Is a lot of bad feeling about GW at our game club as well, 40k is a game I never got into and looking at all the posts and peoples armies I'm glad.
What I find strange is cutting off the older games, I for one still play Bloodbowl, there's a thriving community and tournament scene, some amazing third party mini makers have sprung up too and it's better for it I think.
I hear mantics version of bloodbowl is fun and doing well.
I hear that X-Wing is better still. Screw other systems, it's poor form discussing them on FFG's forums.
Is a lot of bad feeling about GW at our game club as well, 40k is a game I never got into and looking at all the posts and peoples armies I'm glad.
What I find strange is cutting off the older games, I for one still play Bloodbowl, there's a thriving community and tournament scene, some amazing third party mini makers have sprung up too and it's better for it I think.
Because they saw their specialist games as competition to their main products, 40k and Fantasy, instead of what they really are, diverse options to keep your customers loyal to your products while they are taking breaks between one or another product line.
The moment specialist games went to poop, people started to try out different games and discovered that GW sucks at rules making outside their specialist games. And the entry barriers, oh the allmight GW's entry barriers.
Edited by DreadStarI for one have hope for GW, but not the present day GW. Let's face it, GW has a very rich background for their fantasy and 40k universes that in the gamer world is as profound as Tolkiens. They produce quality figures, have a large range of books, and make some decent video games. This company is not going belly up, however...
I have worked in the retail business for 25 years and I see the signs. GW is doing what all retailers do when they are poising themselves to be sold. Close stores. Check. Cut middle management jobs. Check. Increase prices to get a quick margin. Check. Current CEO step down for a new expendable one. Check.
I know a lot of you (myself included) have a lot of anger toward GW, but I think it would be a travesty to see GW products disappear into the void. I say, have hope that within a year GW will be under new management (FFG would be great since they already have product licensing) and will put the consumer first.
When I first started playing Rogue Trader, you could buy 30 marines for $20. $20 also bought you 2 land raiders or 3 rhinos.
Nobody liked GW'S pricing but accompany that with their Nazi like trade policies and complete ineptness at rule creation, it was a recipe for a mass exodus.
We quite playing before many here or currently even started playing.
Decades ago before GW went corporate they were a good GAME company. White Dwarf even covered other games and it was not a big advertisement for only GW products. Back then you could call GW on the phone and the likes of Rick Priestly would answer your call.
No one wants 40k to die or wfb, no one would mourn GW's death though.
Also they licence games they don't make them for consoles and computers and there have been many many stinkers.
I dont think its poor form to discuss other games on FFGs forums.
One of GW's major failings is the 'we are in a gaming bubble and no other companies exist' attitude.
It got to ludicrous heights in the 90s when you could be barred from a store for mentioning another game like battletech.
Given the conscensus is, GW have gone really down hill, i pretty much only play xwing now... i cant see FFG being that hurt to see that on their forums.
Ironically a lot of the old school GW staff (many of the guys from the era I worked there at) now freelance for FFG on their GW licensed RPGS
When I first started playing Rogue Trader, you could buy 30 marines for $20. $20 also bought you 2 land raiders or 3 rhinos.
Nobody liked GW'S pricing but accompany that with their Nazi like trade policies and complete ineptness at rule creation, it was a recipe for a mass exodus.
We quite playing before many here or currently even started playing.
Decades ago before GW went corporate they were a good GAME company. White Dwarf even covered other games and it was not a big advertisement for only GW products. Back then you could call GW on the phone and the likes of Rick Priestly would answer your call.
A while back i worked out the output of GW 'per decade'
80s games by Games Workshop (L) denotes a UK rewrite and reproduction of a Chaoseum, West End Games or other such game rather than one created by GW
Books
Warhammer 3rd Ed
Warhammer 40,000
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (+ at least 7 sourcebooks)
Hawkmoon (L)
Runequest (L)
Confrontation (not released)
Strombringer (L)
Paranoia II (L)
Judge Dredd RPG + companion
Golden Heroes
Boxed Big Games
Adeptus Titanicus
Blood Bowl 2nd ed
Dark Future
Space Hulk ( + 2 expansion packs)
Heroquest
Advanced Heroquest
A4 Boxed Games
Warhammer 1st ed
Warhammer 2nd ed
Blood Bowl 1st Edition
Chaos Marauders
Fury of Dracula
Blood Royale
Block Mania + Mega Mania
Talisman (+ 4 add ons)
Rogue Trooper
Warlock of firetop Mountain
Chainsaw Warrior
Kings and Things (L)
Curse of the Mummys Tomb
Dungeon Quest + Heroes + catcombs
Judge Dredd boardgame
Other Games
Apocalypse (board game)
Cosmic Encounter (L)
Calamity
Railway rivals (L)
The four awful ‘troll’ games
Car Wars
And about ten ZX spectrum games and one crap thrash rock album!
Thats nearly FORTY game that while they might not be exclusivley made by GW they were sold or supported by them.
Now in the nineties it drops dramatically to
two editions of 40k and fantasy
warmaster
necromunda
mordheim
warhammer quest
warmaster
bloodbowl
battlefleet gothic
Talisman
epic
man o war
Less than 15 games.
In the 'noughties' we see a real slump
WFB
40k
LOTR
And the reason?
Shareholders.
when it became a shareheld company they wanted GW to sell more of the stuff that sells, sod having shop space for niche stuff, pile the core games high, deny anything else is worth playing.
The noughties also sees the death of specialist game support (patchy though it was), the gradual lack of content worth reading in white dwarf, a total lack of gamer submitted content and most importantly a removal of the spare parts and bits service.
Now i might have missed a game or two each decade but to go from creating/supporting 40 or so titles to about four.... well thats just a bit naff.
Edited by GadgeLook, reading Kirby's statement I think we can all smell the whiskey on his breath and I'm excited he's moving on. Maybe it's just the optimist in me but I feel this can only improve things for GW in the long run even though it will be different - not necessarily worse.
Do I enjoy having the models in my collection be relegated to a box because they're changed with each edition or codex? No. Do I want the company to get wiped off the map and be stuck with even more useless models? Hell no.
I'm rooting for you, GW. I really am. Just stop ******* things up, please.
He's not moving on he's still going to be the chairman of the board he just won't be CEO.
He and his yes men cronies on the board will keep things on the same course, and if you think they'll change just because they appoint a new CEO to take the wrap your being overly optimistic.
He's not moving on he's still going to be the chairman of the board he just won't be CEO.
He and his yes men cronies on the board will keep things on the same course, and if you think they'll change just because they appoint a new CEO to take the wrap your being overly optimistic.
That's just a nice way for him to move on, it seems to me. Firing him outright would have created the image (which all of us have anyway) of GW having made mistakes.
Oh, he is retiring in a few years.
Retiring next January.
I hear mantics version of bloodbowl is fun and doing well.
The only thing Dreadball really has in common with blood bowl is that they are both miniature sports games...... but yes, Dreadball is doing well and it's a heckuva lot of fun
Retiring next January.
No, he is not retiring on January, he is stepping down as CEO. ;P
Edited by DreadStarThey released Nagash, an 85 euros model.
Atleast the bugger is half to 3/4 of an army with a cost of 1000 points.
http://investor.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Chairmans-Preamble-2014.pdf
GW are crapping themselves right now they went down 54% in terms of year on year profits and the morons in charge have now admitted they do no customer research so they don't know why.
You're kidding, right?
Read it by yourself. It's almost comical.
[facepalm]
From the preamble: "this augurs well for..." augurs? AUGURS? good god! Why does GW management talk like 40k characters?
A while back i worked out the output of GW 'per decade'
two editions of 40k and fantasy
warmaster
necromunda
mordheim
warhammer quest
warmaster
bloodbowl
battlefleet gothic
Talisman
epic
man o war
Those games from the 90s were the best! Talisman, warhammer quest, man-o war, epic, necromunda...
Back then white dwarf actualy had articles in it, rather than a shopping list and pictures of models that look like they were lit with a desk lamp.
This is exactly why nobody over here picked up dreadfleet- we all knew there would be no expnasions, no support.
He's not moving on he's still going to be the chairman of the board he just won't be CEO.
He and his yes men cronies on the board will keep things on the same course, and if you think they'll change just because they appoint a new CEO to take the wrap your being overly optimistic.
Oh my I haven't even posted on Warseer yet but feel like I'm back home.
Yeah the proof is in the pudding and even the apologists there can't really come back with much to counter their doing poorly. The facts are in black and white. Question is, will the change of the guard lead to any change ? Not unless the new CEO actually wants to and can institute positive change. They aren't dead yet, but heading that way without real effort on their parts to right the ship.
As Hobo said they cut to the bone to save money, but, they are out of quick fixes now. They need deep, positive change to right the ship and it won't happen over night but following the path GW is on, is simply put, following a path to their own destruction. If not destruction, then a deep down sizing and a loss of being an industry leader.
I doubt GW will die, but on the path it is on, it will devolve into a shell of its former self. Much like what happened to Sega from the video game wars. Once one of the giants, now simply an obscurity that only really puts out games on occasion and was something in the past. The Warhammer IP is strong enough I think they could survive in a skeleton sense with selling out bits and pieces to companies like FFG to develop things for it, and put out dribs and drabs here and there.
I hope that won't happen, but it could very well be their end times.
.
I hope that won't happen, but it could very well be their end times.
I see what you did there...
Maybe they realised this, said "well it's to late now" and brought back nagash as 85 euro model.
Well Nagash last model was one of the worst looking models ever, and much smaller. So perhaps they wish to go out with a bang ?
and thanks for noticing what I did there.
Oh that old model a huge skeleton in a purple robe, yeah that could have been done better. I must admit the new one looks good, it really is a model that couldn't be made several years ago. If i had the money i just might buy it and use it as a daemon prince in 40k. But still at almost 90 dollars...
Oh my I haven't even posted on Warseer yet but feel like I'm back home.
Yeah the proof is in the pudding and even the apologists there can't really come back with much to counter their doing poorly. The facts are in black and white. Question is, will the change of the guard lead to any change ? Not unless the new CEO actually wants to and can institute positive change. They aren't dead yet, but heading that way without real effort on their parts to right the ship.
As Hobo said they cut to the bone to save money, but, they are out of quick fixes now. They need deep, positive change to right the ship and it won't happen over night but following the path GW is on, is simply put, following a path to their own destruction. If not destruction, then a deep down sizing and a loss of being an industry leader.
I doubt GW will die, but on the path it is on, it will devolve into a shell of its former self. Much like what happened to Sega from the video game wars. Once one of the giants, now simply an obscurity that only really puts out games on occasion and was something in the past. The Warhammer IP is strong enough I think they could survive in a skeleton sense with selling out bits and pieces to companies like FFG to develop things for it, and put out dribs and drabs here and there.
I hope that won't happen, but it could very well be their end times.
IM prob wrong but i cant shake this feeling that GW is going to get worse... They may passivly lashout at other compaines that have the green light to make 40k products.