A player of mine is lamenting psyker rating is very expensive again. Saying that they'd be spending too much xp on PR and not on a weapon skill. Do you agree? Would you think PRx100XP would be too little for the advancement?
He also laments the relative weakness of the base telekinesis power (PRx2 kg) giving a max of 20 kg. Largely because he wants to move people with his mind. Anyone have similar feelings?
A player of mine is lamenting psyker rating is very expensive again. Saying that they'd be spending too much xp on PR and not on a weapon skill. Do you agree? Would you think PRx100XP would be too little for the advancement?
He also laments the relative weakness of the base telekinesis power (PRx2 kg) giving a max of 20 kg. Largely because he wants to move people with his mind. Anyone have similar feelings?
PRx200xp is just fine for psy rating IMO. The benefits granted by a one-point increase in PR are enormous compared to those of a single WS or BS advance, and psychic powers let you do much more than kill people. My psyker player doesn't like spending so much xp on psy rating increases, but when you can force a guard patrol to toss their weapons off a bridge before combat even starts I believe the cost is worth it.
I houseruled a set of utility powers (one per discipline) while I was playing the beta. I hope they added some more powers in the DH2 core book, but if not I'll keep using them in my game. I'll start a thread with more details on the powers when I have the time and inclination, but the Telekinesis power was a super-strength version of Telekinetic Control. It let you lift 50kg per PR or make skill checks like Security at range, but it could only be used to manipulate inanimate objects for balance and enjoyment reasons. It sounds fun at first, but there's no better way to spoil a climactic boss battle than by lifting the heretic into the air and using him for target practice.
I've used 100x Desired Pay Rating in the past, but I've always limited it in one way or another. You can see my efforts in my beta modifications.
I'd reccomend 150 x Current Pay Rating in this case, but I do agree that Psychic powers can be very expensive when you have to juggle the cost for a toolbox of powers and the increasing cost of a psy rating. Especially when you can only purchase very specific applications of a power and being any sort of useful in that discipline quickly become expensive. I've heard this complaint from all of my players who have played psykers.
However, the psychic powers appear to be stronger, so perhaps that's meant to balance it. I haven't played enough with this edition to come to a conclusion.
Edited by KainusMaybe 100xpsy up to 4, 150xpsy up to 7, 200xpsy up to 10. To simulate the increasing difficulty of gaining warp fueled power.
I've been playing with this version of the rules since the second beta was released, and keeping psy rating advances at their current cost works just fine. My players have ~3.5k xp at this point, and the group telepath has Psy Rating 4 and four different psychic powers. If he reduces his power rating to minimum when casting a power, he has a 95% chance to succeed. The assassin spent all his XP on close combat and stealth skills, and he has nowhere near a 95% chance to hit someone with a chainsword. The psyker often Dominates a strong enemy and forces them to attack their friends in combat, so he indirectly makes it MUCH easier for the other players. Psychic powers are by no means broken (in fact, they are more balanced than ever before), but they do offer unique abilities than weapons or skills can never replicate; because of this, I feel it's perfectly fine to keep psy rating increases expensive.
As a side note, psychic powers themselves are quite cheap to learn. Most cost 200 or 300 xp, and even the mightiest abilities are 400 xp.
My 2 cents on the psy power issues:
1.) the psy rating costs are quite good as they are
2.) the psy powers lack investigative powers (especially at Divination), as they actually are a copy of only war (which has no focus on investigation). This really has to be corrected with one of the next supplements by introducing some of the old powers from DH1 in new shape.
I am talking about:
> Far sight
> Personal Augury
> Psychometry
> Psycholocation
> Soul Sight
My 2 cents on the psy power issues:
1.) the psy rating costs are quite good as they are
2.) the psy powers lack investigative powers (especially at Divination), as they actually are a copy of only war (which has no focus on investigation). This really has to be corrected with one of the next supplements by introducing some of the old powers from DH1 in new shape.
I am talking about:
> Far sight
> Personal Augury
> Psychometry
> Psycholocation
> Soul Sight
The way I understand it, as you say, it's pretty much a copy-paste from Only War, and the Only War rules were mostly identical to the rules in Black Crusade.
That being said, Black Crusade also suffered a bit in the Divination department, so I suppose it wouldn't help that much, in this case. At least Pyromancy in Only War wasn't completely useless due to wordings and rules.
The first iteration of the DH2 beta handled Divination much differently. The entire discipline was 100% useless in combat -- instead, they were all investigation-related powers that let you perform auguries, scry and read the future.
If you look on the Divination tree in the current rulebook, you'll see that the descriptions don't match what the powers actually do. The description shows what the powers would do when used for investigation, but the rules text provides an in-combat boost.
I'll post a section in the house rules forum describing the narrative uses of the powers. This way the discipline will retain some in-combat utility while being a mainly investigative set of abilities.
I have not delved into the finished version of Dark Heresy 2, because I don't have the book yet, but how hard would it be, completely from a rules-standpoint, to convert powers from Black Crusade to Dark Heresy 2?My 2 cents on the psy power issues:
1.) the psy rating costs are quite good as they are
2.) the psy powers lack investigative powers (especially at Divination), as they actually are a copy of only war (which has no focus on investigation). This really has to be corrected with one of the next supplements by introducing some of the old powers from DH1 in new shape.
I am talking about:
> Far sight
> Personal Augury
> Psychometry
> Psycholocation
> Soul Sight
The way I understand it, as you say, it's pretty much a copy-paste from Only War, and the Only War rules were mostly identical to the rules in Black Crusade.
That being said, Black Crusade also suffered a bit in the Divination department, so I suppose it wouldn't help that much, in this case. At least Pyromancy in Only War wasn't completely useless due to wordings and rules.
You are right - the rules are very similar, besides that I have the feeling, that the psy power rolls in BC are sometimes a little more difficualt (perhaps because the power level of PCs is higher there).
The bigger problem is, that some of the very good DH1 powers also dont exist there, but just in DH1, which has very different psy power rules
Thinking about the math involved, I'd say that psy rating * 200 is too expensive; NR * 150 seems much more reasonable middle ground to me. Psy Rating 3 doesn't seem like it should cost as much as Favored by the Warp.
Psychic powers can be very powerful, but xp spent on them isn't xp spent on becoming an amazing ranged warrior, melee warrior, etc. Psy Rating is, in a way, the tax Psykers pay for versatility and having their powers, but going too high makes it less of a balancing mechanic and more of a punishment.