I've flipped through the book a bit, but haven't found the rule, and of course the Index is worthless (c'mon FFG, it's not that hard to organize a rule book!).

In AoR, certian large vehicals (Dreadnauts, star destroyers) had the Massive (x) rule- Any attack against them treats the critical rating of the fired weapon as if it was (x) larger- so a laser cannon that normally crits with 3 advantage, against a MAssive 2 Star Destroyer, you would need 5 advantage to score a critical hit.

In AoR, certian large vehicals (Dreadnauts, star destroyers) had the Massive (x) rule- Any attack against them treats the critical rating of the fired weapon as if it was (x) larger- so a laser cannon that normally crits with 3 advantage, against a MAssive 2 Star Destroyer, you would need 5 advantage to score a critical hit.

Ah. Thanks.

Can't seem to find that anywhere in the F&D book, yet we have the Exhaust Port talent.

In AoR, certian large vehicals (Dreadnauts, star destroyers) had the Massive (x) rule- Any attack against them treats the critical rating of the fired weapon as if it was (x) larger- so a laser cannon that normally crits with 3 advantage, against a MAssive 2 Star Destroyer, you would need 5 advantage to score a critical hit.

Ah. Thanks.

Can't seem to find that anywhere in the F&D book, yet we have the Exhaust Port talent.

Well there aren't any massive ships in there either. Its a core rulebook, so it takes into account things that are in unreleased supplements.

In AoR, certian large vehicals (Dreadnauts, star destroyers) had the Massive (x) rule- Any attack against them treats the critical rating of the fired weapon as if it was (x) larger- so a laser cannon that normally crits with 3 advantage, against a MAssive 2 Star Destroyer, you would need 5 advantage to score a critical hit.

Ah. Thanks.

Can't seem to find that anywhere in the F&D book, yet we have the Exhaust Port talent.

Well there aren't any massive ships in there either. Its a core rulebook, so it takes into account things that are in unreleased supplements.

It's a poor idea to put a rule with a broken reference in a core rulebook. It's not a great idea to do so in a supplement, either, but it's not as bad, because the assumption is that the player(s) have the CRB. The reverse is not true. They could have taken the extra 3 lines of text to explain the rule in the talent's full description. You know, like for D&D 3.x/Pathfinder that include "Normal" at the end of feats that modify a common rule so you don't have to go searching through the whole book (or other books) to figure out how something works.

In an effort to make each game compatible you will run into things like this from time to time. Just as some talents won't be fully realized until information comes out that will take them into account.

I assume this is to mimic Luke's use of the Force, given the talent's namesake. An easy fix would be to include one capitol ship with this feature, and a blurb on the massive property. I own AoR and I agree that that talent sould not be included if they don't intend to provide the rules to give it use. Otherwise you end up with the exact scenario we have here. Confusion.

In an effort to make each game compatible you will run into things like this from time to time. Just as some talents won't be fully realized until information comes out that will take them into account.

I assume capital ships aren't to be a big part of F&D, so the inclusion of "Exhaust Port" was a poor idea, IMO. I'm all for forward compatibility, but having a "useless" Talent in a CRB seems well, useless. If they add in the Massive rule them it's good. Otherwise I'd change it to something else (although it's a good Talent).

Having not seen F&D I don't know if the included capitol ships. But that doesn't mean that they won't in a future F&D supplement. Also, remember this is a beta. Feel free to mention this to FFG and in all likelihood the Massive rule be included in the actual CRB as it is just a few lines of throwaway text. I would imagine the alpha for F&D was still being put together when the AoR CRB came out so this blurb may have been missed. The info was added to AoR after its beta. I wouldn't be surprised to see it in ship qualities in the final F&D.

Could also be they will release it with a couple massive ships but saved the pages in the beta since those numbers are hammered out. I imagine they'd a) rather test the balance of new ships and b) assume most of their Beta base have access to the other books for such things.

Alternately it could be forward support, just like we saw in EotE/AoR about crafting items, when item crafting rules aren't yet in place. I personally don't have anything against that.

Good point. There may be big ships in the final book. In any case, it needs either a swap or addition of the Massive rules. I disagree that because there may be future supplements fearuring ships with Massive that it's OK to have a character limited until that piece is released. That's one of the reasons I dislike the Weighted Head attachment. AFAIK nothing in EotE allows it's use (FH might have something in it, but I just got it and haven't read much yet). Even then, I'd be happier if things like Weighted Head and Massive were supported in the book they appear in. If it's a matter of compatibility, simply have it appear in a book with full rules that apply backwards. As an example DC has a bunch of attachments not featured in the CRB.

There are Sil 5 capital ships in F&D: ADZ-Class Destroyer, CR90 Corvette, IR-3F-Class Light Frigate. Don't know if those count, but if they don't there was no need to include Exhaust Port in this book. At the very least, it should come with the text of the Massive Rule affixed to it so people know what the talent they just purchased does without having to hunt through other books.

Even if they do include the Massive rules there needs to be something massive to affect! Luckily, that Talent's not a stepping stone, so you can ignore it.

Even if they do include the Massive rules there needs to be something massive to affect! Luckily, that Talent's not a stepping stone, so you can ignore it.

I'm not thrilled with the inclusion of rules that only exist to work on some other product (like Weighted Head), as I believe those should simply be bundled with whichever book has the things those rules work with, but I wouldn't be overly annoyed about it if the book containing the talent or upgrade or whatever spelled out what it did, and maybe mentioned that it has no effect on anything in the book (to head off people getting frustrated by rummaging through the book looking for something that isn't there).

Besides, I think it's perfectly okay for that talent to be exclusive to Ace Gunner, as I think maintaining incentives to "cross-class" into specializations from other books is a good thing.

The problem is that Exaust Port is there for people who want to repeat Luke's trick with the Death Star, which presumably had Massive (not happening, buddy)

Not having the talent in the jedi book, when it was done using the force in the movies, would be growled at.

Well, he very likely had picked up some of Ace Gunner, and possibly Ace Pilot as well, and the part he used with the Force was getting the shot in the hole, which is covered by Intuitive Strike.

Well, he very likely had picked up some of Ace Gunner, and possibly Ace Pilot as well, and the part he used with the Force was getting the shot in the hole, which is covered by Intuitive Strike.

Or not.

I've noticed people tend to want to make movie character ridiculous XP monsters, taking every action the characters take and applying the entire spec to it. Luke can be just as easily represented by a starter level Starfighter Ace. Anakin in TPM as well for that matter...

Something I've kicked around with reasonable success is: Try running A New Hope with nothing but starter level characters. There's some minor issues, mostly with the Falcon's mods, but if you focus only on what you see in the movie (and not all the EU you want to see) it's doable.

What does exhaust port do?

It lets Luke Skywalker blow up your fully operational battle station

I've noticed people tend to want to make movie character ridiculous XP monsters, taking every action the characters take and applying the entire spec to it. Luke can be just as easily represented by a starter level Starfighter Ace. Anakin in TPM as well for that matter...

Exactly that.

I remember that old page for the Alexandrian where he took a look at the D&D 3.5 rules and showed that most heroes and their deeds are do-able with level 3-5 characters.

I'll dig up a link later on.

I've noticed people tend to want to make movie character ridiculous XP monsters, taking every action the characters take and applying the entire spec to it. Luke can be just as easily represented by a starter level Starfighter Ace. Anakin in TPM as well for that matter...

Exactly that.

I remember that old page for the Alexandrian where he took a look at the D&D 3.5 rules and showed that most heroes and their deeds are do-able with level 3-5 characters.

I'll dig up a link later on.

http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/587/roleplaying-games/dd-calibrating-your-expectations-2

In an effort to make each game compatible you will run into things like this from time to time. Just as some talents won't be fully realized until information comes out that will take them into account.

I assume capital ships aren't to be a big part of F&D, so the inclusion of "Exhaust Port" was a poor idea, IMO. I'm all for forward compatibility, but having a "useless" Talent in a CRB seems well, useless. If they add in the Massive rule them it's good. Otherwise I'd change it to something else (although it's a good Talent).

Massive is in AoR. It's already out in the wilds...

Since the stats for massive ships are in the companion game, reference to it is of value. (Perhaps a note to "see Age of Rebellion" would be in order.)

In an effort to make each game compatible you will run into things like this from time to time. Just as some talents won't be fully realized until information comes out that will take them into account.

I assume capital ships aren't to be a big part of F&D, so the inclusion of "Exhaust Port" was a poor idea, IMO. I'm all for forward compatibility, but having a "useless" Talent in a CRB seems well, useless. If they add in the Massive rule them it's good. Otherwise I'd change it to something else (although it's a good Talent).

Massive is in AoR. It's already out in the wilds...

Since the stats for massive ships are in the companion game, reference to it is of value. (Perhaps a note to "see Age of Rebellion" would be in order.)

Or since massive ships are in F&D the rule just needs to be included. But since this is a beta finding stuff like this and noting them is kind of the point of having a beta.