"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last..."

Its generally rumored/ acknowledged that the advanced needs attention- what ideas does the community have for making it competitive or at least giving it a niche?

My pick would be either to let it take an illicit upgrade* (perhaps through a unique and/or one point "Experimental Design" title) or else create a tie avenger title that substantially reduces its cost, but only for pilot skill LESS than 9 (plus create some new pilot cards with the customary interesting pilot abilities).

What would others like to see? I think its testament to good game design that most of the wave one ships are still valid at all.

There is no real need for every ship to be competitive, but it would still be fun to see the advanced fly again.

*I of course realize that this is a bit of a shot in the dark and might complicate balancing upgrades for SV, but its interesting right?

Illicit? Illicit upgrades are by definition outlawed under Imperial rule, and the TIE advanced is an Imperial ship.

The +1 attack Avenger card's been suggested a few times although I don't see why you'd disbar Vader, he's just as overcosted as the others. I think FFG has something clever up their sleeves though.

There is no real need for every ship to be competitive

Of course there is, it's called balance.

I don't think you'll see Illicit upgrades for it. But there could be some new titles in the works. Might even see something like a title that allows a free missile, or a free missile for TIE Adv only. Who knows. Either way, the main complaint has always been you don't get much value for the points. The most obvious remedy would be some sort of free or really cheap upgrade.

There is no real need for every ship to be competitive, but it would still be fun to see the advanced fly again.

Yes! Yes, there is a need to make every ship competitive. It's called great design and game balance!

How can there be so many threads about fixing the TIE-Advanced??? Use the search function, or look on the current page and see that this gets rehashed to death every single week...

FFG have all but said that there will be a fix for the TIE-Advanced and it may come in the form of a title. Watch the Gencon interview with Davy and Brooks.

There's no need to provide homebrew solutions when all we have to do is patiently wait.

Do we really need more than one of these threads at a time, all the time?

Oh look, this again!

Well, I admit I haven't kept up with all the threads all the time but most seem to just be complaints absent positive suggestions/ restating the case (its made guys!) that the advanced isn't cutting it. So what would you do?

Also illicit technology can be seen lore-wise as illegal stuff for scum and unique innovations for the Empire.

The reason I suggest possible illicit upgrades is that it would make the advanced unique for the imperials and grant a range of different advanced builds while a specific ability tied to a title (other than a price reduction which would be the most straight forward and boring option) would either not work or else mean that all advanced worked only to use that ability.

Apologies if you're sick of this debate, but I'm new to the question.

Is it not a waste of energy to register your disgust rather than just move on?

Ilicit seems odd to me. Why should the start using things they try to remove from existence?

I hope it's a title to change the Missile-Slot to a Cannon-Slot (costs of 1 point maybe). It would be the perfect niche for a kind of tanky ship with acceptable maneuverability. Since there are two new cannons going to be released with scum the Tie Advanced would have a role that can be added to most lists. I know the Defender can wield cannons and the shuttle can do so, too, but the shuttle isn't as agile as the advanced and the defender costs too much with a cannon (he already has 3 attack, so i don't think he needs a cannon at all).

There is no real need for every ship to be competitive, but it would still be fun to see the advanced fly again.

Yes! Yes, there is a need to make every ship competitive. It's called great design and game balance!

How can there be so many threads about fixing the TIE-Advanced??? Use the search function, or look on the current page and see that this gets rehashed to death every single week...

FFG have all but said that there will be a fix for the TIE-Advanced and it may come in the form of a title. Watch the Gencon interview with Davy and Brooks.

There's no need to provide homebrew solutions when all we have to do is patiently wait.

I agree patience. Remember because Luke wasn't patient he lost his hand and almost cost Leia, Chewie and Lando there escape

Proton rockets are probably the best "fix" for it at the moment. It's 3 agility means you get the full attack dice, while it's 5 hit points at said 3 agility means it has a good chance to survive getting into range 1 to fire them off.

I completely disagree that it will a title.

How many unique title cards have appeared in expansions for ships that have absolutely nothing to do with said expansion?

It'd be like buying a z-95 and getting a y-wing title inside.

I completely disagree that it will a title.

How many unique title cards have appeared in expansions for ships that have absolutely nothing to do with said expansion?

It'd be like buying a z-95 and getting a y-wing title inside.

Actually if you watch the interview with the designers this is what they HEAVILY hint at. I would be surprised to not see a title fix for when it shows up.

I don't think its going to be anything huge like an attack upgrade, I think its going to be a move upgrade of some sort, similar to boost

A unified Tie Advanced / Bomber Aces pack, with repainted ships, title cards, etc. Yes please.

Make it the big "this is how we fix ordnance"-pack while we're at it.

Nirvana if there's also something in there to make Defenders just a tad cheaper.

I can settle for a Tie Advanced / Defender / letsmakeordnancework pack, yes.

But honestly, I wouldn't mind a bomber pilot or two more...

I completely disagree that it will a title.

How many unique title cards have appeared in expansions for ships that have absolutely nothing to do with said expansion?

It'd be like buying a z-95 and getting a y-wing title inside.

During Team Covenant's interviews with the current designers, they specifically mentioned that that titles are a great way to fix older ships, which they said in the context of the TIE Advanced/A-Wing. It seems very likely this is how they intend to address the issue.

Simply adding a Cannon, System, or other slot seems like a really boring (and likely 'no brainer') fix to the ship.

I personally think that an interesting Title ability would be "Once per round, after performing a successful attack, you may immediately attack with your primary weapon".

Or to represent what the Advanced's real strength was over regular TIEs, the hyperdrive. Something akin to WH40k's Deep Strike ability. An upgrade that would allow the ship to skip regular deployment and enter the board from a different angle starting turn 2. The ship would still have it's regular flaws, but would be able to jump in from an angle where the opponent is weak.

Er, anyways, yes, Titles are most likely how they will handle the TIE Advanced. Maybe one comes with the Empire Huge ships hinted at in the Gen Con panel.

Why not just allow it to deploy last rather than appear on turn 2?

No, there will not be Illicit slots. That's made to be unique to Scum just like Bombs were unique to the Empire (until Scum is released) and Turrets are unique to the Rebs.

And besides, that wouldn't fix it anyway. It will be a pile of osik until either 1) It gets 3 attack or 2) It's cost is reduced by 5.

like I said earlier, I strongly feel they are not going to mess with damage out put.

its going to be a change that makes flying it fun, and challenging for both you and your opponent.

examples:

Advanced maneuverability = Action: Perform a boost using any range 2 (or 1) maneuver template. (this would include the 90 degree turn)

Advanced systems = Gain the satellite dish upgrade icon. (this itself would be huge and my favorite)

Advanced maneuverability (option 2) = After performing a barrel roll action, perform a second barrel roll and gain a stress token.

I think there is one clear reason why you will not see a system slot on the Advanced. That reason is Accuracy Corrector. It would break on the Advanced. 24 points for a PS1 ship which can evade or barrel roll every turn and still get 2 hits every turn? Yeah - I really don't see that happening.

<Note: cross post>

I think there is one clear reason why you will not see a system slot on the Advanced. That reason is Accuracy Corrector. It would break on the Advanced. 24 points for a PS1 ship which can evade or barrel roll every turn and still get 2 hits every turn? Yeah - I really don't see that happening.

<Note: cross post>

Per MajorJuggler, even the Accuracy Corrector doesn't really help a 24-point Tempest Squadron Pilot compete.

I don't feel a sensor slot will break anything, there are ships with higher attack and sensor slot and cost around the same or less.

the ewing!!!!! for crying out load, has attack 3 plus sensor slot plus droid slot for a basic pilot, then add pilot ability and pilot upgrade slot for named ships.

no, a sensor slot would be the right fix

All a sensor slot will do is force you to use Accuracy Corrector. Even if it is not enough to counteract the cost, it's clearly the best choice for that slot. Just seems like bad design.

I think there is one clear reason why you will not see a system slot on the Advanced. That reason is Accuracy Corrector. It would break on the Advanced. 24 points for a PS1 ship which can evade or barrel roll every turn and still get 2 hits every turn? Yeah - I really don't see that happening.

<Note: cross post>

Per MajorJuggler, even the Accuracy Corrector doesn't really help a 24-point Tempest Squadron Pilot compete.

I'm not sure of the assumptions MajorJuggler is using in this case. We know the Advanced is a couple of points over-costed. But the benefit of a negative points cost (which is what he himself has suggested) title to give a system upgrade would make it better.

Say it has cost -2. You can then run 4x Tempest with Accuracy Corrector and Proton Rockets. The Accuracy corrector lets you store a target lock one round, fire at range 2/3. Then the following turn focus and let rip with the Proton rocket at range 1 with a target lock to re-roll.

Alternatively put a stealth device on. Now you can shoot every turn and get 2 hits and can evade giving yourself a good chance to tank harder. Which is what the Advanced seems to do well.

(MJ's assumptions are based on comparing Accuracy Corrector to other methods of buffing attack. But we are all aware that with accuracy corrector on you are left with your action available for defence. How you value being able to always use your action for defence is kinda up to you. Possibly less useful on a PS1, but what about on say Vader with VI? Can shoot, get 2 hits and still BR/Focus/Evade. So not sure of how much I support his analysis)