People deserve to loose if they make post like this...they are clearly NOT an X-Winger, they are random gamer tourist... who do not LOVE STAR WARS.

Scram!

Or get with the program.

I think this is a little over the top. Some people have opinions on the game because they enjoy it very much. When something affects the game they like in a way they do not like (in this case everyone rushes to falcons+3PO to counter phantoms and over saturates the game with similar lists) it may be something to discuss in detail without resorting to "you hate my fluff you're not a real Gamer" type comments.

Constructive comments that back up an opposite view will work better not only to develop a less saturated meta but also more civilized boards.

OP: I'm still trying to find a good Rebel squad (no turrets) that can go after Phantoms and Falcons as well. I've done very well countering Phantoms by activating a high pilot skill X or E and using R3-A2 and following with low skilled accurate shots. I'm still working on it but I find that Wes really does well with R3-A2 and effectively shuts down ACD and as a bonus, leaves him naked and alone facing the rest of your list.

I just get tired of bad players blaming FFG and everybody else for their own failures.

I am not trying to be a dicky-doo, but enough of this crybaby crap already.

It is negative useless static just clogging up our wonderful forum.

I just get tired of bad players blaming FFG and everybody else for their own failures.

I am not trying to be a dicky-doo, but enough of this crybaby crap already.

It is negative useless static just clogging up our wonderful forum.

Excessive abuse of smileys doesn't make you any less a "dickey-doo". The OP said nothing about his own performance, for all you know he won the event in question, so how much failure is involved is entirely unknown.

The meta has shifted, and Falcons and Phantoms very common. I disagree that this is universal, and think it'll work itself out, but nothing in that observation deserves this type of response.

Wait until the Decimator his shelves. Then we can have a thread about how that's destroying the meta.

I picked mine up at Gencon and so far I'm 4-0 with it, but only because the people I play with haven't figured out how to hard counter it yet. (Hint: It's a 0 Agility ship that can't K-turn or full stop. What kind of token would that ship hate?)

You'll be seeing more turret ships over the next cycle and you'll need to adapt your strategies. The Decimator gives Imperials a Falcon analogue and the YT-2400 is a new shiny. Expect to face them. They're not unbeatable, there's just a steeper learning curve.

I just get tired of bad players blaming FFG and everybody else for their own failures.

I am not trying to be a dicky-doo, but enough of this crybaby crap already.

It is negative useless static just clogging up our wonderful forum.

I am sorry, but didn't you claim that you pretty much only play against yourself ? I don't mean to be offensive (to each their own with their leisure time), but i don't think you are quite qualified to try to be a jerk in such fashion.

My only complaint about the phantom is 4 dice at range 3 is crazy.

I just get tired of bad players blaming FFG and everybody else for their own failures.

I am not trying to be a dicky-doo, but enough of this crybaby crap already.

It is negative useless static just clogging up our wonderful forum.

Excessive abuse of smileys doesn't make you any less a "dickey-doo". The OP said nothing about his own performance, for all you know he won the event in question, so how much failure is involved is entirely unknown.

The meta has shifted, and Falcons and Phantoms very common. I disagree that this is universal, and think it'll work itself out, but nothing in that observation deserves this type of response.

Yeah I was being a bit to gruff. I am not trying to attack the OP but these topics in general are of no use to the community IMO.

Yeah I was being a bit to gruff. I am not trying to attack the OP but these topics in general are of no use to the community IMO.

You could say the same about 90% of the content that passes through here.

I just get tired of bad players blaming FFG and everybody else for their own failures.

I am not trying to be a dicky-doo, but enough of this crybaby crap already.

It is negative useless static just clogging up our wonderful forum.

I am sorry, but didn't you claim that you pretty much only play against yourself ? I don't mean to be offensive (to each their own with their leisure time), but i don't think you are quite qualified to try to be a jerk in such fashion.

Solo play is even more of a challenge becuase you have to be fair. If you cheat then you are wasting your time, and you are being a jerk.

I like similes and find there use anything but excessive...

People deserve to loose if they make post like this...they are clearly NOT an X-Winger, they are random gamer tourist... who do not LOVE STAR WARS.Scram!

Or get with the program.

I think this is a little over the top. Some people have opinions on the game because they enjoy it very much. When something affects the game they like in a way they do not like (in this case everyone rushes to falcons+3PO to counter phantoms and over saturates the game with similar lists) it may be something to discuss in detail without resorting to "you hate my fluff you're not a real Gamer" type comments.

Constructive comments that back up an opposite view will work better not only to develop a less saturated meta but also more civilized boards.

OP: I'm still trying to find a good Rebel squad (no turrets) that can go after Phantoms and Falcons as well. I've done very well countering Phantoms by activating a high pilot skill X or E and using R3-A2 and following with low skilled accurate shots. I'm still working on it but I find that Wes really does well with R3-A2 and effectively shuts down ACD and as a bonus, leaves him naked and alone facing the rest of your list.

I just get tired of bad players blaming FFG and everybody else for their own failures.

I am not trying to be a dicky-doo, but enough of this crybaby crap already.

It is negative useless static just clogging up our wonderful forum.

Today I read through some pretty ridiculous threads that for some reason never got killed. They all contained the same type of posts. It occurred to me that for some reason people have become less about the discussion and more about vitriolic comments that attempt to discredit the post as "just another advanced fix post" or "that idea sounds stupid because it doesn't match my opinion of things as the way I see them".

I read a lot more than I post. I have noticed more than a good number of people who have posted in the past couple of years have come and gone rather quickly from the forums because instead of getting some help on their list or maybe some courteous feedback on their "fix" for the game they get heckled or pushed into arguments over the smallest things based on the fact that regulars have seen it "too many times".

This is the fastest growing miniatures game both in player base and in how quickly the expansions are being released. While Wookie Hunter is definitely not new to the forums, treating him as if his opinion is not valid because his topic pertains to something that you feel has been talked about too much is not progressing the general conversation about the meta. Which competitively, is very obviously dominated by the two particular builds stated in the OP.

Nobody here is an expert about the meta and I am not claiming to be. I do a good job at seeing things the way they are however and currently people play Falcons because the Phantoms have made a lot of Rebel lists that were good against swarms next to useless because the named phantom + ACD can very, very, effectively get behind every rebel below a PS of 7(of course turrets don't matter here). Rebel Pilots are expensive points wise to fly. They often have defensive rolls that fall flat with smaller amounts of dice. Only 3 rebel ships have the option to evade. The phantom effectively killed a lot of lists with mid pilot skill that did well and is sending rebel players, like myself, who don't fly the large ships back to the drawing board based off of one ship.

End rant.

Sorry about the mess.

Side note before I edit, I hate my phone but it is all I can post off of right now.

4/8 of the top 8 had Falcons.

Only the winning squad used a Phantom, and it was Whisper. 3/8 used Shuttles and Soontir Fel, and the other was a TIE swarm that eats Falcons like popcorn.

5/8 actually.

But anyways, i just think the falcon is an overreaction to the phantoms, and people haven't really had the time to sit down to play different lists. I don't find phantoms that hard to deal with (i mean, it is hard, but it is not impossible by any stretch).

The phantom, interceptor, and shuttle...3 ships the falcon should beat won nationals.

Falcons are fun to fly. Win or lose, I have fun with my Predator and Gunner/Luke Falcon(s). Does my VI Han or Roarked up Chewie hose Whisper and Echo? Yeah, but that is just a bonus. I mean, in one of those lists I'm flying a HWK, competitively, without a turret. Leave my Falcons alone.

just wait, soon the meta will be plagued with Outrider HLC's

I'm just tired of hearing everyone insist the falcon players are exceptionally skilled. Reroll everything without using an action and have a boost action at PS 9 on a very forgiving dial. Let's stop pretending successful falcon players are necessarily skilled. I mean, your only playing falcon good if you no get shot back Amright?!

With the advent of more and more maneuverable ships, Phantom, E-Wing, StarVyper, Vader, Aces A-wings to name a few, people will start to choose turrets or maneuver. Over time, maneuver will win out.

The this is what FFG are aiming for, more 1-1 fights and not just line up and shoot.

Outmaneuver is already a hard counter to the Fat Falcon as not only does it take your evade die, it stops C-3PO working as you roll no dice in defense. Now imagine that on 2-3, 3 dice attack ships or 5 Black Squadron's, how long will your 54 point plus Falcon last then?

The Phantom, I can already out fly that with Vader or Corran, however, they are vulnerable to other lists and so must have good ships to back them up.

The meta is in constant flux and that is good.

It's a combination of things.

1) 3PO - him combined with MF title means at least 2 hits cancelled per attack round on the ship (currently) with the most hit points in the game

2) Whisper/Echo with VI and ACD. They are like elite interceptors on steroids. More attack dice, just as hard to pin down if not more, and have a permanent stealth device every time they active the ACD.

3) Z-95s. Most falcon builds before could only have two escorts, but now with z95s they can have 3, or sometimes even 4.

I myself am a Firespray man. Surprisingly I have yet to lose to a phantom squad, but I have lost many times to the "fat falcon squads". But I do agree the normal 3-4 small ship rebel squads that used to be so common have a big disadvantage now against the phantoms and fat falcons.

I think it will all be sorted out. Falcons fall to focus fire. I just joust with them and get it over with. Phantoms I haven't been able to beat but I fly in formation and have a hard time breaking that habit but someone is going to crack the code.

The meta is in constant flux and that is good.

I can't wait to get down on some Aces A-wings. Hopefully they will also put some good effects on the meta as well.

People deserve to loose if they make post like this...they are clearly NOT an X-Winger, they are random gamer tourist... who do not LOVE STAR WARS.Scram!

Or get with the program.

I think this is a little over the top. Some people have opinions on the game because they enjoy it very much. When something affects the game they like in a way they do not like (in this case everyone rushes to falcons+3PO to counter phantoms and over saturates the game with similar lists) it may be something to discuss in detail without resorting to "you hate my fluff you're not a real Gamer" type comments.

Constructive comments that back up an opposite view will work better not only to develop a less saturated meta but also more civilized boards.

OP: I'm still trying to find a good Rebel squad (no turrets) that can go after Phantoms and Falcons as well. I've done very well countering Phantoms by activating a high pilot skill X or E and using R3-A2 and following with low skilled accurate shots. I'm still working on it but I find that Wes really does well with R3-A2 and effectively shuts down ACD and as a bonus, leaves him naked and alone facing the rest of your list.

I just get tired of bad players blaming FFG and everybody else for their own failures.

I am not trying to be a dicky-doo, but enough of this crybaby crap already.

It is negative useless static just clogging up our wonderful forum.

Today I read through some pretty ridiculous threads that for some reason never got killed. They all contained the same type of posts. It occurred to me that for some reason people have become less about the discussion and more about vitriolic comments that attempt to discredit the post as "just another advanced fix post" or "that idea sounds stupid because it doesn't match my opinion of things as the way I see them".

I read a lot more than I post. I have noticed more than a good number of people who have posted in the past couple of years have come and gone rather quickly from the forums because instead of getting some help on their list or maybe some courteous feedback on their "fix" for the game they get heckled or pushed into arguments over the smallest things based on the fact that regulars have seen it "too many times".

This is the fastest growing miniatures game both in player base and in how quickly the expansions are being released. While Wookie Hunter is definitely not new to the forums, treating him as if his opinion is not valid because his topic pertains to something that you feel has been talked about too much is not progressing the general conversation about the meta. Which competitively, is very obviously dominated by the two particular builds stated in the OP.

Nobody here is an expert about the meta and I am not claiming to be. I do a good job at seeing things the way they are however and currently people play Falcons because the Phantoms have made a lot of Rebel lists that were good against swarms next to useless because the named phantom + ACD can very, very, effectively get behind every rebel below a PS of 7(of course turrets don't matter here). Rebel Pilots are expensive points wise to fly. They often have defensive rolls that fall flat with smaller amounts of dice. Only 3 rebel ships have the option to evade. The phantom effectively killed a lot of lists with mid pilot skill that did well and is sending rebel players, like myself, who don't fly the large ships back to the drawing board based off of one ship.

End rant.

Sorry about the mess.

Side note before I edit, I hate my phone but it is all I can post off of right now.

Awesome post and I agree with you 100%!

With the advent of more and more maneuverable ships, Phantom, E-Wing, StarVyper, Vader, Aces A-wings to name a few, people will start to choose turrets or maneuver. Over time, maneuver will win out.

The this is what FFG are aiming for, more 1-1 fights and not just line up and shoot.

Outmaneuver is already a hard counter to the Fat Falcon as not only does it take your evade die, it stops C-3PO working as you roll no dice in defense. Now imagine that on 2-3, 3 dice attack ships or 5 Black Squadron's, how long will your 54 point plus Falcon last then?

The Phantom, I can already out fly that with Vader or Corran, however, they are vulnerable to other lists and so must have good ships to back them up.

The meta is in constant flux and that is good.

Attah boy!

Tell 'em how to be badass Wingers instead of annoying whiners!

Might help...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QCrNf_Y4KfA#t=553

So was the OP even at GenCon? Cause it sure sounds like he/she wasn't. I was. The list diversity was pretty amazing. Lots of falcons sure, but we still have not seen a list featuring a falcon win Nationals or Worlds (tho I tried!). The Shuttle on Saturday was the first big based ship to win at a national event. Give it up for Yorr! (and Rick).

So was the OP even at GenCon? Cause it sure sounds like he/she wasn't. I was. The list diversity was pretty amazing. Lots of falcons sure, but we still have not seen a list featuring a falcon win Nationals or Worlds (tho I tried!). The Shuttle on Saturday was the first big based ship to win at a national event. Give it up for Yorr! (and Rick).

While I obviously disagree with the OP (and have said so), is the standard truly going to be "If it hasn't won at Nationals or Worlds then any concerns about it are automatically invalid"?

Is the TIE Interceptor now vindicated because it has appeared at the top spot? If it is, then does that mean the Falcon is underpowered because it hasn't?

People deserve to loose if they make post like this...they are clearly NOT an X-Winger, they are random gamer tourist... who do not LOVE STAR WARS.

Scram!

Or get with the program.

I think this is a little over the top. Some people have opinions on the game because they enjoy it very much. When something affects the game they like in a way they do not like (in this case everyone rushes to falcons+3PO to counter phantoms and over saturates the game with similar lists) it may be something to discuss in detail without resorting to "you hate my fluff you're not a real Gamer" type comments.

Constructive comments that back up an opposite view will work better not only to develop a less saturated meta but also more civilized boards.

OP: I'm still trying to find a good Rebel squad (no turrets) that can go after Phantoms and Falcons as well. I've done very well countering Phantoms by activating a high pilot skill X or E and using R3-A2 and following with low skilled accurate shots. I'm still working on it but I find that Wes really does well with R3-A2 and effectively shuts down ACD and as a bonus, leaves him naked and alone facing the rest of your list.

I just get tired of bad players blaming FFG and everybody else for their own failures.

I am not trying to be a dicky-doo, but enough of this crybaby crap already.

It is negative useless static just clogging up our wonderful forum.

Tired is what I did got when the crap started to overwhelm this forum. Not unless we want to call each other names ( I would rather not). I was just bring the fact, the fact that 7 out of 8 people at my last tournament in the Los Angeles area was falcons. The other was a phantom. Overreaction maybe. I find it rediculous that the phantom alone is the cause of this. I hate that every list even my **** own was a falcon list. I have loved falcons since the day it was released and I guess I feel my area has been trampled by all the extra people all of a sudden just picking them up and dominating. I dont suck and am not complaining, I am just expressing my feelings on a forum like I should be able to and get half decent feedback on my probleam not necessariliy yours or his.

I'm just tired of hearing everyone insist the falcon players are exceptionally skilled. Reroll everything without using an action and have a boost action at PS 9 on a very forgiving dial. Let's stop pretending successful falcon players are necessarily skilled. I mean, your only playing falcon good if you no get shot back Amright?!

Easy there, Fella. My list uncludes two YT-1300s. A near-naked Han and a super fat Chewie. I like them because they bring the pain AND take a lot of hits. I've modified the list three times, and every time I changed it, they complained about the one specific thing I modified. I somehow broke the ship and made it OP. Complain about my Gunner? Fine. Gunner's out (I think they really aren't worth it any way). Assault missiles are unfair to TIE swarm? Fine. Chewie with DTF and APL is unfair, too?! I've altered my piloting to reflect my new toys every list I play.

Haters are going to Hate no matter what the winners play and the "net deckers" are always going to try and fly the newest winner.

Fly with what you know and don't wait until "the code is broken" or something similar.

My YT is now an obstruction. Are you going to complain that Biggs now gets 5 Defense dice and a focus (or 6 Defense without focus) at range 3?