Thoughts on GenCon Reveals (ratings out of 4 stars)

VT-49 Decimator ****

Dial looks good. Ramming introduces new way to play the game. Overall, I'm satisfied and can't wait to get a copy of this.

Outrider ****

Dial is amazing. Generic is well-costed. Interesting new upgrades. Also good.

Armada **

Not too impressed. Sure, Star Destroyers are cool, but I think that this game won't do that well. $100 for a core set basically makes it so that one must decide whether to seriously get into this game or not before even buying a single set. Simply put, if someone buys this game for $100 and doesn't like it, that person is out $100 and might or might not be able to sell the game back on the secondary market for a decent price. Contrast that to card games, where you can get a deck for $10; X-Wing, where you can get a core for $30-$40 and at least try out the mechanics; and many other non-Games Workshop miniatures games where a starter set could be had for less than $25 (e.g. Heroclix, Axis Allies Minis, old Star Wars Minis).

The unpainted nature of some of the figures is also a turn off. Some may say it is very difficult to paint such small pieces but Axis and Allies Miniatures: War at Sea proves otherwise with its prepainted mini WWII flight squads.

Rules look convoluted.

Third Faction for X-Wing and Wave 6 ***

This is intriguing. It opens up more styles of play and adds more variety to the game. The actual execution, especially with regards to the already-released ships being integrated into Scum and Villainy, remains to be seen. Personally, I want them to either make bigger changes to those ships or to print the same ships and sell them at lower price. Not too interested in getting ships substantially similar to ones I already have just so that I could play them for "another faction."

Imperial Assault **

[Revised] So, it appears that despite being announced at roughly the same time as Armada and Wave 6 stuff, this game is nothing like Armada and X-Wing. It appears that this game is self-contained in that you could play the game out of the box. The reported MSRP for this, $100, is still rather high for a game like this (many board games I know, not made by Hasbro or Parker Brothers, are in the $30-$50 range). Not too excited about the unpainted pieces, though some people would obviously disagree if they like painting miniatures. Will need to see how this pans out, but it at least looks interesting. Though, for me, I personally would not play it because I like miniature games better and this apparently is not one.

Overall

Changes within X-Wing are, for the most part, good and add new styles of play and depth to the game. However, the release of other Star Wars games is somewhat concerning due to cannibalization. Concern is that by splitting the Star Wars player base, Fantasy Flight would actually make it so that there might not be enough players to play a particular game. The cost of the games exacerbate this concern. For example, right now, we might have 10 players at a store who play X-Wing. Once Armada and Imperial Assault come out, players will likely choose to focus on one of the three games. They may dabble in the others, but their focus will likely be on just one game. That may create a situation where out of 10 players, you have 4 X-Wing players, 3 Armada players, and 3 Imperial Assault players. Such an arrangement limits the number of possible opponents you could face for a particular game.

I think FFG intended "cross-pollenization," but I don't see it happening. For instance, suppose there is a player who wants to buy stuff from all three games. That player will pay:

Armada Core $100

Armada Expansion(s) $50

X-Wing - 4 Expansions for a fleet $60

Imperial Assault Core $50?

That would be $260 and would be a very bare minimum shopping list.

In this regard, i think X-Wing is better positioned because it already has an established player base who have already bought in to the game.

[Revision] Cannibalization still applies to Imperial Assault due to cost but to a lesser extent as it is a different game from X-Wing and Armada. A theoretical person with $200 to spend on miniatures would still need to apportion that between X-Wing, Armada, and Imperial Assault and a dollar spent on one game is one less dollar spent on another game.

Nice work. As far as spitting the player base I don't think that will be a major issue. Miniature players will remain strong. Board gamers now have something to go after. Experienced miniature players will not have to much of an issue doing x-wing and armada. The hard core gamer will go after anything new from a company they like. I feel for the stores that now have to decide what games they will set leagues for.

Imperial Assault isn't meant to be something like X-wing, it's a reskin of FFG's D&D-lite-ish RPG boardgame Descent, which seems to be generally really well received. The miniatures in it don't come painted either. X-wing is a bit of an exception in that department. I'd honestly rather have unpainted minis to do myself than ones with half-assed paint jobs, which is always a risk with prepainted minis in the quanities they'd have to produce for something like IA. That said, I don't think I really have the time to invest in something like Star Wars Descent, but that AT-ST mini...man...

My FLGS in Toronto has Armada listed as a pre-order for $74.95 Canadian right now. Stop being so hung up over the $99USD MSRP. Remember that the small ships for X-Wing have an MSRP of $14.99USD on the FFG site, and seem to go for $9.99 or a bit more at the major online shops in the US that I've looked at.

Imperial Assault isn't meant to be something like X-wing, it's a reskin of FFG's D&D-lite-ish RPG boardgame Descent, which seems to be generally really well received. The miniatures in it don't come painted either. X-wing is a bit of an exception in that department. I'd honestly rather have unpainted minis to do myself than ones with half-assed paint jobs, which is always a risk with prepainted minis in the quanities they'd have to produce for something like IA. That said, I don't think I really have the time to invest in something like Star Wars Descent, but that AT-ST mini...man...

I see. I think the problem is that they announced it along with the X-Wing stuff, indicating perhaps some similarity. I mean, at least Armada and X-Wing have some similarities - upgrade cards, ships, etc. Armada/X-Wing and Imperial Assault have hardly any similarities.

To be fair, though, I think that Imperial Assault (if it is a board game) might have the advantage of being self-contained. I see that it comes with the Luke and Darth expansions, so it appears that you can play straight out of the box if you want, unlike X-Wing where 2 TIES or 1 X-Wing is just not a competitive list. It makes the expansions optional.

My FLGS in Toronto has Armada listed as a pre-order for $74.95 Canadian right now. Stop being so hung up over the $99USD MSRP. Remember that the small ships for X-Wing have an MSRP of $14.99USD on the FFG site, and seem to go for $9.99 or a bit more at the major online shops in the US that I've looked at.

$74.95 CAD is still quite a bit compared to non-GW miniatures. But really, the problem isn't even so much the cost of Armada alone as it is the cost of trying to simultaneously buy both Armada stuff and X-Wing stuff. My point is that people will probably have to choose between one or the other, which would result in cannibalization.

Descent is an absolute blast to play. If Imperial Assault is an evolution of those rules, it ought to be very welcome at any boardgamer's table.

In PC terms: Edge of the Empire is Skyrim, and Imperial Assault is Diablo. They fill very different urges in a gamer's soul. I honestly don't think either game will compete with each other, or with X-Wing. After all, if Descent isn't keeping anyone from playing one of those games, Imperial Assault ought not.

Armada might. It scratches at a similar urge, but maybe a different enough one to allow them both to be viable. Big ship combat just feels different, you know? But does it feel different enough to make me want to justify both games to my wife? Maybe not.

To use another PC analogy: if X-Wing is League of Legends, I'm more likely to pick up Armada if it is StarCraft than if it is DOTA.

Board game releases don't split communities... There is no such thing as a x board game player which excludes him from being Y board game player. the collective nature miniature games as well as the expense definitly has that impact. my friends for example used to all play Warhammer, then wazone came out and with 100% none of them will ever touch Warhammer again. So the introduction of Armada may turn x wing players to Armada players.

I want them all, but I'll probably stick to just x-wing. I'd be more into Imperial Assault if it could be played solo, like their Gear of War game, for those times I can't get together with friends for a game.

I have to agree about the canibalism aspect, but maybe the customer base is diverse enough to allow all these star wars games to thrive.

Board game releases don't split communities... There is no such thing as a x board game player which excludes him from being Y board game player. the collective nature miniature games as well as the expense definitly has that impact. my friends for example used to all play Warhammer, then wazone came out and with 100% none of them will ever touch Warhammer again. So the introduction of Armada may turn x wing players to Armada players.

And, if X players prefer to play Armada, then that's X people who are happier than they were before. I don't see the problem.

Your complaint seems to imply a zero-sum gamer tradeoff. Where I am, I'm seeing ever more newer people getting into X-Wing, and FFG's sales numbers (presented today) seem to support that notion.

If more star wars games means that X-wing will be cannibalized, then X-wing would have been in a dire situation long ago. Edge of the Empire and the Star Wars LCG never really got in X-wing's way. Imperial Assault, which is more a board game rather than a tabletop game, shouldn't do much either.

The only one that might cross swords with X-wing is Armada, what with both of them being space based games, but given X-wing's low cost I really don't see established X-wing players who also start Armada leaving X-wing entirely unless Armada was where their hearts were in the first place.

Epic might suffer though. But that'd be more due to Epic's current incomplete nature and it being excluded from standard games (even without Armada to compete, I see frighteningly few players playing Epic now).

Board game releases don't split communities... There is no such thing as a x board game player which excludes him from being Y board game player. the collective nature miniature games as well as the expense definitly has that impact. my friends for example used to all play Warhammer, then wazone came out and with 100% none of them will ever touch Warhammer again. So the introduction of Armada may turn x wing players to Armada players.

And, if X players prefer to play Armada, then that's X people who are happier than they were before. I don't see the problem.

Your complaint seems to imply a zero-sum gamer tradeoff. Where I am, I'm seeing ever more newer people getting into X-Wing, and FFG's sales numbers (presented today) seem to support that notion.

I don't have a complaint, where did you read "complaint" in that? Im simply pointing out that all things created equal the average miniatures gamer is buying into one game at a time for very obvious reasons, that its very expensive to keep up with miniatures. While on the other hand board games are much easier to buy into because you make one purchase and your done... so its easy. If Armada ends up being like X-Wing where they constantly release expansions the average player will end up choosing one game or the other, its just the reality of a typical gamers economics. I mean I would love to be able to keep up with and play lots of different miniatures games and board games but I don't, ... I end up choosing because I only have so much money to spend.

Initial impressions of the new stuff:

Armada - thumbs down

I'm invested in X-Wing in a big way, and invested in Epic as well. I'm much more interested in continuing and expanding my enjoyment of the existing game than I am starting an entirely new one which uses the same ships and factions on a smaller scale. The first wave of Armada models doesn't really appeal either. I'm not going to write it off without playing it, but I'm not convinced so far.

Wave 6 - thumbs up

Great stuff, FFG. Truly great stuff. Answering multiple fan questions in one go. Reinvigorating some of the existing models, breathing new life into the X-Wing game and giving a huge amount of scope for future development. Colour me impressed.

Imperial Assault - thumbs up

I've never played Descent, but I'm hearing good things. A Star Wars miniatures based adventure board game? Sounds good to me, and looks good as well. Scratches an entirely different itch to X-Wing, in the Space Hulk/Heroquest/Talisman fashion. I shall watch it's development with great interest.

My FLGS in Toronto has Armada listed as a pre-order for $74.95 Canadian right now. Stop being so hung up over the $99USD MSRP. Remember that the small ships for X-Wing have an MSRP of $14.99USD on the FFG site, and seem to go for $9.99 or a bit more at the major online shops in the US that I've looked at.

even the $100 msrp isn't that bad at all, especially compared to the Games workshop stuff

Indeed in the UK a single plastic witch elf is about £3.50 GBP.

That makes a barely playable unit over £30

It's why i only play with pre 1990 lead warhammer minis these days. Cheaper, nicer sculpts (jes goodwin skaven are classic), more character, no scale creep and they retain a constant value. Easier to strip paint off too.

My old school gaming blog. Most the minis in this game are 80s... spot the Star Wars models kit bash...

http://talesfromthemaelstrom.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/zoats-vs-imperial-army-deathworld.html

I disagree with the OP regarding Wave 6 models re-usage. I think it is an excellent way to give us players more value for our purchases and its the fastest way to build up the 3rd faction. The ships announced so far HWK and Slave are ships which make sense for the "conversion". I would be pissed if they were reusing X and Ties.

My opinion would have been if they would have released all new models/repaints the 3rd faction might not have done too well due to cost. I am guessing though the real reason has to do with production ability... they couldn't produce everything except the extra cardboard at the same time.

If there is any cannibalization it would seem to really only apply to Armada and X-wing since they are both miniature battle games.

My overall opinion of Wave 6 is meh, its cool and I hope they do something really unique with SAV but I don't think X-wing needed "a change" that badly. Heck if anything change has been a constant the last year, let the current offerings settle.

I am selfish but Imperial Huge would fill a current gap at least... Plenty of time for Wave 6 after, maybe by then the game would have started to get stale.

My own thoughts,

Decimator:

I love it. I'll certainly get one. Maybe two. Lots of crew space leads to lots of crazy potential combo's.

YT-2400:

I never really cared that much for the Outrider even when I played Shadows of the Empire to pieces. Add to that I'm an Imperial player, and I feel little for this model. But it's good to see it for the fans of the ship.

Wave 6:

Meh. Again, I'm an Imperial player, and with the new wave being entirely made up of a new faction, there's nothing for me to find there. But I know there were plenty of people clamouring for a third criminal faction, so congratulations and have fun to you I'd say.

Armada:

Holy crap. This is my dream game. I've always been more a fan of the capital ship fights than I have been of the dogfights, so when this game was announced it was like a dream come true. And the more I learn about its rules and mechanics, the more excited I get.

Imperial Assault:

I'm on the fence. I never really played Descent, which everybody is saying this game is based on, but it looks interesting enough. Without a true collectible component and with campaigns, it looks like something I could pick up and bring to the gaming club for a night of fun. Still, it's a low priority on my list right now.

Revised opinions of Imperial Assault after reading your comments and understanding more about it.

My 2 cents from watching at home.

My biggest issue with Armada is scale. It just looks like pieces being moved around on the board, not real ships to scale with each other. It does not look immersive at all.

I don't mind the Fighter squadrons being relatively larger since they are obviously representative. But the capital ships being at the wrong sizes is just glaring. Maybe they are making the scale slide so much so they can expand to a 2 foot Executor some day.

Descent first edition is an absolute blast to play.

Fixed that for you =)

I'd love to get some of those Imperial Assualt minis for Edge of the Empire and Age of Rebelion, but I bet the expansion pack will be expensive if the core game lists at $100.

Star Wars Descent, COUNT ME IN! Oh and believe me Imperial Assault will have multiple expansions... I'd be surprised if nobody has asked for an AT-AT already :-P it will be collectible because collectible = bleeding our wallets dry. Not that I'm complaining, FFG making all these things we want to spend our money on, just that I wish I had more money to throw at them!

Personally I think wave 6 is an absolute masterstroke, I'm as happy as a clam.

Armada won't pull my interest, but purely because of the expense. Also I think less clamour for capital ships in X-wing is a very healthy thing. They have given people who want capital ships a place to go to without ruining the X-wing game. So whilst Armada won't be opening my wallet it is still a masterstroke and is good for X-wing at the same time in its own little way.

And the Star Wars RPG's, well guess what I think of them? A masterstroke.

Keeeeeeeeeeeershing (that's the sound of the ball being hit out of the park!)

Star Wars Descent, COUNT ME IN! Oh and believe me Imperial Assault will have multiple expansions... I'd be surprised if nobody has asked for an AT-AT already :-P it will be collectible because collectible = bleeding our wallets dry.

If you mean collectible as in multiple expansions, yes. If you mean collectible as in random figures in expansions, then you're flat out wrong. FFG does not do random packed expansions. They have been very upfront about their dislike of that business model and there is nothing to indicate they've changed their thinking on that.

Jim

Imperial Assault isn't meant to be something like X-wing, it's a reskin of FFG's D&D-lite-ish RPG boardgame Descent, which seems to be generally really well received. The miniatures in it don't come painted either. X-wing is a bit of an exception in that department. I'd honestly rather have unpainted minis to do myself than ones with half-assed paint jobs, which is always a risk with prepainted minis in the quanities they'd have to produce for something like IA. That said, I don't think I really have the time to invest in something like Star Wars Descent, but that AT-ST mini...man...

I see. I think the problem is that they announced it along with the X-Wing stuff, indicating perhaps some similarity. I mean, at least Armada and X-Wing have some similarities - upgrade cards, ships, etc. Armada/X-Wing and Imperial Assault have hardly any similarities.

To be fair, though, I think that Imperial Assault (if it is a board game) might have the advantage of being self-contained. I see that it comes with the Luke and Darth expansions, so it appears that you can play straight out of the box if you want, unlike X-Wing where 2 TIES or 1 X-Wing is just not a competitive list. It makes the expansions optional.

They didn't just announce it alongside X-wing though, both were just want part of the entire presentation. There were also Netrunner, LotR LCG, their new Warhammer 40k LCG, Battlelore(their fantasy version of the Memoir '44 system), the Star Wars RPG system, their Cthulu boardgames, and their new X-com Boardgame. All of the new stuff(40k LCG, Armada, Imperial Assault) were announced as part of a separate block after expansions for current products. There was nothing ambiguous about where IA was announced.