my family (like I said, my friends aren't into Trek, but all my family are); so in that way I would be treating it almost more like a board game than a miniatures game. So maybe balance wouldn't be such an issue, as we'd probably be doing mostly scenarios and no one would be trying to push for a broken list. Still, it's worth knowing about. The Borg sound cool, but it's easy to see how that could be broken.

As for money, well, since I wouldn't be trying to remain 'competitive' there'd be no rush to get all the ships and keep up to date with releases. I could just buy it at whatever pace was sustainable.

If your not going to play with people who "Min/Max" then the system is fine. Its when you get into situations where you have people NEEDING to win that the problems creep in. If you or your family members choose to play the Riker captain just cause you like Riker then the game will have pretty much zero issues. As said its just when you start looking at making the ships "efficient" that balance is stuffed in a brown paper bag, light on fire, and thrown out a car window going 80 miles an hour.

I don't doubt it has better missions but good as they are I'd still be wary after hearing what the Borg entail, that would of been my faction but I oppose playing OP stuff I want my wins to be from skill.

Borg are really only OP when you play cross faction, Im a Borg player for note. Are they still really good solo? Yes, but there are ways to handle them if they only have access to Borg cards. The BIGGEST problems with AW are 1) they are handling a lot of it like Heroclix and 2) they didnt take the ships movement, fire arc, or special abilities into account. One of the bigger issues is Resources, for those that dont know this is a item you can add to your fleet/ship for x points and gain x benefits. While this sounds like just another upgrade it is FAR more unbalancing, an example of this are the Flagship cards. One Flagship will add +1 to three seperate stats, provide an ability to your other ships, and add two more upgrade slots to a ship, all of this for only 10 points. Considering ships arnt point balanced in the first place adding this on only increases the inbalance.

As for them not coming up with a good points formula take a look at my faction, the Borg, we will use the first Borg vessel as an example the Borg Sphere. Its stats are Great for AW, 6-0-7-6. Using their point formula it is roughly 38 points before upgrades, problem is there are three things that break this. 1) Borg move in straight lines. What this means is instead of turning left I rotate my cube 90 degrees to the left and move it in a straight line. This makes not hitting things and getting into ones rear very very easy. 2) All Borg ships, except for the Soong, have a 360 degree firing arc. You combine this with the movement and its almost impossible to keep shots on a Borg ship and you are NEVER getting out of their shots. 3) The named Sphere, 4270, gets an additional shield, making it 6-0-7-7, and the ability to target 2 ships when it attacks for a whoping 2 point increase.

Truth be told in all if this game didnt have the Star Trek name on it it would of died a horrible death long long ago. The things that keep it going is its OP missions, the fluffy cards you get in some ships,like getting a Jack Crusher discard in the Stargazer, and the general lore of Star Trek. Otherwise it is just a very horribly designed and managed space ship game.