Could a Defender with HLC beat a Super Falcon?
Depends. The Defender will try to hang back at Range 3, and if it's Rexler then it only needs to get through the five shields before it starts critting. Once it stands critting, who knows what's going to happen to that poor Falcon?
Last time I took Brath against a falcon he used his ability to cause three crits I reduced firepower by one, reduced his agility to zero and third I can't remember, the mini swarm with him then tore the falcon appart that same turn.
The Defender is not broken at all. Vessery or Brath with an HLC is 42 and 45 points respectively, add Outmaneuver or Predator and you are at 45 and 48 respectively. Add an Engine upgrade (jury is out on how useful this is) and you are at 49 and 52.
If you are not into the mini swarm idea, you are then looking at a 3 ship Imperial list.
Defenders can wreak havoc on low agility ships if they have the time to do so, but as I found out this weekend, 2 naked B-Wings with Wedge and a Knave will give it fits as it simply can't kill them quick enough, even with Vader and a Tie with Targeting Computer in support.
Sad though it seems. 4 Ties in support of the HLC named Defender seems to be the solid build.
The Defender is a useful tool, but nowhere near broken.
Right now I am running Vessery with HLC and Hull Upgrade, Bounty Hunter with HLC and hull upgrade and an academy tie and I have been having pretty good success with it. It can take down a Falcon and B wings very quickly.
I am fortunate that I came into the game at wave 4. I say this because without having a bias towards ships or a long time of playing the game and trying to only work directly with the meta in my environment I just went out and bought 2 defenders along with my haul of other imperial ships. As I learn the game, I am playing with them just like my other ships and I have found that after a weekend of gaming they are really great.
I read a lot about Defender hate, and perhaps I am naive or just not seasoned enough in this game but I find flying them non problematic and quite great.
They are pointed correctly, they are mean, and they should have a place on everyone's gaming shelf.
I only play causal games with friends, but I tried the following list last week:
Echo VI, ACD,FCS, Intelligence Agent
Vessery HLC, Outmaneuver
Scimitar
My friend took:
Tarn Mason
Bandit Saquadron
Han Solo PTL, Cluster missles, C3PO, Chebacca, MF, Engine upgrade
Since my friend doesn't know the game as well as I do, I told him my list ahead of time so that he could build a counter list. He was mainly concerned about the phantom, so he put Han in there to counter it and built the list around the idea of maximizing the Falcon's damage outpout and staying power. In the end, I still had all three ships left, although the defender and bomber were down to one hull each. The pahantom was untouched since I managed to stay at range 3 of the falcon and take evade for my action most rounds. The phantom and bomber were both able to feed target locks to Vessery and with the HLC, he was able to do consistent damage and the defence dice were rolling well. The game definitely could have gone the other way if they had rolled differently. Overall though, I was really happy with how well the defender and phantom worked together and even the bomber was able to dish out some hits and stay alive with its 6 hull. It was an interesting match because the defender was paper, the falcon was rock and the phantom was scissors. His other 2 ships didn't end up doing much, taking shots at the phantom when they could but with 4 dice and an evade token he couldn't hit it.
After flying with it some I feel the "defender can't turn" business is a bit overblown. Sure, 1 and 2 turns are red, but it does have 1 white banks, and it still has a 3 white turn and barrel roll. If a Defender gets behind you you've got problems. It can go slow enough that you have to hope to out guess the other guy because he can follow you, at a distance pelting you with the HLC. If you K-turn to face it, well now you're facing a 3-3-3-3 with (possibly) a HLC that's just going to K-turn behind you next turn and start over. And if you manage to get stress on it? It can just 5 green away, then K-turn back into the fight.
As for getting focused, split deploy and slow play the first turns, see which thing your opponent goes after. If it's the defender, kick on the speed, make use of those stats, and have your other element come in behind.
I think I'm going to give this a shot, or something like it:
Rexlar
- HLC
- Predator
Mauler Mithil
- Outmaneuver
Backstabber
Black Squadron
- Predator
After flying with it some I feel the "defender can't turn" business is a bit overblown. Sure, 1 and 2 turns are red, but it does have 1 white banks, and it still has a 3 white turn and barrel roll. If a Defender gets behind you you've got problems. It can go slow enough that you have to hope to out guess the other guy because he can follow you, at a distance pelting you with the HLC. If you K-turn to face it, well now you're facing a 3-3-3-3 with (possibly) a HLC that's just going to K-turn behind you next turn and start over. And if you manage to get stress on it? It can just 5 green away, then K-turn back into the fight.
Quiet, you. I don't want people catching on to the fact that, if flown like a Defender, it's very useful. If someone tries to fly it like an Interceptor, it doesn't work at all.
I do not find the Red turns an issue at all. I do use an Engine Upgrade, but even without that it's not really an issue. You just fly differently. This is where the HLC pays for it's points as the Defender is not a close in dogfighter, it is the ME-262 of Star Wars.
Just bought a 2nd defender and will try the list out. Thanks for the great discussion!
I like flying 3 defenders with ion cannons (the pilot skill 1 ones).
With low pilot skill you can even do blocking and its very hard to deny their actions.
3 Ion cannons is usually enough to ion any nasty ships so you can avoid them, and you can always use the regular guns to kill small stuff.