It's always been said that cybernetics impact a Force user's ability to connect to the force, and has been used to explain why Vader couldn't use force lightning. He was also supposedly crippled in his power levels by having so many cybernetic replacements. Are there any rules in F&D for cybernetics negatively impacting force users?

No.

As an optional rule: For each cybernetic enhancement that improves an Ability, reduce your Force Rating by 1 when meeting prerequisites in order to purchase a Force Power Tree.

Thus Vader would have Arms and Legs which would provide him with a +2 to Brawn (I'm betting he has a 7)

If he had a Force Rating of 4 then he would still not meet the prerequisites to Purchase the Protect/Unleash Tree. (4-2=2 and Protect/Unleash requires a 3+)

(It could be worded better)

The pirate is correct in this. And to be honest, I think that's all we need. The GM could flavor it more, but we don't need more rules for this sort of thing. If you have cybernetics and you fail a force power check? cool! You have a neat in-character excuse to blame it on. Make small character development point out of it.

In the Revenge of the Sith Visual Dictionary, under Darth Vader, in the Data File, it says -"As a result of having artificial arms, Darth Vader will never be able to conjure Sith lightning-nor be invulnerable to it." This strikes me as a pretty non-narrative mechanic.

In the Revenge of the Sith Visual Dictionary, under Darth Vader, in the Data File, it says -"As a result of having artificial arms, Darth Vader will never be able to conjure Sith lightning-nor be invulnerable to it." This strikes me as a pretty non-narrative mechanic.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

To your credit, I think Lucas said as much in the beginning. But it seemed FFG went a different route.

I never bought into the cybernetics = less force shtick, it's too fiddly for my game.

I think conceptually it makes more sense.

Force is tied to "real" and living things. Cybernetics is man trying to emulate real and living things. The same reason a droid cannot be a force user, I would say a Cyborg also would be limited.

That is a good point, and I will ask my players how they feel about it.

It doesn't really make sense, and never has. The Force being what it is, it should also be present in the earth and electricity that is cybernetics - more importantly, does that mean someone without cybernetics who loses a limb also loses some Force sensitivity, since they have less living matter? Is Yoda less Force sensitive for being smaller, and thus having less living matter to work with?

As an optional rule: For each cybernetic enhancement that improves an Ability, reduce your Force Rating by 1 when meeting prerequisites in order to purchase a Force Power Tree.

Thus Vader would have Arms and Legs which would provide him with a +2 to Brawn (I'm betting he has a 7)

If he had a Force Rating of 4 then he would still not meet the prerequisites to Purchase the Protect/Unleash Tree. (4-2=2 and Protect/Unleash requires a 3+)

(It could be worded better)

Vader almost certainly had better than a Force rating of 4, so that doesn't hold.

If you really want a rule for this, I'd say that you could look at the Healer's Calming Aura ability and apply that to cybernetics, where you generate one fewer Force points per implant you have.

I don't really think it's necessary, though. And, honestly, we don't see this play out anywhere: despite being half machine, Darth Vader is more powerful than whole rooms full of Jedi Knights and Masters. Then we have Lumiya who, also half machine, is capable of performing some pretty ridiculous Force powers that no one else seems capable of. You could say that maybe it's a mental thing, that all their broken bits undermines their confidence in learning new techniques? Or just do it narratively and say that implants make X thing impossible, or more difficult.

Eh, I'm not a fan of the idea because I enjoy cybernetics. I've just always read that they do limit force powers. Unleash isn't even lightning all the time. You could say that the darksider Kamehameha's (good use of Intense Focus?) and burning light flows from his/her hands. Simply enough you could just say Vader never took Unleash, focusing instead on Bind. Narratively you could say that Sith Lightning requires biological hands to channel the electricity properly. I prefer not being bogged down by it, but I do read it in source material and it comes from Mr. Lucas himself (then again, so do midichlorians, which is thankfully not included in Force and Destiny)

As an optional rule: For each cybernetic enhancement that improves an Ability, reduce your Force Rating by 1 when meeting prerequisites in order to purchase a Force Power Tree.

In the Revenge of the Sith Visual Dictionary, under Darth Vader, in the Data File, it says -"As a result of having artificial arms, Darth Vader will never be able to conjure Sith lightning-nor be invulnerable to it." This strikes me as a pretty non-narrative mechanic.

Maybe because he would kill the processors, circuits and engines in his arms and legs. He could use Force Lightning but chose to not to.

Arguing that the use of cybernetics reduce Force capability means that available biomass has at least some bearing on Force capability. This must be the case if removing an arm reduces one's Force powers. Ergo, the most powerful potential Force Sensitive in the galaxy, that we've seen on screen, would be a Hutt.

Also, if available biomass increases Force capability, how is Yoda so powerful?

In any case, the entire theory is poorly supported by the available sources, and not supported at all by the canon. Darth Vader is not less powerful than Anakin Skywalker was, and there are plenty of reasons outside of his cybernetics why he may not have been able to use Force lightning.

Palpatine wanted Anakin, because he wanted the greatest Jedi in the galaxy under his thumb. If the Emperor knew Anakin with cybernetic augmentation would be less powerful than previous, he would have simply let Anakin die on Mustafar and found a new apprentice.

In any case, the entire theory is poorly supported by the available sources, and not supported at all by the canon. Darth Vader is not less powerful than Anakin Skywalker was, and there are plenty of reasons outside of his cybernetics why he may not have been able to use Force lightning.

Palpatine wanted Anakin, because he wanted the greatest Jedi in the galaxy under his thumb. If the Emperor knew Anakin with cybernetic augmentation would be less powerful than previous, he would have simply let Anakin die on Mustafar and found a new apprentice.

Actually, 'Rise of Darth Vader' mentions that Vader is a shell of his former self. The Emperor took him on to salvage a long-term investment, and to make use of a still-useful tool until a more powerful apprentice could be discovered. This is why both Starkiller and Luke were made an offer of apprenticeship when they encountered the Emperor.

This seems like a simple thing to take care of via setback dice if one is so inclined.

As for Palps "salvaging" Anakin from Mustafar, he figured that he'd already invested so much in the kid that he might as well get something for his years of hard work at corrupting the kid. Even if Vader wasn't the super-powered apprentice he'd hoped for, Palps still had a very powerful enforcer to do his bidding, one that maybe he could even manage to groom into a worthy successor... provided a shiny unbroken candidate (like Starkiller or Luke) didn't come along.

While the rules don't have anything to say about cybernetics impeding usage of the Force, we do have Word of Lucas that Vader being so heavily cybered-up did cut into how powerful he could become, and not simply for the inability to make use of Force Lightning.

Perhaps one method of reflecting this would be that the character's Force Rating is considered to be one lower for every two points of cybernetics they possess, but only for the purposes of qualifying to purchase new Force powers. So Luke with just his replacement hand and Anakin with his replacement forearm didn't suffer any notable drawbacks, while Vader's reconstruction (both arms, both legs) knocked his Force Rating down to a 1 in qualifying to purchase new Force powers, meaning he couldn't pick up Heal/Harm or Protect/Unleash since they require Force Rating of 2 and 3 respectively, but he'd already picked up Bind prior to his getting maimed, so he could still use that power.

And, as GMmL said, Setback dice are frequently used to represent similar narrative benefits/hindrances...

Setback dice wouldn't apply here. It isn't that he is hindered. It's that he would "ion" his arms and lungs and die. It has always been put out there that Vader couldn't reach the potential that the emperor wanted because of his being mostly machine now. That is the whole point on why the emperor allowed Vader to bring Luke in rather than just kill him.

I'm not saying it is fun to be hindered by your cybernetics, but a reduction in FR when purchasing Force Power Trees makes the most sense. Not simply buying the Whole Unleash tree and having a few Setback Dice on the activation of the power.

Do what you want If I were running a more simulator-style game I'd be interested in cutting FR but with that said it really depends on what kind of table/players I have. If someone invested all the way into their trees and I take away a rank because they lose an arm that's all well and good, but is it fun? Not for me to say. Personally I run Warhammer Fantasy for the brutal stuff. I like my Star Wars light and operaesque. Srs Business 101 does dictate that FR would be effected, no arguments there. I simply offer the setback dice as a medium between the two stances on the matter. Cheers.

Arguing that the use of cybernetics reduce Force capability means that available biomass has at least some bearing on Force capability.

Also the Cyber processors could interfere with the biorhythms of the user, disrupting their ability to draw on the Force. Depending on how they are powered (drawing upon the user's bodies for sugars, or electrical impulses, etc) they could have a draining effect, or if they have powerful batteries, that could set up interference patterns within their body (not many Force Users are shown wearing Power Armor).

Though I agree, in the end it may be to fiddly to bother with.

Arguing that the use of cybernetics reduce Force capability means that available biomass has at least some bearing on Force capability. This must be the case if removing an arm reduces one's Force powers. Ergo, the most powerful potential Force Sensitive in the galaxy, that we've seen on screen, would be a Hutt.

Also, if available biomass increases Force capability, how is Yoda so powerful?

It could be that the Force flows through a living being in a certain way, and losing important parts disrupts that flow--biomass is irrelevant.

Arguing that the use of cybernetics reduce Force capability means that available biomass has at least some bearing on Force capability. This must be the case if removing an arm reduces one's Force powers. Ergo, the most powerful potential Force Sensitive in the galaxy, that we've seen on screen, would be a Hutt.

Also, if available biomass increases Force capability, how is Yoda so powerful?

It could be that the Force flows through a living being in a certain way, and losing important parts disrupts that flow--biomass is irrelevant.

Almost as if force-sensitives had symbiotic micro-organisms within them that acted as conduits to contact the force...

Seriously though, everyone's sidestepping the "M" word with all this biomass talk. Maybe they don't play well with mechanic parts, maybe losing an arm or leg loses a big chunk of them that doesn't get replaced.

Some interesting thoughts in this thread though guys.

Arguing that the use of cybernetics reduce Force capability means that available biomass has at least some bearing on Force capability. This must be the case if removing an arm reduces one's Force powers. Ergo, the most powerful potential Force Sensitive in the galaxy, that we've seen on screen, would be a Hutt.

Also, if available biomass increases Force capability, how is Yoda so powerful?

It could be that the Force flows through a living being in a certain way, and losing important parts disrupts that flow--biomass is irrelevant.

Almost as if force-sensitives had symbiotic micro-organisms within them that acted as conduits to contact the force...

Seriously though, everyone's sidestepping the "M" word with all this biomass talk. Maybe they don't play well with mechanic parts, maybe losing an arm or leg loses a big chunk of them that doesn't get replaced.

Some interesting thoughts in this thread though guys.

Midichlorians are stupid. That's the long and short of it.

I'd prefer to think of the Force as, well, a force . Maybe like chi, or some such, where a person's body resonates within and with the Force, and losing limbs disturbs that resonance.

Or, Vader just never bothered with Force Lightning, because he was a ******* master with a lightsaber, and really liked choking people?

Or, Vader just never bothered with Force Lightning, because he was a ******* master with a lightsaber, and really liked choking people?

Vader, and Luke, knew what was up. They're not bothering with fancy stuff like lightning. They use Bind and go straight for crit'ing the minions.

Or, Vader just never bothered with Force Lightning, because he was a ******* master with a lightsaber, and really liked choking people?