It'd be weird to have the Outrider but no Virago, y'know? We'll get a StarViper for sure.

*rigorously pulling the thread to get it back in line*

I could see it have Xixor as the main pilot, Guri as another (would be in line with the Han/Chewie Dash/Leebo tendency) and then a Black Sun Vigo generic ... I wonder who the fourth generic pilot would be?

I would also venture that this would be a HWK-90 sized ship as well large but not a large base.

Firstly as I have said before forums are a poor source of user info on player habits, it would take millions of well trained staff months to read in all the data from forum that's why surveys have predefined questions in them with answers that fit into catergories.

Neah, it wouldn't (btw, I've kinda lost interest on the main topic here, we'll get the Virago if only because it speaks to a large portion of the target audience who played the game, read the comic, bought the book, it's just too big of a part of the EU to ignore. Shadows and Heir are so well loved, they might as well be canon). This forum isn't that active, you could easily keep up with it in an hour or two a day by following certain users.

If it were me, I'd always read everything by people like Sable and MajorJuggler (and others) because of what they post and how highly they are regarded by the community. I'd keep tabs on everything in the rules forum to see what needs adressing and monitor the batreps together with the threads on Regionals and Nationals lightly to see how the meta is evolving. The community is doing half the work.

This would not be a deciding factor in the design and production process, but it would be a factor, and I think it is.

Why is that a problem? That's an issues for the designers, not me. It also presupposes that it's difficult to track the various combinations, where in fact it doesn't seem that difficult with a computer, a database of squad configurations and game outcomes, and full time play testers -- all of which FFG has. I'd be surprised if they don't have software simulations as well, as an xwing AI would be fairly easy to make and would quickly expose most (but not all) bad ideas.

Look at an LCG like game of thrones. I have 4 binders stuffed full of cards -- there's gotta be at least 2000 - 3000 cards in that game. They manage just fine without introducing more factions.

Besides, iIf they need to "open up the design space", all they need to do is add a new icon or ship-specific title card.

It's a two player game! I don't understand the point of a third faction at all. If it's just to expand the game, then why not just have those expansions directly in the hands of the existing two factions? Three factions doesn't give more options, it just restricts them. In a two player game, entire sets of ships and upgrades are guaranteed to be excluded from consideration. Why would anybody want that? Count me in as an opponent to this idea...

Actually, it could do the opposite and actually open up design space. Every ship that comes out for Rebels and Imps has to take into consideration all existing ship abilities within those two factions. For example every new Imperial ship and ability has to take Howlrunner into account. A new faction would be starting from scratch and the only constraints they would have would be existing upgrade cards. Further if they offer a different playstyle than Rebels or Imperials, they can offer an entirely new gamesplay experience and challenege to overcome.

It'd be weird to have the Outrider but no Virago, y'know? We'll get a StarViper for sure.

*rigorously pulling the thread to get it back in line*

I could see it have Xixor as the main pilot, Guri as another (would be in line with the Han/Chewie Dash/Leebo tendency) and then a Black Sun Vigo generic ... I wonder who the fourth generic pilot would be?

I would also venture that this would be a HWK-90 sized ship as well large but not a large base.

Acording to wookieepedia (so take it with a gain of salt... What ever that means), it's a 21 meter ship, the same as the shuttle, so My guess is a large ship. It was uses by black sun and zann so it's generic pilots could come from both of those groups. A couple things sound intersting, first Xizor's version used some kind of advanced targeting system and was superior to later models, which were more generic, this coild be a title card or something like the named YT-1300 vr ORS pilots' stats. Another bit is that Zann used them to deploy buzz driods, to incapacitate other ships, they could bypass shields, this could be really interesting as an upgrade, maybe as a torpedo slot or something. And it's supose to be able the interceptor for speed and maneuveribility, which would be crazy if it's a large base ship. Other than that it's probably 3 attack with a cannon, 1-2 torpedo slots, and maybe a systems upgrade.

The only way I see a third "faction" working was if it were neutral/mercenary and not playable on its own. However, either Rebel or Imperials could take these neutral ships in addition to their rebel/imperial- specific ships if they wanted to.

When I hear people complaining that there is no third faction, it kind of makes me feel a little sad for them.

To me, it indicates they lost something very important that they probably had as children: imagination.

Remember when you were a kid and you could pretend your couch was the Rebel Base, parking your X-wing or MIllennium Falcon (if your parents gave in to your whining and got it for you for Christmas and that was your only gift that year) on the cushions and pulling your figures out to battle the forces of evil who were apparently using the ceiling fan as their new Imperial battle station? Or do you recall even going outside (gasp!) and running around with your ship toys pretending the house was a giant battlecruiser and it was up to you to take it out?

I remember that.

And because I do, I'm able to think of other ways that I can include pirates in the Imperial or Rebel fleets. Heck, I can even pretend the Imperial logos on their cards indicate that they are in fact Imperial undercover agents sent to wipe out the fledgling Rebel Alliance using a sneak attack. I also use that same imagination to imagine that when a Rebel vs. Rebel match takes place, it's a splinter group who was secretly working for the Empire and it's up to Luke and his buddies to shoot down those rotten traitors.

So I have to question the need for a third faction when I can just pretend. I love pretending. Still do. That's why I play D&D and EotE every Friday and Saturday when I can. So I say, I don't need a third faction to enjoy the game. If I want to play the Empire with just the TIEs and the ships I saw in the game TIE Fighter in order to have uniformity, then I will. If I want to pretend that Fett has officially joined the Empire, well, why not? If I want to make believe that those Imperial ships which were Black Sun before are now Imperial models, then heck, the more the merrier!

The bottom line is, a third faction is completely unnecessary if you don't lack imagination and a will to just have fun with the game.

*rigorously pulling the thread to get it back in line*

Are you familiar with the idea of an ant pushing a tricycle?

So I have to question the need for a third faction when I can just pretend. I love pretending. Still do. That's why I play D&D and EotE every Friday and Saturday when I can. So I say, I don't need a third faction to enjoy the game. If I want to play the Empire with just the TIEs and the ships I saw in the game TIE Fighter in order to have uniformity, then I will. If I want to pretend that Fett has officially joined the Empire, well, why not? If I want to make believe that those Imperial ships which were Black Sun before are now Imperial models, then heck, the more the merrier! The bottom line is, a third faction is completely unnecessary if you don't lack imagination and a will to just have fun with the game.

This is the only reason I'm considering getting a mini swarm of headhunters, Kath needs her minions.

Also, I am so jealous of you for getting to play EotE every week. I haven't been able to play it in almost a year.

There's no way we 'll see a third faction. They'll be Imperial-aligned much like Boba Fett and the Bounty Hunters are. Imperial alignment then allows them to team with the rest of the Firespray-riding Scum and Villainy.

There's too much in Star Wars Galaxies to be left untouched.

I can see an X4 or Nova Courier being made (going by wookieepedia here, never played the game).

So those of you who don't think there will be a third faction, do you think there will be ships like the Hutt fighters or Vaksai or Starvipers? And which side will get them? Seems only Imps stand to gain.

StarViper as Imperial. Scyk probably Rebel.

So those of you who don't think there will be a third faction, do you think there will be ships like the Hutt fighters or Vaksai or Starvipers? And which side will get them? Seems only Imps stand to gain.

After Wave 5 is released, the Rebellion will have two "independent" ships while the Empire will have just the one. While I'm not a EU expert, it seems as If they release those ships, it seems like it will be more about the pilots they choose to put with them that determines which side.

It should be noted, too, that the current existence of those three ships (one imminent) within the Rebellion and Empire might be clear evidence against any near term planning for a third faction, especially as it would call into question where those ships should really be.

When I hear people complaining that there is no third faction, it kind of makes me feel a little sad for them.

To me, it indicates they lost something very important that they probably had as children: imagination.

Remember when you were a kid and you could pretend your couch was the Rebel Base, parking your X-wing or MIllennium Falcon (if your parents gave in to your whining and got it for you for Christmas and that was your only gift that year) on the cushions and pulling your figures out to battle the forces of evil who were apparently using the ceiling fan as their new Imperial battle station? Or do you recall even going outside (gasp!) and running around with your ship toys pretending the house was a giant battlecruiser and it was up to you to take it out?

I remember that.

And because I do, I'm able to think of other ways that I can include pirates in the Imperial or Rebel fleets. Heck, I can even pretend the Imperial logos on their cards indicate that they are in fact Imperial undercover agents sent to wipe out the fledgling Rebel Alliance using a sneak attack. I also use that same imagination to imagine that when a Rebel vs. Rebel match takes place, it's a splinter group who was secretly working for the Empire and it's up to Luke and his buddies to shoot down those rotten traitors.

So I have to question the need for a third faction when I can just pretend. I love pretending. Still do. That's why I play D&D and EotE every Friday and Saturday when I can. So I say, I don't need a third faction to enjoy the game. If I want to play the Empire with just the TIEs and the ships I saw in the game TIE Fighter in order to have uniformity, then I will. If I want to pretend that Fett has officially joined the Empire, well, why not? If I want to make believe that those Imperial ships which were Black Sun before are now Imperial models, then heck, the more the merrier!

The bottom line is, a third faction is completely unnecessary if you don't lack imagination and a will to just have fun with the game.

Agree so much. As a matter of fact, I look down upon all those who even buy the miniatures for this game. I choose to play it using various colors of smarties. I allow my imagination to do the rest and anyone who can't do so is too newfangled matter. I remember rolling a hoop down a hill and imagining that I was a driving a Model T. *sarcasm end*

In all sincerity though, different people enjoy different aspects of the game for different reasons. Some really like the look of the models and that helps them get into the game. Wanting actual models for a third faction doesn't mean that they are less imaginative, it just means that they like the model aspect of the game and not just the flying.

In all sincerity though, different people enjoy different aspects of the game for different reasons. Some really like the look of the models and that helps them get into the game. Wanting actual models for a third faction doesn't mean that they are less imaginative, it just means that they like the model aspect of the game and not just the flying.

That's not exactly what he's saying. It's not that he's saying there shouldn't be ships that could ostensibly be part of a third faction, like the Outrider or Slave I, it's that it doesn't matter they've been assigned to Rebels and Empire by the Maker. He'll just ignore them and make his own faction if he wants to.

In all sincerity though, different people enjoy different aspects of the game for different reasons. Some really like the look of the models and that helps them get into the game. Wanting actual models for a third faction doesn't mean that they are less imaginative, it just means that they like the model aspect of the game and not just the flying.

That's not exactly what he's saying. It's not that he's saying there shouldn't be ships that could ostensibly be part of a third faction, like the Outrider or Slave I, it's that it doesn't matter they've been assigned to Rebels and Empire by the Maker. He'll just ignore them and make his own faction if he wants to.

Hmmm...I guess that is possible, but on reread I still got the feeling that he was just saying he would cram things into the Imp vs. Reb framework that already exists or that he could find viable reasons for mirror matches. Granted, you are right that with imagination you could use those ships as a third faction without support from FFG; however, gamers of any number of games can tell you the difficult of that and how much better it is to have support of the main company. For instance, I can imagine all I want, but if I don't find opponents willing to play my Outrider/Slave 1 list, I am not going to be able to play it as a merc squadron.

As I said before, who cares. I don't really. I just like to play Devil's advocate.

What it comes down to for me is this and ONLY this.. more. I want more. More ships, more upgrades, more pilots, more everything. If that means that we eventually need a new faction, then I am totally fine with that. I don't understand why so many are against it, but there's no reason to fight about it either.

I do like the idea that some have suggested about making a Neutral faction. Not a third faction on their own so to speak, but a group of ships that can be used on either side, or both sides for that matter.

A perfect example would be the shuttle, or the Corvette, using existing ships. There are plenty of neutral factions in the SW universe that can swing either way. Why can't this be the compromise? This way, no one is being 'restricted'.

Listen, in all honesty, what's to stop you if you want to take a friendly game and generate Kath and her Z95 escort and run them against some rebels, maybe a late late rebellion era deal where the rebs had a few mixed squads of squints and Rogue squad X wings. Or maybe against a planetary defense force of Y wings and Z95s..

As long as you arent bringing it to a tourney no one cares what you do in your games with your friends..

So those of you who don't think there will be a third faction, do you think there will be ships like the Hutt fighters or Vaksai or Starvipers? And which side will get them? Seems only Imps stand to gain.

After Wave 5 is released, the Rebellion will have two "independent" ships while the Empire will have just the one. While I'm not a EU expert, it seems as If they release those ships, it seems like it will be more about the pilots they choose to put with them that determines which side.

It should be noted, too, that the current existence of those three ships (one imminent) within the Rebellion and Empire might be clear evidence against any near term planning for a third faction, especially as it would call into question where those ships should really be.

It's basically on par with FFG's Star Wars LCG. It's less "Rebellion vs Imperials" and more "Light Side vs Dark Side." The brave Rebel Alliance and the Smugglers who aid them vs the might of the Empire and the Bounty Hunters they employ.

For a moment I thought this topic said "Being Trolled By Gerard Butler".

So those of you who don't think there will be a third faction, do you think there will be ships like the Hutt fighters or Vaksai or Starvipers? And which side will get them? Seems only Imps stand to gain.

After Wave 5 is released, the Rebellion will have two "independent" ships while the Empire will have just the one. While I'm not a EU expert, it seems as If they release those ships, it seems like it will be more about the pilots they choose to put with them that determines which side.

It should be noted, too, that the current existence of those three ships (one imminent) within the Rebellion and Empire might be clear evidence against any near term planning for a third faction, especially as it would call into question where those ships should really be.

The Rebels have three "Independent" ships: the YT-1300, the YT-2400 and the HWK-290.

It's basically on par with FFG's Star Wars LCG. It's less "Rebellion vs Imperials" and more "Light Side vs Dark Side." The brave Rebel Alliance and the Smugglers who aid them vs the might of the Empire and the Bounty Hunters they employ.

Oops, yeah, I forgot about the HWK, and that is a better characterization. Either way, though, it still makes it pretty clear the theme is for two clearly defined sides.

Maybe it will be our first "wide" based ship. Didn't it fly "tall" rather than flat? That would be cool.

Yeah it flew vertical

Oh, here's something to feed speculation: the ship on Intimidation.

Of course, ships being used on images aren't a hint, it is just art being reused from the LCG, but somehow people always jump to conclusions when they see a new ship.

Oh, here's something to feed speculation: the ship on Intimidation.

Of course, ships being used on images aren't a hint, it is just art being reused from the LCG, but somehow people always jump to conclusions when they see a new ship.

GOOD CATCH,

that's so true... what is that ship doing on that card??

• Smugglers' Alliance
• Naboo Royal Space Fighter Corps
• Corellian Security Force
• Hutt Kajidics
• Hutt Cartel

Take it as you will, it's self explanatory to me.

Oh sweet Jesus, here we go.