...and a missile slot, and unique pilot abilities that differ from all the other pilots.
But yeah it costs too much for what it is.
Short answer: The generic TIE Advanced pilots are overcosted by about 4 points relative to its little brother the basic TIE Fighter. It pays too many points for what amounts to simply having 2 extra shields on a TIE Fighter.
For a super long MathWing answer, see here:
Darth Vader. Expose. Engine Upgrade. 37 points. Nothing the rebels can field for these points stands a chance. Anybody who dares to fly Lord Vader's ship will end up in a cloud of debris, though. As it should be.
No, Vader with Expose is not a good idea. It turns him into an X-wing with a worse dial and no pilot ability; why would you pay 33 points for that? Adding Engine Upgrade just makes it worse.
Both sides have far more effective ships for 37 points.
Also, in the star wars universe, what exactly is the tie advanced supposed to be? Isn't it just a TIE with shields in the star wars books/movies/etc. too?
Forgetting about how the tie advanced is in this game, how should it fit in the overall hierarchy of imperial ships? Less than a defender, greater than an interceptor? Is it better than a slave 1?
Vader + Proton Rockets = 32 points and a 5-Dice shot in range 1 + the ability to have a TL + Focus = a good chance to score 4-5 hits
The games developers have by now indicated quite clearly that the Tie Advanced will see some improvement. So in short, yes, it does suck. Most notably if you play with people who know how to play the game and create powerful lists.
Vader is good. Maarek has some utility when facing Huge ships. But, that is about it. As much as I enjoy Vader, I understand that he isn't super exciting.
Hmmm... reading your last line there and looking at your avatar...
Darth Vader. Expose. Engine Upgrade. 37 points. Nothing the rebels can field for these points stands a chance. Anybody who dares to fly Lord Vader's ship will end up in a cloud of debris, though. As it should be.
Really? How about just an Outer Rim Smuggler with Millennium Falcon with Gunner. That would pretty much kill Darth Vader without much effort. 3 Z95's outta do it. Couple of A Wings, TY-2400 should handle it not problem. I'm hard pressed to think of any scenario of spending 37 points as a rebel which couldn't take out Vader... pretty much anything outta do it. Its just a Tie Fighter.
Darth Vader. Expose. Engine Upgrade. 37 points. Nothing the rebels can field for these points stands a chance. Anybody who dares to fly Lord Vader's ship will end up in a cloud of debris, though. As it should be.
No, Vader with Expose is not a good idea. It turns him into an X-wing with a worse dial and no pilot ability; why would you pay 33 points for that? Adding Engine Upgrade just makes it worse.
Both sides have far more effective ships for 37 points.
I beg to differ. With barrel roll AND boost you can run rings around any X-wing, especially with PS 9. PTL without stress. No need to immelmann. You can turtle with focus and evade. You could even shoot a missile with target lock AND focus. You can shoot with target lock AND expose - with PS 9 you don't have to worry about losing an agility die.
Also, in the star wars universe, what exactly is the tie advanced supposed to be? Isn't it just a TIE with shields in the star wars books/movies/etc. too?
An advanced prototype starfighter. Things learned from it were used in the Interceptor and Bomber and further development led to the TIE Avenger and TIE Defender
Vader is good. Maarek has some utility when facing Huge ships. But, that is about it. As much as I enjoy Vader, I understand that he isn't super exciting.
Hmmm... reading your last line there and looking at your avatar...
Darth Vader. Expose. Engine Upgrade. 37 points. Nothing the rebels can field for these points stands a chance. Anybody who dares to fly Lord Vader's ship will end up in a cloud of debris, though. As it should be.
Really? How about just an Outer Rim Smuggler with Millennium Falcon with Gunner. That would pretty much kill Darth Vader without much effort. 3 Z95's outta do it. Couple of A Wings, TY-2400 should handle it not problem. I'm hard pressed to think of any scenario of spending 37 points as a rebel which couldn't take out Vader... pretty much anything outta do it. Its just a Tie Fighter.
Those pesky 360° will prevail against a single dogfighter, I give you that. 3 Z-95 might have a chance. For 37 points you don't get two A-Wings who are a match against Vader. X-Wings he eats for breakfeast.
every time i read a post's about how bad the the Tie Advanced is I just want to give the little tie that could more love and try to prove that it can be a good ship dispite its flaws.
Vader is good. Maarek has some utility when facing Huge ships. But, that is about it. As much as I enjoy Vader, I understand that he isn't super exciting.
Hmmm... reading your last line there and looking at your avatar...
Darth Vader. Expose. Engine Upgrade. 37 points. Nothing the rebels can field for these points stands a chance. Anybody who dares to fly Lord Vader's ship will end up in a cloud of debris, though. As it should be.
Really? How about just an Outer Rim Smuggler with Millennium Falcon with Gunner. That would pretty much kill Darth Vader without much effort. 3 Z95's outta do it. Couple of A Wings, TY-2400 should handle it not problem. I'm hard pressed to think of any scenario of spending 37 points as a rebel which couldn't take out Vader... pretty much anything outta do it. Its just a Tie Fighter.
Those pesky 360° will prevail against a single dogfighter, I give you that. 3 Z-95 might have a chance. For 37 points you don't get two A-Wings who are a match against Vader. X-Wings he eats for breakfeast.
Actually you can get two A wings for 34 points and I think he would stand a chance against 2 A Wings, but even at pilot skill 1 it would be quite a challenge for it. I agree at 34 points an X Wing probably wouldn't have much of a chance, but take an X wing and a Z-95, and your back to a pretty unlikely scenario in which a Darth Vader wins.
Face it, a Tie Advanced simply doesn't earn his points by comparison and in hence lays the problem with the ship. I do think its a great ship and it certainly would have its uses but at this point I don't really see how FFG can fix it, the problem with the Advanced is that its too expensive.
A Tie Advanced is a lesser A wing. I mean the A wing has a better dial with by comparison is easily worth that extra hull point. The skill bar is the same and Boost vs. Barrel roll are roughly equivalents. The Tie Advanced really has no reason to be more expensive then an A wing and really in a lot of ways should probobly be even cheaper then that. I mean the A wing's dial isn't just better, its a **** ton better. 1 Turn, Green 2 Turns, Green 4 & 5 forwards none of which the advanced has and on top of that you have a 5k and 3k turn which is huge compared to the limited 4k turn of the advanced. Its no contest.
Then you are flying Vader wrong.
The thing I am finding is that to really get the best use out of the Advanced and Defender, you need to know how useful the 1 bank can be. His ability to tank is quite nice. And having faced a squad of all Advances, you would be surprised by how resilient it can be.
Vader is even more fun in a shuttle.
Choking people from afar is one of the most satisfying things in this game.
Then you are flying Vader wrong.
The thing I am finding is that to really get the best use out of the Advanced and Defender, you need to know how useful the 1 bank can be. His ability to tank is quite nice. And having faced a squad of all Advances, you would be surprised by how resilient it can be.
No is suggesting they aren't good, just not good compared to equal value in points. There is nothing a Tie advanced can do that other, cheaper ships can't do as good or better. it's an extremely good ship if it cost 7-8 points less.
The question is: What else do get for 29 points?
Wedge - undoubtly the winner.
But if you stay with the Empire...
Sigma Phantom (25) + PB (2) + Target System (2) = 29
Omicron (21) + AS(3) + EU (4) + IA (1) = 29
Various Interceptor Pilots with upgrades...
Right now I would go with the Phantom.
On the interview with Team Covenant, Alex Davy, super cool guy and FFG game designer for X-Wing mentioned that some love is coming for the ol' TIE Advance.
At the moment, Vader is about the best you can get with the Advanced and it is about 4-5 points over costed for what it does offensively.
Aside from that, you never see them in serious lists. I am just really curious as to what they plan to do to make this ship viable again...
In any game, whenever someone says that a unit / class sucks, my first reflex is always to see whether it really is the case or not. So in tonight's game, I will try:
Direct assault:
Vader with swarm tactics + concussion missiles (35 points)
2X academy Tie (24 points)
Flanking duty
Backstabber (16 points)
Royal guard with push the limit (25 points)
This will either be a glorious battle!... or the humbling defeat that will prove me wrong 
I beg to differ. With barrel roll AND boost you can run rings around any X-wing, especially with PS 9. PTL without stress. No need to immelmann. You can turtle with focus and evade. You could even shoot a missile with target lock AND focus. You can shoot with target lock AND expose - with PS 9 you don't have to worry about losing an agility die.Darth Vader. Expose. Engine Upgrade. 37 points. Nothing the rebels can field for these points stands a chance. Anybody who dares to fly Lord Vader's ship will end up in a cloud of debris, though. As it should be.
No, Vader with Expose is not a good idea. It turns him into an X-wing with a worse dial and no pilot ability; why would you pay 33 points for that? Adding Engine Upgrade just makes it worse.
Both sides have far more effective ships for 37 points.
You're arguing with the wrong person; I like Vader, and I'll even agree that it's better on him than on almost any other Imperial ship (prior to Wave 5, anyway). But Expose is still one of the least effective ways you can spend four points on Vader.
Almost everything you're describing works without Expose--maneuverability, turtling, and impressive effectiveness with ordnance. Vader is still too expensive for what he does, though, and then you make the problem worse by adding Expose. You have two four-point upgrades that can't (or, rather, can but shouldn't) be used together on a ship that's already overpriced. That's not a good plan, particularly when you compare Vader + Expose + Engine Upgrade to something like Soontir Fel + Push the Limit + Royal Guard TIE + Shield Upgrade + Hull Upgrade... or, perhaps more to the point, to two Alpha Squadron Pilots.
In any game, whenever someone says that a unit / class sucks, my first reflex is always to see whether it really is the case or not. So in tonight's game, I will try:
Direct assault:
Vader with swarm tactics + concussion missiles (35 points)
2X academy Tie (24 points)
Flanking duty
Backstabber (16 points)
Royal guard with push the limit (25 points)
This will either be a glorious battle!... or the humbling defeat that will prove me wrong
Looking forward to hearing how you fare with that list.
I tried playing Vader's Advanced once and only once. My opponent figured out that if he stayed in my way he could force me to other take red maneuvers or bump his ships to take away my double actions. After that, it was just an overcosted TIE fighter.
Proton Rockets give it new life but as has been stated to death it's not enough to make it playable, and there are better choices for the points.
They could have given Darth Vader a better ability, like reroll your blanks or all your focus symbols turn to crits if you have a focus token by your ship. But this is what they chose.
In any game, whenever someone says that a unit / class sucks, my first reflex is always to see whether it really is the case or not. So in tonight's game, I will try:
Direct assault:
Vader with swarm tactics + concussion missiles (35 points)
2X academy Tie (24 points)
Flanking duty
Backstabber (16 points)
Royal guard with push the limit (25 points)
This will either be a glorious battle!... or the humbling defeat that will prove me wrong
I think using Vader in any role other than flanker is a mistake. Everyone and their brother will focus fire on him and he will die quick. He is not tanky enough to be an effective "in your face" ship. I have used this list with pretty good results.
Vader with Expose and Stealth Device (36 points)
Howlrunner with Swarm Tactics and Stealth Device (23 points)
Scimitar Squadron (16 points)
Academy Pilot x 2 (12 points each)
Total = 99 points
If the opponent's fleet goes after the swarm, Vader gets in behind and Exposes and lights ships up. If the fleet goes after Vader, he turtles up and leads them through the asteroids with the swarm focus firing on stragglers. If the opponent splits his forces, Vader turtles and the swarm goes to work.
On the interview with Team Covenant, Alex Davy, super cool guy and FFG game designer for X-Wing mentioned that some love is coming for the ol' TIE Advance.
At the moment, Vader is about the best you can get with the Advanced and it is about 4-5 points over costed for what it does offensively.
Aside from that, you never see them in serious lists. I am just really curious as to what they plan to do to make this ship viable again...
Whatever it is, they are in a precarious situation because the issue with the ship really is just cost, its just not worth the points.
I think this may be the first ship that gets a errata fix.
Does it suck? No. Is it overpriced? Yes. The TIE Advanced is the least represented ship in the entire game as far as tournaments and competitive play are concerned, which, as I have said before, is a shame since Darth Vader is THE most iconic figure in the entire Star Wars universe.
They could have given Darth Vader a better ability, like reroll your blanks or all your focus symbols turn to crits if you have a focus token by your ship. But this is what they chose.
...what? Vader has, without a reasonable doubt, one of the best pilot abilities in the game. In any other ship he'd be an auto-include in almost every serious list. The problem is that ability is bolted on to a chassis that's seriously handicapped--and despite that, he almost manages to rescue it.
(Almost.)
...what? Vader has, without a reasonable doubt, one of the best pilot abilities in the game. In any other ship he'd be an auto-include in almost every serious list. The problem is that ability is bolted on to a chassis that's seriously handicapped--and despite that, he almost manages to rescue it.(Almost.)They could have given Darth Vader a better ability, like reroll your blanks or all your focus symbols turn to crits if you have a focus token by your ship. But this is what they chose.
This.
Edit: Not what Boris said but what Vorpal Sword said.
Edited by Schmarbs523