The lore specifically states the X1 was to replace the TIE with a ship that could hold it's own against an X-wing, and that it was never mass produced because the Interceptor was deemed a better investment.
I'm not saying your wrong about that im saying they did not use that as a reason to make the tie-adv more expansive. The number add up if you compare to a x-wing
But Rebels can't use S&V y-wings.
They can, however, use the new turret, the new Y-wing torpedo mod (looks like it swaps out Torpedo slots for Bomb slots) and the new Y-wing title.
I'll request that someone needs to balance the lore then...
-Cal
The problem i have is that the advanced is weaker than the tie interceptor in every way accept shields and hull
NO IT ISN'T.
It is STRONGER in every way, except cost and -1 attack dice. WHICH IS WHY IT'S LESS EFFECTIVE.
less effective =/= weaker.
AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH.
Repeat after me:
The TIE Advanced should not be more common and effective that the Interceptor.
The TIE Advanced should not be more common and effective that the Interceptor.
The TIE Advanced should not be more common and effective that the Interceptor.
The TIE Advanced should not be more common and effective that the Interceptor.
The TIE Advanced should not be more common and effective that the Interceptor.
The TIE Advanced should not be more common and effective that the Interceptor.
The TIE Advanced should not be more common and effective that the Interceptor.
THE TIE ADVANCED IS SUPPOSED TO BE A WORSE CHOICE THAN AN INTERCEPTOR.
Um ‘stronger in every way’ is completely false
Advanced has 2 shields to the Interceptors 0, that it, that is the only real thing the Advanced has over the interceptor. Of course it also has the missile slot and the target lock action, with the missile slot almost never competitively played and target lock is not as valuable if you compare Targeting computer (2 points) to Engine upgrade (4 Points) in the boost option on the interceptor.
The interceptor has a much better dial with nearly twice as many greens (7 vs. 4) 2 different K-turn options vs. 1 on the advanced, it has the much revered 1 turn and the advanced doesn’t.
The difference between 2 and 3 attack has been discussed ad-nauseum and suffice to say is a significant advantage of the interceptor over the advanced.
Also the fact that Mathwingers fairly consistently agree that the advanced is overpriced by as much as 4 points compound the fact that the Intercepter is stronger than the Advanced.
There is no Lore reason to boost the price of the Tie-Adv if you calculate the point they add up. The only problem whith it is that you never feel like paying 22 point and more fore 2 att dice. In my opinion they shoud flip ther att and def and let it be the Imperial x-wing it should. Or create a ship modification card to allow that.
Ex:
Tie advance X1
action: Transfer a def dice for a att dice to a max of 3 att
action: Transfer a att dice for a def dice to a max of 3 def
2pts
that's Darth Vader with expose i think but i would like that as an modification in the future for tie-a only.
But Rebels can't use S&V y-wings.
They can, however, use the new turret, the new Y-wing torpedo mod (looks like it swaps out Torpedo slots for Bomb slots) and the new Y-wing title.
Is that a wish or reality. If reality nvm about y-wing needing love.
So...all this TIE advanced hate...
...it hurts me right in the Lore.
The TIE Advanced was meant to be a better TIE. It is. It has shields AND missile capacity. The whole reason it wasn't adopted was EXPENSE. So instead they went with the TIE Interceptor. You know, because they could field MORE OF THEM than the Advanced. JUST LIKE IN THE GAME.
GUYS! The TIE Advanced is for this game EXACTLY what the 'real' TIE Advanced was in the lore. An expensive novelty that isn't as effective as larger numbers of less superior craft. It is the single more accurately represented gaming piece in the history of the universe. STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT IT.
And this is a good basis to balance a tabletop miniatures game from? The Defender is also just "an interceptor, but better shields and missile capacity", yet the increased costs (translated into the game through higher squad points value) are balanced enough that they show up constantly in lists. Strangely, the TIE Advanced does not - this either means that the squad points are not correct or that people simply aren't fielding them 'just because'.
In any regard, the squad points values for a game should be balanced around ship capability, not because of how available a ship was in the background. If they really wanted to ensure that the TIE Advanced was seen on the tabletop rarely owing to the fact that only a few squadrons were ever outfitted with them, they could have easily made all the pilots Unique, or even added the little (•) symbol next to 'TIE Advanced' on the ship cards.
The current developers themselves, even, have said that fans of the TIE Advanced should "have faith" (or words thereof) when discussing the possibility of "fixing" the older ships like A-Wing and the Advanced.
So while it's true that the rarity of the TIE Advanced currently mirrors its rarity in the Star Wars universe, it is not for the correct reasons. It was a ship that matched the Interceptor's maneuverability (not modeled in the game rules), but lacked its firepower, backed up by a hyperdrive (also not modeled in the game rules). The few TIE Advanceds produced for the Empire were issued to elite pilots, implying that it was actually a ship that you wanted on the field. In game, it is a ship that handicaps the pilots who fly them.
Do not dismiss the Advance's ability to not be one shot, when compared to the Interceptor. I have seen it far too many times against Soontir Fel.
Also, whatever the fix to the Advance will be, I am going to say it is going to be a bit more creative than a way to add an attack die.
But Rebels can't use S&V y-wings.
They can, however, use the new turret, the new Y-wing torpedo mod (looks like it swaps out Torpedo slots for Bomb slots) and the new Y-wing title.
Is that a wish or reality. If reality nvm about y-wing needing love.
Thats weird for me beacus the Y-wing in my group ave all the love he need. Im still happy to see it in the S&V uniform.
Also, whatever the fix to the Advance will be, I am going to say it is going to be a bit more creative than a way to add an attack die.
I would addore to be suprise.
The other thing whit the tie-a is the X factor whitch Vader ave the X1 and this should ave ben a Title card (none unique). Beacus the Advance by it self can be all right like it is but its stupid to ave a other ship (the Tie-Advance X1) whit the same stat.
My money is that if they correct the Tie-Adv in any way is whit that in mind. X1, X2, X3...
What do you think?
I have watched the first film hundreds of times, and Vader's TIE seems to have some kind of rapid fire function the other TIE's don't have. Watch it again and look for it. He locks on, then unleashes a stream of hot laser death that seems to blow through a Y-Wing's shields in one salvo. Seems pretty powerful to me.
Lucas only wanted Vader's TIE to look different so we knew which one he was flying, decades later we have this mess...
The Advanced is actually quite good at a lot of things. It can stay alive for a long time (Vader especially), deliver ordinance, and beat most rebel ships one on one. The problem is that it is not good for X-Wing's normal win condition--especially in times tourney play. Run it in scenarios that value those things and it's okay time will increase. It is a well balanced ship that happens to do things the game doesn't value.
That's interesting :-) BaronFel. I'm not completely sold but I've never heard that angle before :-)
Before we got the bombers, I would use the TIE-A as an ordnance carrier for scenarios. Works just fine. Definitely would like to see a points reduction though.
So your idea of "working fine" is an overpriced ship that isnt worth the pts, carrying ordnance that is overpriced and isnt worth its points?
Before we got the bombers, I would use the TIE-A as an ordnance carrier for scenarios. Works just fine. Definitely would like to see a points reduction though.
So your idea of "working fine" is an overpriced ship that isnt worth the pts, carrying ordnance that is overpriced and isnt worth its points?
Just surprise here; You realy think Cluster Missile is too expensive?
Just surprise here; You realy think Cluster Missile is too expensive?Before we got the bombers, I would use the TIE-A as an ordnance carrier for scenarios. Works just fine. Definitely would like to see a points reduction though.
So your idea of "working fine" is an overpriced ship that isnt worth the pts, carrying ordnance that is overpriced and isnt worth its points?
Ordnance in general is overpriced. Yes, even cluster missiles. They are unreliable and not worth the points over other upgrades that are both more reliable and can be used more then once.
Aside from the new stuff like flechette torps, assault missiles are really the only one worth considering. And more so for the psychological effect then its actually damage dealing potential.
Just surprise here; You realy think Cluster Missile is too expensive?
Before we got the bombers, I would use the TIE-A as an ordnance carrier for scenarios. Works just fine. Definitely would like to see a points reduction though.
So your idea of "working fine" is an overpriced ship that isnt worth the pts, carrying ordnance that is overpriced and isnt worth its points?
Ordnance in general is overpriced. Yes, even cluster missiles. They are unreliable and not worth the points over other upgrades that are both more reliable and can be used more then once.
Aside from the new stuff like flechette torps, assault missiles are really the only one worth considering. And more so for the psychological effect then its actually damage dealing potential.
Yes probably right but it`s less a problem since munition failsafe.
The Advanced is actually quite good at a lot of things. It can stay alive for a long time (Vader especially), deliver ordinance, and beat most rebel ships one on one. The problem is that it is not good for X-Wing's normal win condition--especially in times tourney play. Run it in scenarios that value those things and it's okay time will increase. It is a well balanced ship that happens to do things the game doesn't value.
That's interesting :-) BaronFel. I'm not completely sold but I've never heard that angle before :-)
I've said it often enough that I had assumed it was getting annoying. 
As he said, the fundamental problem with the TIE Advanced is that it's a tank in a game that doesn't particularly value defense. In terms of defensive efficiency, it's one of the best ships in the game (which, incidentally, is why it shouldn't get an A-wing style cost trim). But in terms of offensive efficiency it's one of the weakest; the only ships with 2 Attack that are more expensive are the YT-2400 and Outer Rim Smuggler, both of which have turrets.
What it needs, assuming a straight offensive buff isn't in the cards, is a way to really tank--something that says to your opponent "hey, I'm just going to get better and better until you pay attention to me". That would mean your investment in its agility and hit points isn't wasted.
Yes probably right but it`s less a problem since munition failsafe.Ordnance in general is overpriced. Yes, even cluster missiles. They are unreliable and not worth the points over other upgrades that are both more reliable and can be used more then once.
Aside from the new stuff like flechette torps, assault missiles are really the only one worth considering. And more so for the psychological effect then its actually damage dealing potential.
As a side note, Munitions Failsafe isn't a very good choice for Cluster Missiles in particular, since you have to miss with both attacks in order to trigger the Failsafe.
There is no Lore reason to boost the price of the Tie-Adv if you calculate the point they add up. The only problem whith it is that you never feel like paying 22 point and more fore 2 att dice. In my opinion they shoud flip ther att and def and let it be the Imperial x-wing it should. Or create a ship modification card to allow that.
Ex:
Tie advance X1
action: Transfer a def dice for a att dice to a max of 3 att
action: Transfer a att dice for a def dice to a max of 3 def
2pts
You'll need to do some math to comprehensively prove it, but that won't work. At best you're turning it into an X-wing without an action. And generic X-wings are already getting phased out in favor of more cost efficient Z-95s and B-wings.
Also the fact that Mathwingers fairly consistently agree that the advanced is overpriced by as much as 4 points compound the fact that the Intercepter is stronger than the Advanced.
I have been changing my MathWing scripts to calculate durability based on the average number of shots required to kill a ship, rather than simply using the average damage numbers. I also changed the curve fit so that more expensive ships are more accurately worth more points. However, unfortunately for more expensive ships, the TIE Fighter gets a much larger boost from the former than large ships get a boost from the latter, making cheap ships look even better than before.
Long story short, I'm coming up with a value of 15.5 points at PS1 for the TIE Advanced. So using those numbers it is overcosted by 4.5 points vs my earlier calculations of 4 points.
Related, I'll be making a neat MathWing post with graphs sometime soon, showing the probability distribution of number of shots required to destroy all the stat lines.
The ideal fix for the Advanced, IMO, would be to turn it into a Command Ship modelled on the HWK-290. If it could hand out actions, rerolls, or possibly boosts (maybe of defense die?) it would become a.) a force multiplier and b.) a target priority. Its defense would then be valuable and it could contribute something offensively. It would also avoid turning into just another Defender or Interceptor. The Lambda would still be tougher and have the ability to take crew, so I don't think this would make it obsolete either.
But Rebels can't use S&V y-wings.
They can, however, use the new turret, the new Y-wing torpedo mod (looks like it swaps out Torpedo slots for Bomb slots) and the new Y-wing title.
I hope that they something like that for the Tie Bomber!! There should be a Tie Bomber Make over.
But Rebels can't use S&V y-wings.
They can, however, use the new turret, the new Y-wing torpedo mod (looks like it swaps out Torpedo slots for Bomb slots) and the new Y-wing title.
I hope that they something like that for the Tie Bomber!! There should be a Tie Bomber Make over.
TIE Bombers don't need a makeover; there's nothing wrong with them except that they're ordnance carriers in a game where ordnance is often inefficient. That means they already get better and better with every new torpedo and missile (and, presumably, bomb) we get.
give the advanced a systems slot. i do no think we should add attack dice. Some new pilots might also be good. I like the idea of a lando like action.
As a side note, Munitions Failsafe isn't a very good choice for Cluster Missiles in particular, since you have to miss with both attacks in order to trigger the Failsafe.
That go whitout saying.
There is no Lore reason to boost the price of the Tie-Adv if you calculate the point they add up. The only problem whith it is that you never feel like paying 22 point and more fore 2 att dice. In my opinion they shoud flip ther att and def and let it be the Imperial x-wing it should. Or create a ship modification card to allow that.
Ex:
Tie advance X1
action: Transfer a def dice for a att dice to a max of 3 att
action: Transfer a att dice for a def dice to a max of 3 def
2pts
You'll need to do some math to comprehensively prove it, but that won't work. At best you're turning it into an X-wing without an action. And generic X-wings are already getting phased out in favor of more cost efficient Z-95s and B-wings.
I wont do the math but they did http://cardcreator.atelierdufaucon.com/ Its in french but if your geek enought you wont ave a proble. Its a neat tool and the data base is awsome. Not perfect, beacus it clock the Storm Squadron Pilot at 21 and Vader at 28 (if you give 3 point for its power). Maybe FFG say a 5 straight is worth 1 point more than a 1 straight so Vader is flush and Storm 1 short.
The point is I`m prety shure they did not boost the coste only for LORE effect. "The ship shuld not be ove use cuse its rare and prototypy, gna, gna gna"
Its a busness they want evry ship to be use as much as possible. Who ever shot first they dont give a crap.
