Precisely why I didn't mention it to anyone is charge.

The rules also say the TO has the final say on if something is allowed or not. So in the case mentioned I'd be shocked if a TO actually had an issue with it.

'Homemade' cards (even DagobahDave's, which are fantastic by the way, and would be awesome to bust out in a casual game) could confuse things and in a timed game that's unacceptable.

I didn't design those. I found them here:

http://kesselrun.byethost12.com/

I should make it clear that I don't consider tournaments to be casual play. I sort of missed that part in the first post of this thread. If you show up to a tournament where there's an entry fee and prize support, as TO I might be lenient about a single replacement ship card if it's obvious that you do own the ship token, but I wouldn't allow replacement upgrade cards. There is a pay-to-play aspect to tournaments. So be careful with that soda pop.

Define shape? Is it profile? Top down? The model itself was modified, but it "kept it's arms and leg inside the vehicle at all times" so it could go either way

Exactly. Hell, in the last tourney I played one of the guys I played against played most of the game without the model 'cause it was getting in the way.

As long as the base is there and proper, I personally wouldn't care if he had a rubber octopus on a peg and said that Vuffi Raa was attacking me.

The more customized ships, the better.

Couldn't care less so long as the text was accurate.

Couldn't care less so long as the text was accurate.

But then you have to check each card to make sure it's accurate, and so will everyone else who plays that person.

I've been working on making my own Garven, Dutch, and Kyle cards for the game since I use those pilots the most. I have atleast 2 of each card but I was gonna find screen caps of the characters in the movies and the cutscenes from dark forces 2. Obviously I wouldn't change the text and if I would bring them to a tourney I'd put them in a sleeve on the back side of the regular card so if there was a problem I could flip it over and there's the original card.

I wouldn't use them myself, but I wouldn't mind others doing so. Pay to win is a negative, not a positice, and in any case how is it any different from using custom range rulers?

I'd prefer that people own the real cards, but I don't really care much about the issue--I don't see how not spending the 30 bucks for the engine upgrade actually effects the game. I would leave the issue to the store/TO, the store is the one affected by the player not owning the cards, not me.

If it isn't a game I'm in, I stay out of completely. I also think people shouldn't talk to players in a game that isn't their own about the game that person is playing--advise or otherwise unless its a simple rules question.

and in any case how is it any different from using custom range rulers?

Because I can quickly and easily check your range ruler to make sure it's correct. Or if I want, I can have the TO make us both use the same set, so everything is even.

However home made cards means that there may be changes on the cards that may or may not get spotted until the final round of the tournament.

Besides, the rules are quite clear on the matter. I just don't see why this is such a difficult concept for people. Why is following the rules considered a matter open to debate?

I wouldn't use them myself, but I wouldn't mind others doing so. Pay to win is a negative, not a positice, and in any case how is it any different from using custom range rulers?

The rules say you can use a range ruler and templates as long as both players agree, they also say you can't use proxy cards. There is only one way to come down on this issue. It's very black or white.

and in any case how is it any different from using custom range rulers?

Because I can quickly and easily check your range ruler to make sure it's correct. Or if I want, I can have the TO make us both use the same set, so everything is even.

However home made cards means that there may be changes on the cards that may or may not get spotted until the final round of the tournament.

Besides, the rules are quite clear on the matter. I just don't see why this is such a difficult concept for people. Why is following the rules considered a matter open to debate?

...and you can easily check your own cards, or X-Wing Companian, or whatever, to check if his version of the card matches the actual one. Again, no actual difference from using custom range rules.

True, but we were discussing the why, not the what.

and in any case how is it any different from using custom range rulers?

Because I can quickly and easily check your range ruler to make sure it's correct. Or if I want, I can have the TO make us both use the same set, so everything is even.

However home made cards means that there may be changes on the cards that may or may not get spotted until the final round of the tournament.

Besides, the rules are quite clear on the matter. I just don't see why this is such a difficult concept for people. Why is following the rules considered a matter open to debate?

...and you can easily check your own cards, or X-Wing Companian, or whatever, to check if his version of the card matches the actual one. Again, no actual difference from using custom range rules.

I wouldn't use them myself, but I wouldn't mind others doing so. Pay to win is a negative, not a positice, and in any case how is it any different from using custom range rulers?

The rules say you can use a range ruler and templates as long as both players agree, they also say you can't use proxy cards. There is only one way to come down on this issue. It's very black or white.

True, but we were discussing the why, not the what.

Think of all the players who only fight for one side or the other but have to buy expansions outside thier preferred faction to get cards. If they allowed proxy cards in a tournament setting that would stop completely, and people would just print cards.

Now I'm no "Copy Right" expert but making a copy of a card featuring copy right protected art would be illegal, so there is that as well.

VanorDM, this discussion feels oddly familur doesn't it?

Again, no actual difference from using custom range rules.

No not at all the same. I have to check each and every home made card against the original, which I may or may not have with me. That means having to look it up somewhere. Which of course assumes I have something with me that will let me do that.

As opposed to setting you range ruler on mine and taking a look at them.

A lot of people nowadays have a sense of entitlement about entertainment products, and it's wrong and it's unethical.

If you want a card, or a ship, or a CD, or a TV show, or a movie; GO BUY IT.

Fancy a band? Don't steal their hard work, buy it.

Want to keep enjoying this fantastic game we play? Don't print off cards from the internet, buy them.

Stealing movies and television shows is wrong. Stealing cards is wrong too.

The concept is so so simple, but a lot of foolish people nowadays believe that if something's easy (i.e. stealing something without having to physically shoplift it), it's not wrong. It's just another way our society's pretty dumb. Don't contribute to the stupidity, buy your entertainment media!

A lot of people nowadays have a sense of entitlement about entertainment products, and it's wrong and it's unethical.

I'm one of those weird internet people that agrees with you 100% (okay, 90% - I'm not entirely guiltless).

If I'm expected to buy ships for cards, then my opponent is as well...

I am speaking strictly about tournament or sanctioned play. Casual? Proxy everything you want as far as anyone's concerned.

(That said, kids and young adults might not be able to afford everything us old-timers can... I wouldn't want someone to not play 'cause they had to eat... But then again - Borrow real cards).

Considering how cheap this game is at ~$15 a unit it's unlikely anyone needs to be missing meals

Considering how cheap this game is at ~$15 a unit it's unlikely anyone needs to be missing meals

I wouldn't say that... I spent three months living out of my car in my early 20's... There are times when you have to decide between fun and food...

Sometimes fun wins.

So.. 2 pages later...

Where are those card artworks avail from for DL?

I've sometimes wondered about the inverse question. If someone shows up at a tournament with (say) a home-printed copy of Daredevil that has the the FAQ-correct wording, is that ok? For the sake of argument, pretend you can see 1 interceptor in their collection for each Daredevil fielded.

I'd ask what's up. Did you spill Mountain Dew on your card, but you still have the original ship token? No problem, carry on. In casual play, I don't care. You can print out your squad list from Yet Another Squad Builder and run it entirely from that for all I care. It'd be really distracting if the ship models weren't legit, and in that case I'd be wondering why you're even playing, but the supporting material isn't that important really. It's like playing with acrylic tokens and templates. If you're going to play with printed cards, make them sexy like these (I'm talking about Backstabber and Boba Fett):

I don't see much of a difference between using third-party acrylic tokens and custom-printed (or replacement) cards. It's just bling. I draw the line at ship models and ship tokens -- these, at least, are hard to fake. But I have a hard time justifying why those things even matter in casual play. For FFG-sanctioned events, where the whole thing is basically a way to promote and advertise products, it's their show and they can run it however they want. Locally, casually -- who cares? Have fun.

Dude! I have to have that backstabber

I've sometimes wondered about the inverse question. If someone shows up at a tournament with (say) a home-printed copy of Daredevil that has the the FAQ-correct wording, is that ok? For the sake of argument, pretend you can see 1 interceptor in their collection for each Daredevil fielded.

That wouldn't be much of an issue... but would still "technically" be illegal. He would be free to have printed version of errata'd cards and/or the FAQ on hand however.

I would't mind someone using custom cards with the fancy snazzy art, so long as they had the actual card underneath - so when a rules question comes up and we must consult the card - we have the actual card also right there to view.

We really need to stop trying to find exceptions and just follow the rules.

We really need to stop trying to find exceptions and just follow the rules.

Pretty sure everyone here DOES.

The rules don't say weather or not you must run to the TO to tell on people who proxy cards that you observe.

I've only ever seen ONE person complain about someone to a TO and that was at regionals... he complained that his opponent was "stalling"... and almost every single person in the place was talking about him like he was a super huge jerk. So there really is some question about when you should be a tattle tale or not. That was my whole point, and my original question really. Interesting discussion so far.

I'd be okay with things. I run legit myself... but it's kind of ridiculous that you need to buy multiple Slave's in order to get stealth devices and whatnot. X-Wing is supposed to be about flying skills, etc... not how much money you have. FFG really needs to start selling packs of cards that you can buy to fill out your fleet, even though it isn't in their best interest. That being said, I'll contradict myself by saying that I want the player to at least have real ships. I don't want them sticking a piece of gum on a flight peg and saying it's a Tie Fighter. I want my game to look like X-Wing, not Gum-Wing.

I'd be okay with things. I run legit myself... but it's kind of ridiculous that you need to buy multiple Slave's in order to get stealth devices and whatnot. X-Wing is supposed to be about flying skills, etc... not how much money you have. FFG really needs to start selling packs of cards that you can buy to fill out your fleet, even though it isn't in their best interest. That being said, I'll contradict myself by saying that I want the player to at least have real ships. I don't want them sticking a piece of gum on a flight peg and saying it's a Tie Fighter. I want my game to look like X-Wing, not Gum-Wing.

If you don't want to buy multiple Slave 1's, don't run a list that needs Stealth device. It's not a hard concept, and in no way stops you from

a) being able to play

b) being able to be competitive.

I personally own 3 shuttles. Why? Because I wanted to run 3x B-Wings w/ Adv Sensors.

If I was unwilling/unable to buy the shuttles, I would have to have run another list - which still has every chance of being competitive.

There is no entitlement in this game. It is pay to play - much less so than every competitive miniatures game I can think of, but it is paying for entertainment. It is not your right to have access to everything.

In response to the OP, I would report it to the TO and not give it a second thought. They are cheating, and that is affecting my experience at the tournament.

In response to Punning Pundit - I have absolutely no quandry about someone printing a card with a FAQ/Errata correction, as long as:

a) the original card is in the sleeve underneath

b) I can match the errata'd card to the latest errata (which every tournament player should have in front of them.)