Reading through some of the threads about the new faction, and certain negative reactions to it, I had an interesting realization. I've been following the Star Wars revitalization since the very beginning, and I had an interesting realization today.

I won't say it's the ONLY time I've seen the "That wasn't in the OT so I don't care about it", but it's certainly worse than I think I've ever seen before, in both breadth and intensity. This strikes me as weird.

I remember when the bounty hunters appeared in Decipher's SWCCG, everyone thought seeing their ships was awesome. When we got names for every half-glimpsed alien in the cantina, nobody complained. TIE Fighter's introduction of the Defender created a fanboy dream that lives to this very day, and expanded the selection of ships my an order of magnitude. Dark Forces didn't go down in flames as people threw a fit over the design of a ship nobody had ever seen or a dark Jedi nobody had heard of, and I don't know of anyone who refused to play it because the hero was named Kyle instead of Luke.

Again, not saying there wasn't some opposition to it, but I don't remember anything near what we're seeing here.

Is this limited to X-wing? Is it a general Star Wars thing? EU fatigue? What happened to turn the joy of seeing a universe we loved expanding into a walling off of the "pure"?

I don't understand it either. I'm an old timer Star Wars fan - Saw Star Wars in 1977 when I was 8 years old before it was even Episode IV. I've loved the EU since Splinter of the Mind's Eye and the Han Solo Adventures. I like the Special Editions, I like the EU (but realize there are some total stinker novels in it), I like the prequels, The Clone Wars, looking forward to Rebels and the new films. I just LOVE everything Star Wars and refuse to limit myself to only liking the first three movies.

I'm thrilled with the new faction, can't wait to be able to buy the S&V ships. Still hope they do more and more EU ships, ships from Rebels, ships from the new movies, and ships from the prequels. If they make it and the game stays as fresh and fun as it is now, I'll buy it. So will all the people I game with.

Jim

Because so much of the EU is garbage. There are good parts, and even good parts that belong in X-Wing, but there is also a lot of milking of the cash cow. For example, the Z-95 was a very good choice, it's a ship that has existed since 1978 and has continued to appear in a wide range of EU sources. But contrast that with some random TIE variant that appeared in one video game and was immediately forgotten. I don't want to see FFG start getting into those obscure EU ships that hardly anyone knows about because they're just not very interesting.

Because so much of the EU is garbage. There are good parts, and even good parts that belong in X-Wing, but there is also a lot of milking of the cash cow. For example, the Z-95 was a very good choice, it's a ship that has existed since 1978 and has continued to appear in a wide range of EU sources. But contrast that with some random TIE variant that appeared in one video game and was immediately forgotten. I don't want to see FFG start getting into those obscure EU ships that hardly anyone knows about because they're just not very interesting.

I can't disagree with the statement that a lot of the EU is crap. But I think that the ship designs can still be good even though a lot of the stories are just published fan-fic level writing. FFG seems to be sticking to the better ship designs (see the RPG books for examples of this) and as long as they continue to do that, I'll welcome their new additions to the game.

Edited to add: I really, really, really want a Ghtroc-720 for X-Wing!

Jim

Won't try to speak for everyone. Forrest of all, many here embrace the EU. I think some of the EU is good, some is awful. I for one hate the look of the star viper. Others think it's awesome. Some of it is an age thing. I am 42, and the OT is star wars to me. I also like the defender because xwing vs tie fighter was part of my youth as well. I don't like the prequels, but I can appreciate those who do, and I think they have helped usher in a new generation of fans. To me, you can't just slap the words star wars on something and make it so. Because I love it, and because it is a big part of my childhood, I am protective of it. I am not saying that's a good thing. The syck fighter for instance: never heard of it, it does not look like it belongs, it is ugly in my eyes. I don't like the ig whatever it is either. It looks like a bug, not a ship. Again, all simply my own opinion. I have read some of the EU books and played most of the video games, but there is a fair amount of EU I have not covered. I like the hawk, the defender and the Phantom. I am not wild about the Ewing. But that's just me. I suspect more of your hard line OT guys are old times like me. But it's you universe too. So have fun with it.

Like 2 people have said they only want OT

Dare I say it's a good thing those individuals are not in charge?

(Yeah that was king of mean...)

Like 2 people have said they only want OT

Granted, they are very, very, loud...people.

Still, it's hardly a problem limited to this hobby, specifically. There are people that are just...like that. Can't actually enjoy something unless they can define it to exclude other things.

I certainly agree that a lot of the EU is crap. And "I hate the Star Viper, it's ugly" is something I can understand completely. That's not necessarily what I'm talking about.

It's more the very broad rejection of, well, everything that didn't appear on screen by 1983. If people were picking and choosing the pieces they liked based on the silliness of an item, or the aesthetics, that's fine... but "Bounty hunters don't belong in the game" and "I won't buy anything that didn't appear in the OT" are a completely different beast that I honestly had never encountered before X-wing, despite being in Star Wars gaming for as long as it's existed, in pretty much all its forms.

Like 2 people have said they only want OT

It's actually a lot more common than that. There may be a couple of very vocal people about it here, but it's a common thread of discussion over on BGG as well.

Here is my take on the whole thing if you are playing say Tie Fighter. There are pirate ships in that game and the defender neither were in the OT. You played with the defender and against the pirates anyways. Now they are in this game so really since you are playing this game and it is in this game you should be ok to play with and against those ships. Also IG-88 and a few other bounty hunters were in the OT even though you didn't see their ships.

On a separate note. I love the EU I like seeing the universe expanded. I think alot of the EU is great I will also admit there are parts of it that should have been nixed long before seeing the light of day. I think anyone who appreciates star wars would like timothy zahns novels and the other novels that came out not too long after his. I really don't like the prequels and it dawned on me the other day. They didn't have the same target audience of the OT they targeted a slightly younger generation, plus the casting of anakin was crap.

I figure most miniatures games are older people and probably also take things and their fandom rather seriously. That combination usually turns into people who are bitter about the prequels.

I love the prequels, OT, Clone wars, and am pumped for Rebels and Sequels. <3 Star Wars, not just one part of it.

While there are many aspects of Star Wars that I don't enjoy, there's so much stuff in this franchise that it's nearly impossible for someone to not like something outside of the movies or shows or books or games that brought them in. I love the ships, and I love this game and that's why I play and buy for this game. For example, I think the TIE Phantom is a POS in terms of it's design and I'm not terribly fond of the M3-A Interceptor, but I'm not going to let that ruin the game for me and I'm still going to get at least one of each of them. Hell, people think I'm crazy for my love of the Z-95 and A-Wings but I still love running the things on a fairly regular basis. To each their own. People here are complaining about the look of the Star Viper and here I am with the desire to buy at least two of them, maybe even three if they're -really- awesome in terms of their dials and pilot abilities.

The point is people are always going to complain about something. Star Wars fans, because there are so very many of them, come from the best and worst of personalities and attitudes about things. I just say f*ck it and move on with my life because it's not going to wreck my enjoyment of what I like. :3

I was 8 when ST:ANH came out in 1977. I saw all the OT in the theater back then and I've been a fanboy ever since.

I get that to some folks the only "real" version of even the OT is the "unedited, original, blah blah" version. Beyond that, how much screen time did the A-Wings and B-Wings *really* get in ST:RotJ? A few minutes at best? Does that make them some super awesome iconic ship? Not really, no at least to me. Show an X-Wing to many non-fanboys and they'll probably know where it's from. Show them an A-Wing and ask the same question.

I love all the ships, and options and everything else that's coming out for this game. And being one of those "older people" I quite enjoy these new options. I've read some of the EU, but didn't find it all to my liking - mostly more from the individual author styles than anything else. The notion of an expanding universe for SW is great. Bring it on. If I find that there's something in the upcoming releases that I'm not terribly fond of, I won't buy it.

In another thread, someone made the comment along the lines of "my fun may not equal your fun" and the reverse is true. If someone just loves the OT stuff, great. Play on. If someone loves every ship that comes out, that's great too. It's not a zero sum game where one person having more ships or more fun with the Scum and Villainy must mean that someone else must have less fun as a result.

It's a big ol' universe out there. Lots of room for all of us to play in it.

I really don't like the prequels and it dawned on me the other day. They didn't have the same target audience of the OT they targeted a slightly younger generation, plus the casting of anakin was crap.

I was 6 years old when ANH came out - considering all of the books, toys, comics and just about everything else I got that year, it certainly felt like that film was targeted at someone of my age .

As an official old codger I can safely blame the youth of today - they're clearly more easily pleased than us oldies

I'll admit I was surprised they optioned the TIE Phantom, since it's possibly the most obscure ship source-wise they've used thus far.

What I don't understand is why it matters where a ship/pilot originated. Who cares? Does it add new and interesting options to the game? If so, why should anyone care if it's well-known in the Star Wars universe?

The majority of pilot cards in X-wing are from the EU, as the movies give very few actual squadron or pilot names. Anyone who disregards the EU is limiting themselves thusly:

Empire:

1. No TIE Fighters. The movies give no names to TIE Fighter squadrons nor to any individual pilot. All squad names and notable pilots originate purely from the EU or were retcon'd into the movies via the EU.
2. Only Darth Vader is allowed for the TIE Advanced, and probably shouldn't be allowed at all since the TIE Advanced isn't identified as such until the EU.
3. No TIE Interceptors. See #1.
4. No TIE Bombers. See #1.
5. No TIE Defenders.
6. Only Captain Kagi is allowed for the Lambda-class Shuttle, though he's only mentioned in passing at the end of Episode III, and his use of the Lambda-class shuttle is never technically confirmed.
7. No VT-49 Decimator.
8. Only Boba Feet is allowed for the Firespray; again, technically shouldn't be allowed since the Firespray designation isn't identified until the EU.

Rebels:

• For X-wings, only the following are allowed: Red Squadron Pilot, Biggs Darklighter, Jek Porkins, Luke Skywalker, Wedge Antilles.
• Only the Gold Squadron Pilot and Grey Squadron Pilot are allowed for Y-wings.
• Only the Green Squadron Pilot is allowed for A-wings.
• No B-wings. The movies give no names to B-wing squadrons nor to any individual pilot. All squad names and notable pilots originate purely from the EU or were retcon'd into the movies via the EU. Technically speaking, the term "B-wing" doesn't even appear in the RotJ script at all.
• No E-wings.
• No Z-95s.
• No HKW-290s.
• Chewbacca, Lando Calrissian, and Han Solo are allowed for the YT-1300, although the ship designation doesn't appear until the EU.
• No YT-2400. This ship is the ultimate in movie retcon technology; it's only seen once, briefly, at the beginning of Episode IV, and only the EU gives it any kind of definition.
• No GR-75 Medium Transport. Again, you technically see it in Episode V, but only the EU gives it a classification.
• No CR-90 Corvette. Technically seen in Episode IV, but isn't given a classification until the EU.

I'm one of the younger guys. I was born in 1988, and I never got to see any of the OT in theaters, not even the Special Edition (I didn't even know it was in theaters at the time despite the huge campaign. I just thought they were drawing attention to the old movies I loved and was like, "Good! Make more people aware of the thing I like!" But I digress...).

I did read a lot of the books and played the old West End roleplaying game, and when it comes to Star Wars, there are very few things in the EU I don't like. I tend to approach the EU the same way I do a history book. Each chapter covers something that happened, for whatever reason. If the reason doesn't make sense to me, I don't dismiss it, because I know that the characters believe it to be a legitimate reason, so if it makes sense to them it makes sense to me. Granted, this doesn't always work. I detested the New Jedi Order trilogy, simply because Kevin J. Anderson's work drew me out of the story with its constant references to the Original Trilogy and stupid things happening. The battle in the Cauldron Nebula was an exercise in fan-wanking, with the Death Star Prototype and Star Destroyer battle, and it felt like a fanboy's wet dream.

But that doesn't stop me from liking starship designs. In fact, I've said before that there are few starship designs I outright detest, if that. In fact, I don't really hate any ship design. Some I'm sort of neutral on, but most of them I think have their own sort of Star Wars-y charm, even the obviously thrown-together ones.

I've never thought of the EU as something which is "inferior" to the Original Trilogy. It's my window into that universe, a universe I want to explore to its deepest depths. Will everything be pretty that I see? Nope. But I still want to explore it and see what's out there.

I'm 43 and really don't like EU. I've always "felt" it was a bit of a cash cow thing. I know it wasn't, it was giving the fans more of what they wanted.

I was 7,10 and 13 when the films came out, had loads of figures and ships and many happy memories. Show me a tie phantom now and I go "meh!". No memories, no emotional connection.

I want to be reminded of my childhood, and EU doesn't do that. Everyone saw the films, not everyone played the games, not everyone read the books.

My 2 cents

I don't mind EU ships, although I do find a few kinda ugly. The new scum fighter is particularly ugly I think, and some of the other bounty hunter ships that might get included now aren't that great either IMO.

What really grinds my gears is FFG's position on ships in the game. They are so contradicting. They have no problems including ships that are older than heck (z-95s, ywings, firesprays, etc), or even ships that don't appear until years after the OT movie period is over (e-wing, and hinting at doing ep7 ships), but for some reason prequel/clone wars ships are a big no no. I just don't get it. I think it's purely hatred for those movies and nothing else.

I'm hoping they prove me wrong and use the scum faction as a way to incorporate some of those ships, but I'm not holding my breath.

I don't think that many hardcore OT people are around, and even then most of them probably left at wave 4 or earlier with their "complete" collections. There were a few opinion validation-seeking threads back then about things like "I think there should be an OT-only tournament format" or "is anyone else done collecting X-wing now?" but there were very few people who responded in agreement.

There are some new voices of complaint now that ships outside of the traditional Rebel vs Imperial format are surfacing, but imo it's a bit childish to complain just because you didn't get the thing you wanted. Some people didn't particularly want the scum and villainy ships, myself included, and maybe wanted to see an imperial capital ship or some new aces pack or whatever, but quite a few other people have expressed interest in it. It's quite selfish to complain about new content just because "it's not the new content I wanted." Hopefully things will settle down soon and we will start to see more maturity and the realization that the game and the franchise mean different things to different people and like all things we can't always have our way.

@Takeda

Let's just say I took offence at that summary

"Basement dwelling broke individuals"......really.

Not that its relevant but I have a sizeable collection of ships, multiple Firesprays, numerous imperial aces sets, a full swarm of ties.

I support this game fully. You feel you can sit in judgement of me? Nice.

On a separate note. I love the EU I like seeing the universe expanded. I think alot of the EU is great I will also admit there are parts of it that should have been nixed long before seeing the light of day. I think anyone who appreciates star wars would like timothy zahns novels and the other novels that came out not too long after his. I really don't like the prequels and it dawned on me the other day. They didn't have the same target audience of the OT they targeted a slightly younger generation, plus the casting of anakin was crap.

Yep, because kids love movies with extended scenes debating trade treaties Seriously though, the handling of Anakin generally throughout the prequels was just weak. He starts as an annoying kid, becomes an angsty teenager, and ends as a raging **** who murders children. There's no emotional investment, no sympathy, in his turn, at least for me, because it feels like it only really happens because it needs to for Darth Vader to be a thing.

As for the actual topic at hand, I haven't really seen what the OP is talking about, i.e. OT only, as much as an attitude against seeing prequel ships. I'm definitely part of that camp, in the same way I'd also prefer to not go any further along the EU timeline than we already have with the E-wing. The stuff we have in X-wing now, shaky provenance of the Phantom aside(though I do have a Rebel Assault II disc around somewhere, I did a double take when Wave 4 debuted and I saw they were actually including that thing), and the Decimator and upcoming Syck(both of which were new for Star Wars Galaxies, correct?), is stuff that's been around since the 90s. X-wing Miniatures, right now, covers the swath of Star Wars that I grew up with. It's part of why I like it so much. It's probably a bit selfish but I'd like it to stay that way. With FFG reiterating that X-wing is a Galactic Civil War era game, it seems they agree, to an extent, but I guess we'll see what happens.

@Takeda

Let's just say I took offence at that summary

"Basement dwelling broke individuals"......really.

Not that its relevant but I have a sizeable collection of ships, multiple Firesprays, numerous imperial aces sets, a full swarm of ties.

I support this game fully. You feel you can sit in judgement of me? Nice.

Nothing personal we are all Xwing fans here . I just get passionate at EU stuff.

On a separate note. I love the EU I like seeing the universe expanded. I think alot of the EU is great I will also admit there are parts of it that should have been nixed long before seeing the light of day. I think anyone who appreciates star wars would like timothy zahns novels and the other novels that came out not too long after his. I really don't like the prequels and it dawned on me the other day. They didn't have the same target audience of the OT they targeted a slightly younger generation, plus the casting of anakin was crap.

Yep, because kids love movies with extended scenes debating trade treaties Seriously though, the handling of Anakin generally throughout the prequels was just weak. He starts as an annoying kid, becomes an angsty teenager, and ends as a raging **** who murders children. There's no emotional investment, no sympathy, in his turn, at least for me, because it feels like it only really happens because it needs to for Darth Vader to be a thing.

I will give you the treaties but I counter with JarJar and the three stoogesk droids.

I've never got the impression that there was any particularly strong OT only feeling around here or anywhere else

I DO think there is a strong feeling that the OT ships should always remain relevant and competitive

and rightly so

I was born in 1982 and as I was a baby, I didn't see any of the OT in the theater.(I have since yelled at my mom for not taking me as an infant, but that is another story):-) Anyway I got into Star Wars about mid 90, I guess right before the Special Editions, and loved everything I could get my hands on. Movies, video games, comics, toys, etc.(I had to yell at mymom again for selling all my toys at a yard sale, but that is still another story) But the thing that I really loved about Star Wars was all the EU novels. I have read/own over 100 of them. Sure some where not the best and were not breaking literary ground, but there was hardly ever a time in my high school days when a Star Wars book was not in my backpack. Then came the prequels, and while they were not as good as the OT, Istill really enjoyed them and the Clone Wars too. That is one of the reasons I am pissed at Disney, because the EU is now gone. So anyway as far as Xwing goes, the more EU ships, the better because that keeps it alive.