The Shoto seems underwhelming considering that it is a 2 damage point drop for the accurate quality. Perhaps my understanding of the rules is the issue.

When attacking with a basic Lightsaber and a Shoto you would have to designate the Shoto as the primary weapon in order to gain the "Accurate 1" quality to the attack, right? Which is what you would do hoping to get enough Advantage in order to hit with the non-primary basic Lightsaber. This seems ok, but has the potential for hitting for 2 less damage on a successful hit without the activation of the second weapon.

Wouldn't it make more sense to give the Shoto the "Defensive 1" quality? That way just having it out would be a benefit?

Or can the "Accurate 1" quality apply to the basic Lightsaber (as Primary Weaon) attack in Two-Weapon combat, even if the the Shoto hit isn't activated?

The Shoto has to be the designated weapon for the Accurate to apply, but with Breach 1 and the ability to buff its damage 3 or 4 pretty easily, is it really as underpowered as you think? I mean it could have a 7 or 8 base damage once it's modded out, and with Breach 1 that's pretty ugly damage.

The shoto by itself can be used as a main weapon. I think it's a nod to the small lightsabers of d20 that were for small PCs.

Two damage for the Accurate quality isn't a bad trade, since you're more likely to generate the needed to active a crit or other such fun things.

Your question, though, seems to be assuming that you're using the two-weapon combat rules. I'd say that the Accurate quality adds to the attack roll regardless of which weapon is primary. The quality itself says that " the attacker adds to his attack dice pools when using this weapon ", page 115. When using the two-weapon rules, you're using both weapons.

That's my interpretation anyway.

-EF

When using the two weapon rule you designate one weapon as the primary weapon determining the success of the attack.

p. 210 EoE "First, the character denotes one weapon as the primary weapon. When making the combined check, he will be attacking with this weapon."

The shoto by itself can be used as a main weapon. I think it's a nod to the small lightsabers of d20 that were for small PCs.

Two damage for the Accurate quality isn't a bad trade, since you're more likely to generate the needed to active a crit or other such fun things.

Your question, though, seems to be assuming that you're using the two-weapon combat rules. I'd say that the Accurate quality adds to the attack roll regardless of which weapon is primary. The quality itself says that " the attacker adds to his attack dice pools when using this weapon ", page 115. When using the two-weapon rules, you're using both weapons.

That's my interpretation anyway.

-EF

Ok. Thus whenever using the Two-Weapon fighting rules you are getting the Accurate quality? Still, everything I know of to do with the reason Shoto's exist is that they are for Defense. I'm not saying it would be difficult to do, I'm just surprised that the Devs went with accurate 1 and not defensive 1.

The Shoto has to be the designated weapon for the Accurate to apply, but with Breach 1 and the ability to buff its damage 3 or 4 pretty easily, is it really as underpowered as you think? I mean it could have a 7 or 8 base damage once it's modded out, and with Breach 1 that's pretty ugly damage.

Sure it is. No complaints. But WHY use that instead of just another basic Lightsaber? Why handicap yourself the possibility of 2 points of damage? Wouldn't it make more sense to build a separate (smaller) lightsaber if it would allow you to have a better defense? (Like the Legacy Luke and Mara building them to counter Lumiya's lightwhip?)

If you're referring to it being used in conjunction with Two weapon combat it's because that Accuracy die generates Advantages at the same level as a yellow die, and has the lowest chance to generate Threats, so is the most effective at making a Two Weapon combat check succeed.

Perhaps it is simply my school of thought. I read it's use in Jar'Kai as more of a defensive tool than as an attacking tool. My first introduction to the Shoto was Luke making one to help with his defense against the lightwhip.

Slightly off topic, but if an offhand Accurate weapon applies to the main check, what about features that give free advanage? Can an offhand Superior weapon give a free advantage to the main check?

Slightly off topic, but if an offhand Accurate weapon applies to the main check, what about features that give free advanage? Can an offhand Superior weapon give a free advantage to the main check?

I think it has to be designated as the primary to get the benefits.

The shoto by itself can be used as a main weapon. I think it's a nod to the small lightsabers of d20 that were for small PCs.

Two damage for the Accurate quality isn't a bad trade, since you're more likely to generate the needed to active a crit or other such fun things.

Your question, though, seems to be assuming that you're using the two-weapon combat rules. I'd say that the Accurate quality adds to the attack roll regardless of which weapon is primary. The quality itself says that " the attacker adds to his attack dice pools when using this weapon ", page 115. When using the two-weapon rules, you're using both weapons.

That's my interpretation anyway.

-EF

Ok. Thus whenever using the Two-Weapon fighting rules you are getting the Accurate quality? Still, everything I know of to do with the reason Shoto's exist is that they are for Defense. I'm not saying it would be difficult to do, I'm just surprised that the Devs went with accurate 1 and not defensive 1.

I believe so, yes. Since with the two-weapon fighting rules you are using both weapons.

Slightly off topic, but if an offhand Accurate weapon applies to the main check, what about features that give free advanage? Can an offhand Superior weapon give a free advantage to the main check?

Same as above. Auto-advantage "… on all checks related to its use " (pg118).

I'll send the devs an email asking about it and will let you know what they say.

In the meantime, just dual-wield shoto's to make sure you get that bonus blue die

-EF

The shoto by itself can be used as a main weapon. I think it's a nod to the small lightsabers of d20 that were for small PCs.

Two damage for the Accurate quality isn't a bad trade, since you're more likely to generate the needed to active a crit or other such fun things.

Your question, though, seems to be assuming that you're using the two-weapon combat rules. I'd say that the Accurate quality adds to the attack roll regardless of which weapon is primary. The quality itself says that " the attacker adds to his attack dice pools when using this weapon ", page 115. When using the two-weapon rules, you're using both weapons.

That's my interpretation anyway.

-EF

Ok. Thus whenever using the Two-Weapon fighting rules you are getting the Accurate quality? Still, everything I know of to do with the reason Shoto's exist is that they are for Defense. I'm not saying it would be difficult to do, I'm just surprised that the Devs went with accurate 1 and not defensive 1.

I believe so, yes. Since with the two-weapon fighting rules you are using both weapons.

Slightly off topic, but if an offhand Accurate weapon applies to the main check, what about features that give free advanage? Can an offhand Superior weapon give a free advantage to the main check?

Same as above. Auto-advantage "… on all checks related to its use " (pg118).

I'll send the devs an email asking about it and will let you know what they say.

In the meantime, just dual-wield shoto's to make sure you get that bonus blue die

-EF

The second weapon isn't being "used" though. The Two Weapon combat rules clearly spells out one weapon is designated primary and is used for the combat check. The rule then goes on to explain if the check is successful and the second weapon hits additional Advantages and Triumphs can be spent for weapon effects, crits, etc.

So you really want a Superior Bantha Eye Autofire weapon in your offhand. If you have enough advantage to trigger the offhand, you get enough free advantage to trigger autofire.

This one was asked before and the answer posted in the "FFG Developer Answered Questions" in the main EotE forum. I'm just going to copy/paste the relevant points here:

Does a character wielding two Ryyk Blades (or two superior vibro swords) gain automatically two advantages with his melee checks? or just one?
Does he gain 2 points of melee defence (one per weapon) or just 1?

Kind regards,
Yepes

Seems to me this strongly implies that the only mechanical benefit you get from your off-hand weapon is the damage on the second hit. No quailites of any kind.

Sam answered on the "check" which is what Two Weapon combat says. Then there is once the check has succeeded and the second weapon hits, other Advantages and Triumphs can be used for things it does. For instance two hits can cause two separate crits. A second weapon with an effect, like Blast, could be triggered, etc. It's just one weapon used in determining the attack's initial success.

The second weapon isn't being "used" though. The Two Weapon combat rules clearly spells out one weapon is designated primary and is used for the combat check. The rule then goes on to explain if the check is successful and the second weapon hits additional Advantages and Triumphs can be spent for weapon effects, crits, etc.

We're going to have to agree to disagree here…I don't see how you can't use a weapon and still, well, use it to cause damage. Either it's being used and can then be "linked" with the first weapon, or it's not being used and you're not using the two-weapon fighting rules.

This one was asked before and the answer posted in the "FFG Developer Answered Questions" in the main EotE forum. I'm just going to copy/paste the relevant points here:

Does a character wielding two Ryyk Blades (or two superior vibro swords) gain automatically two advantages with his melee checks? or just one?

Does he gain 2 points of melee defence (one per weapon) or just 1?

Kind regards,

Yepes

Hi Yepes,

Just one advantage, and just one melee defense.

Hope that helps!

Sam Stewart

Senior RPG Producer

Fantasy Flight Games

Seems to me this strongly implies that the only mechanical benefit you get from your off-hand weapon is the damage on the second hit. No quailites of any kind.

That doesn't actually answer the question, though. This is in response to two weapons with the same qualities. The Ryyk blade is Defensive 1, so of course two of them doesn't grant melee defense 2 (since you don't stack defense, you take the highest unless something adds to your defense), and Superior. So you can't take advantage of 2 Superior weapons, but that doesn't, to me, answer if you can benefit from a quality on the secondary weapon that the primary weapon lacks.

-EF

You Can you use a weapon quality on the secondary weapon if the initial attack was successful and if the two weapon combat triggered. Once it has triggered anything that is on the second weapon can be used as long as you have the advantages or the triumphs to pay for whatever effect it is you are triggering.

You Can you use a weapon quality on the secondary weapon if the initial attack was successful and if the two weapon combat triggered. Once it has triggered anything that is on the second weapon can be used as long as you have the advantages or the triumphs to pay for whatever effect it is you are triggering.

But how do you "activate" passive qualities? If I spend to hit with the second weapon, do I then roll a boost die if the weapon is accurate? Do I gain a free because it's superior?

The two-weapon combat rules don't cover how passive qualities on the secondary weapon work.

-EF

Your GM could have you roll any Setbacks or Accuracy on the 2nd weapon if they like on the side during the initial roll, just not use them for determining the success of the attack and the activation of the second weapon hit, that's a little fiddley but it's the most literal RAW way of doing it. If a second weapon has Superior it gets to use the auto Advantage for anything it likes except determing if the initial attack was a success or if the primary weapon suceeded in activating the second hit. So you could use it for adding to crits, or effects, etc.

So it works like I expect. You designate a primary and the secondary doesn't give you benefits until it's activated (accurate after the check is weird to me, though). So in the case of a Shoto, accurate only makes sense if you use the little lightsaber as a primary. I personally feel defensive 1 makes more sense as to why you would spend the manuver to pull it out, but I do trust the Devs. Still, for my own personal feedback, defensive makes more sense to me than accurate.

Rolling Accurate after the fact is clunky, but it is also strictly speaking RAW. That's not to say RAW are particularly perfect.

The Shoto would be a great primary weapon for Two Weapon combat. Mod a crystal, get Superior, will work very well.

So it works like I expect. You designate a primary and the secondary doesn't give you benefits until it's activated (accurate after the check is weird to me, though). So in the case of a Shoto, accurate only makes sense if you use the little lightsaber as a primary. I personally feel defensive 1 makes more sense as to why you would spend the manuver to pull it out, but I do trust the Devs. Still, for my own personal feedback, defensive makes more sense to me than accurate.

Using two of 'em would allow you to use the passive abilities

I asked the devs if passive qualities from secondary would be used on the attack roll. I'll let you know what they say. For me and my table, though, passive qualities on both will apply, since you're still "using" the weapon on the attack, even if you don't get enough advantages to trigger the linked weapon.

-EF

For me and my table, though, passive qualities on both will apply, since you're still "using" the weapon on the attack, even if you don't get enough advantages to trigger the linked weapon.

-EF

If for no other reason than to speed up rolling.

Wait, so Defensive Qualities don't stack? That makes zero sense. If I've got a Vibrosword and Riot Shield, why wouldn't both Defensive traits stack? Defensive increases defense, and the EotE FAQ states that you add increase defense based on anything you have.

Also, in regards to Accurate, it's a combined check. Doesn't combined kind of suggest that both weapons are taking part?

It's not a combined check, the Two Weapon combat rule clearly says that. One weapon is designated primary and it is the weapon that is used to complete the check. I quoted the rule, it's not vague or ambiguous at all.