"Warhammer Will Never Be The Same"

*sees £100 book*

*puts entire Warhammer collection on eBay*

Yeah, you're not wrong, GW. You're not wrong.

I lolled. I rofled.

I mentally put the Nagash money to entire fleets in X Wing.

Truly GW is jumping some number of sharks right now.

I already sold most stuff.

And that money was invested in a game which is actually worth playing.

I had this conversation with a friend earlier, but seriously, can you imagine trying to get into the Warhammer hobby from scratch now?

I mean, say you had friends who played at the 1,500 point level, and wanted to eventually go to a tournament or something like that.

You could pick up Island of Blood to start off. £60.

The base paint set. £27.

An Army Book. £30.

That's almost £120 and you're not even close to the required numbers for a standard game yet...

Now maybe that kind of outlay is fine for die-hard enthusiasts, or people with unlimited budgets...but how about kids? Where are the new players going to come from?

Yeah I'm playing fantasy right now and really enjoying it. I'm terrified of what they'll do to it in 9th though. 40k is just a closet filler at this point.

£50 for a digital download. WTAF.

I had this conversation with a friend earlier, but seriously, can you imagine trying to get into the Warhammer hobby from scratch now?

I mean, say you had friends who played at the 1,500 point level, and wanted to eventually go to a tournament or something like that.

You could pick up Island of Blood to start off. £60.

The base paint set. £27.

An Army Book. £30.

That's almost £120 and you're not even close to the required numbers for a standard game yet...

Now maybe that kind of outlay is fine for die-hard enthusiasts, or people with unlimited budgets...but how about kids? Where are the new players going to come from?

They're coming from people buying X-Wing players' 40k armies on ebay, as near as I can tell.

same with Wizkids .... the concept behind diuce masters sounded nice, although potentially unballanced.

The exclusive promos killed it at nauseam.

At the last gencon, and although I think I am open-minded and I have been playing a big diversity of games, it coudl have been a FFG-con and it would have been the same to me ... LOTR:LCg, x-wing tournament, warhammer diskwars tournament, eldritch horror, and trying conquest and armada ...

Now maybe that kind of outlay is fine for die-hard enthusiasts, or people with unlimited budgets...but how about kids? Where are the new players going to come from?

That's the problem they have right now, and the reason they are on a decline while more accessible games like Xwing are growing in the market in ways nobody would had believed 10 years ago.

Yeah I'm playing fantasy right now and really enjoying it. I'm terrified of what they'll do to it in 9th though. 40k is just a closet filler at this point.

Fantasy is a lot of fun.

Now maybe that kind of outlay is fine for die-hard enthusiasts, or people with unlimited budgets...but how about kids? Where are the new players going to come from?

That's the problem they have right now, and the reason they are on a decline while more accessible games like Xwing are growing in the market in ways nobody would had believed 10 years ago.

It's odd. They (GW) aim their products at kids and kids at heart. But really it's only a certain age group of older folks who can afford to throw that much disposable income at a game which, to be honest, feels quite old fashioned these days.

There are just so many excellent alternatives these days to Warhammers, X wing being top of my current choices:).

Now maybe that kind of outlay is fine for die-hard enthusiasts, or people with unlimited budgets...but how about kids? Where are the new players going to come from?

That's the problem they have right now, and the reason they are on a decline while more accessible games like Xwing are growing in the market in ways nobody would had believed 10 years ago.

I'm pretty sure that's why they went the whole "unbound" direction in 40k. For people who are just starting, they can buy (or have their parent buy) ANY model they want and use it all in the same list.

What doesn't make sense, is why they are putting so much effort into "catering" to new players, while disenfranchising older, more financially able players. That and trying so incredibly hard to turn 40k away from being a tournament game. They might never have intended for it to be a tournament game, but many tournament players I know, (used to) throw HUGE amounts of cash at GW to pick up every new power army that came out.

Players that are more into the collection and hobby side of the game amass their collection and stop for the most part. Tournament players MUST keep buying to stay relevant and competitive. And yet GW is doing everything in their power to stop all this pesky, and **** constant, cash flow.

And when the cash flow slows to a trickle, they panic and raise prices to cover the difference. It's insane.

I just want to sit in on their board meetings and gawk at how clueless they all are. Maybe one of their execs could explain to me why they think hype is a bad thing. Every single release is kept hidden for as long as possible and then it's, "SURPRISE!!! Buy this outrageously expensive book please!"

"Uhhh....what is it?"

"Just shut up and buy it already!"

FFG, on the other hand, understands that hype is the cheapest form of marketing. You don't have to take out billboards, magazine ads or commercials, just put a teaser on your website and let all of the free social media do the advertising for you. It's the reality of marketing in the 21st Century and yet GW is, for some inexplicable reason, diametrically opposed to it. How ANY of them got their jobs in the first place is absolutely beyond me.

TL; DR: GW's goals and policies are mutually exclusive.

Yeah I'm playing fantasy right now and really enjoying it. I'm terrified of what they'll do to it in 9th though. 40k is just a closet filler at this point.

Fantasy is a lot of fun.

I absolutely agree. Fantasy (and 40K) are a lot of fun. The problem is, they're becoming less and less accessible to the casual gamer as time goes by. This can't possibly be sustainable for them.

Oh, i am pretty sure they pissed off everyone equally, i played for like 15 years 40k, i left the game at 6th edition. You could see the trend, they removed themselves from the internet, suddenly, the competitive tournament they supported ('ard boyz and rogue traders) got shafted and later on you could see by the end of fifth what they wanted. Skull of thrones tournament was such a massive casual event, that you could even win it just by playing an underrepresented race.

And a big long etc... Even if you think unbound appeals to new comers, new comers not only have to spend a crazy amount of cash to start, but the game is such trash gameplay's wise at that point level, that they will run away and feel bad for spending any dollar on it, unbound or not.

I had run demo games for 40k and Xwing. Xwing you get 2 Xwings and 4 tie fighters, and people already have fun, it is fast and fun. Then you put 10 marines and 20 orks against each other, and your players are dying of boredrom at the bland experience they are having because the game mechanichs only supports 1500+ games (and i would dare to say 1750+).

Kirby is crazy. I am pretty sure most people here already read the annual's report preamble by Kirby. Hilarious stuff.

Can someone summarize what happened? I dont play 40k, so I'm clueless but curious.

They released Nagash, an 85 euros model.

so? Isn't an Imperial Knight 4 times that?

They released Nagash, an 85 euros model.

Along with a 65 euro book required to field him.

Or, if you're feeling particularly affluent, a 130 euro limited edition book.

so? Isn't an Imperial Knight 4 times that?

Yep. Pretty much is the same. Big model and an expensive book.

But i couldn't care less more about it, i think GW's treatment to their competitive, internet, customers and FLGs are enough reasons alone for me to not spend a penny again on their products.

Oh jesus. They don't know what they're doing and that makes me very sad.

I honestly cannot fathom why GW has failed to understand that they're pricing themselves out of the market. I know gainfully employed adults with this game as their main hobby who have moved to other systems because of GW's prices. It's insane.

All companies need to make money. But customers do notice how you do it. GW prices rose rose quickly and often. Moreover, the release of a new edition so soon after one was released (2 years) seems to be a pretty transparent money grab. Plus the rules went downhill FAST, IMO, but I do know a lot of people who enjoyed 6th ed, so that's only one gamer's perspective.

In any case, they have their right to charge whatever they want and release whatever rules they want. I have my right to walk away from their game.

I've still got my minis (which is the one thing they still do very well, by the way), so maybe I'll find someone who wants to play a 5th ed game some time.

Not a fan of the buy the models separately and then buy the rule book to play with it. Could you imagine buying the corvette and then having to buy the corvette rules book?!?!

GW prices rose rose quickly and often.

No kidding. I can get more for models I bought 10 years ago on eBay now than I originally paid for them. The kits haven't changed, the prices have... in some cases, drastically.

I've played Warhammer Fantasy, 40k and other assorted GW games for almost 20 years. I currently own one Warhammer Fantasy army (Goblins) and three 40k armies (Tau, Imperial Guard and Space Marines). I've spent a lot of time and money on my addiction/hobby and quite frankly I love what I do. And yet I effing hate Games Workshop, the company that has given me this wonderful hobby.

I think it started around the time GW released the Lord of the Rings game. I never bothered with the game as it didn't interest me, but it probably had a number of good ideas. I did notice however how much of the game that was focused on specific events from the movies/books and that each such event seemed to get its own set of models. Like it was more important to sell models to collectors than supporting the game. From what I've heard over the years, it didn't do terribly well.

Next was the White Dwarf magazine. It used to be fun to get the latest issue, reading all the battle reports, see all the new models, reading up on painting tips, getting columns discussing tactics, looking at other peoples outrageous armies and so on. As the years passed, less and less of that was included until all you got was an advertisement in disguise. Even the battle reports were reduced to flashy pictures, completely disregarding the battle maps of old where you could follow the action properly.

Something that could not be missed was the constant price increases. First time I really noticed it was when the Empire Greatswords was released as a plastic kit, yet contained less and cost more than their metal counterparts. Even worse and at about the same time was the Vampire Counts Blood knights that cost about three to four times as much as any other knights. Heck, a set of five knights cost almost as much as a Stompa or Baneblade!

Those damned knights, especially their horses, didn't look very good either but it was nothing compared to what would come over the years. In my opinion, the current range looks far more like He-Man than Warhammer. I truly hate the current Treemen, Minotaurs, Savage Orcs, Dwarf Gyrocopters, Space Marine Centurions, Chaos Heldrake, IG Taurox, big parts of the Daemon range, Coven throne, to mention a few and latest of all, Logan Grimnar on chibi viking longboat, pulled by ugly ass wolves. Yes, that's not a joke, follow the link to see the travesty. http://www.games-workshop.com/en-SE/Logan-Grimnar-on-Stormrider. He-Man masters of the universe indeed.

I could go on and on about this but I decided to do something about it. Instead of feeding GW more of my money, I started looking at other options. There are dozens of small companies making alternative games and models that potentially be used in Warhammer Fantasy and 40k. My first effort was an Imperial Guard army using nothing but WW2 German troops and vehicles. My second attempt, and the one I'm currently working on, (when I'm not doing something X-wing related that is) is a Space Marine army using models and vehicles from several sources but mostly troops from Mantic Games Warpath game. This was the best finger in GWs face I could manage and also the reason why I started my blog. No, that is not a shameless plug, I truly wanted to spread the word of how to play GW games despite paying GW as little cash as possible. After all, nothing changes a company as much and as fast as when their revenue falls. Unfortunately, the changes GW has done lately doesn't give me hope.