First off I am not saying they are broken. I am asking because the other day I was playing game of xwing trying a build for first time rexler brath with swarm tactics and hlc delta squadron with hlc and mauler mithel he was doing Biggs walks the dog. Chewy Biggs and kracken. I was able to kill Biggs after he killed my mithel but after that I was taking down chewy fast maybe 3 hull left he called it the store was closing and I was declared the winner. He begins to tell me all he has been facing is defenders with hlc lately and he has tried 15 different rebel builds against them and can't win against them . Also that they are broken because of white K turn and cannon upgrade hlc or that rebel doesn't have answer for them especially def with hlc. To the point that he wants to quit game. I know it could be just his tactics and how he plays but is anyone else experiencing problems with defenders and hlc. What rebel builds have been used that defeat them?

Oh this is so ironic when just a few weeks ago people were saying defenders sucked hard and your better off with anything else

The answer to defenders is focus fire and hope the green dice betray them like they did me my last game, they are tough little ships and the latest FAQ made rexler a real anti chewi unit.

Or you know... get around at 90-degrees to them so they have to like.. turn or something. Defenders *love* turning.

Read this: http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/105107-2014-regionals-results/

Scroll down to the third post and then click to reveal the Wave 4 info.

That will tell you how very unpopular and unsuccessful the Defender has been so far in top tier tournament play.

Two general comments: some builds struggle against the Defender, few Rebel ship list with the Falcon is one as four red dice (from the HLC) vs the Falcon's one green (even with 3PO) can be very nasty.

However, any squad that can focus fire on the Defender will bring it down.

Thanks for the responses and yeah I have read forums about defender dials suck because of turns. So his response baffled me a bit. And yeah I know 1 defense dice is easy pray for hlc. I play both sides have multiple builds that I like using for each but when a build permits I use hlcs. They seem to wreck ships and sometimes people I have played against get frustrated with them. On a platform like defender it gets amplified because of the k turns if done right also frustrate players.

It sounds like you outfly your opponent and/or he is unwilling to adapt new strategies to combat your strategies.

Rexler Brath with a Heavy Laser Cannon shreds low agility.

The majority opinion the last month is that the defender is too expensive. I think it is incredible and if it cost much less then the rebels would be a real tight spot. I think they priced it out of 3 defender with HLC range for a reason.

I've had very few issues facing defenders. They seem to go down really fast under heavy fire.

Firesprays are so much harder to deal with.

I like defenders, they are fun to shoot down as your opponent wonders how a 6 hit point fighter gets destroyed.

Lol I even ionized one off the table with double stress, when he finally shook off the ion tokens he couldn't stay on the table because his turn maneuvers were red and he was still double stressed.

As I said before Defenders are not that tough. They are only 1 more hit than a X-wing. Yeah I know 3 agility is supposed to make shields and hull last longer but C-3PO and Falcon title do a much better job.

Anecdotal, but I fielded Colonel Vesserey in my last game. He took one Assault Missile, then a Proton Torpedo, and died. Even with a Focus and Stealth device, he was never able to fire a shot.

Then I proceeded to traffic jam/parking lot with my Academies and won anyways, luckily.

There is nothing broken about the Defender. A heavily defensive Chewie squad is one of those things that Defenders happen to be really good against, especially if the Defender is named Rexler Brath.

First off I am not saying they are broken. I am asking because the other day I was playing game of xwing trying a build for first time rexler brath with swarm tactics and hlc delta squadron with hlc and mauler mithel he was doing Biggs walks the dog. Chewy Biggs and kracken. I was able to kill Biggs after he killed my mithel but after that I was taking down chewy fast maybe 3 hull left he called it the store was closing and I was declared the winner. He begins to tell me all he has been facing is defenders with hlc lately and he has tried 15 different rebel builds against them and can't win against them . Also that they are broken because of white K turn and cannon upgrade hlc or that rebel doesn't have answer for them especially def with hlc. To the point that he wants to quit game. I know it could be just his tactics and how he plays but is anyone else experiencing problems with defenders and hlc. What rebel builds have been used that defeat them?

Played well , a defender with an HCL is a better and more dangerous ship than most people give it credit for. They are a very solid counter to rebel lists that feature low agility.

Your list is incredibly potent in that you have two ships that dish out an extraordinary amount of firepower at long range and high PS. While at long range, it denies your opponent any agility bonus while you are likely rolling 4 dice in your own defense. One thing people often don't recognize about the white 4k+HCL is that it can help you keep the fight at long range to your advantage and maintain your action. Then, even at close range you still have three ships firing early and MM brings his own ability to work (again at high PS).

What you have is not a broken ship but a well constructed list built to the strength of all ships involved. No matter who your opponent chooses to focus on the rest of your list will continue to put out damage. Brath is the obvious first choice, of course, as he's the most dangerous and most expensive, but the other two will also put out quite a bit of pain if ignored. And Brath isn't as easy to bring down as MM, especially at range.

I've run a similar 3 ship build to great effect. My biggest concern with that list be phantoms, maybe a TIE swarm and Rebel lists with multiple ions, especially if they have a HLC or two mixed in there as well.

I do quite like the Defender. It's just a different beast to fight against. If someone continues to employ tactics that may have worked well when Wave 2 or Wave 3 was here, it probably won't work now. The game keeps changing. I'm quite happy that it does.

I have been of the mind, since revealed,that defenders are overcosted. I am happy to see they are only 1pt or so too much by my estimation and one really good upgrade or two from being totally playable in all formats.

I was happy to be wrong...ish

3x base at 28 with a shield upgrade would give you 3 ships at 3/3/4/3. Any lower and we'd be calling it broken.. 30 is feeling like gravy in epic and hedging slightly for standard. Not a bad place to be.

Rexler with Predator and an HLC is nasty offensively and can be a bear to take down. But it costs 47 points - nearly half a standard tournament squad. That right there is why it isn't broken. And as someone mentioned, the Defender does not turn all that great. But still - a one tough ship, something I enjoy running occasionally.

Could a Defender with HLC beat a Super Falcon?

Could a Defender with HLC beat a Super Falcon?

It all goes to the probability math on that match 1vs1. So Han will put up 2 evades every single turn. You have a 40% chance of rolling 3 hits with a focus token and a 30% chance of getting 4 hits with a HLC. You have a slightly less chance of 29% chance of rolling just 2 hits. Han will likely shoot first and the Focus will be gone in defense and you odds drop to, about 23% for 3 hits, about 5% for 4 hits and 55% of the time 2 hits. So it really comes down to focus or not on this match. So with that it will take 8-9 shots to kill a Han Fat Falcon while 5-6 to kill the Defender.

I have only had a chance to play with defenders twice since I got them, but once you load them up with upgrades they get really expensive HSF level expensive.

I think the answer to a defender w/ HLC is simply to shoot it until it is dead. The funny thing is that is pretty much the answer to every ship in the game.

But seriously, when a defender shows up with a bunch of TIEs the target priority screams "Kill the defender!" So fast he is really hard to keep alive. What I wouldn't do for an imperial Biggs.

Could a Defender with HLC beat a Super Falcon?

Up to the dice.

Mine will.

Could a Defender with HLC beat a Super Falcon?

I've run a couple lists with Brath with HCL+ predator in tourneys recently (along with several other games with them) and a couple different sets of squadmates, but regardless, it rips falcons up (even in the three small-ship build I've run). While I don't think it is necessary to kill the super falcon, it is an incredibly efficient at putting damage on it.

Could a Defender with HLC beat a Super Falcon?

It all goes to the probability math on that match 1vs1. So Han will put up 2 evades every single turn. You have a 40% chance of rolling 3 hits with a focus token and a 30% chance of getting 4 hits with a HLC. You have a slightly less chance of 29% chance of rolling just 2 hits. Han will likely shoot first and the Focus will be gone in defense and you odds drop to, about 23% for 3 hits, about 5% for 4 hits and 55% of the time 2 hits. So it really comes down to focus or not on this match. So with that it will take 8-9 shots to kill a Han Fat Falcon while 5-6 to kill the Defender.

While these straight forward numbers are informative, it should be noted that the defender gains a significant advantage at R3 in this scenario and should be endeavoring to keep the fight at that range as much as possible.

Overall, I really like the Defender. I like its white K-Turn and its overall good stats. Too bad it seems to die too early, too soon in my games, mostly to focus fire.

Thanks for the responses and yeah I have read forums about defender dials suck because of turns. So his response baffled me a bit. And yeah I know 1 defense dice is easy pray for hlc. I play both sides have multiple builds that I like using for each but when a build permits I use hlcs. They seem to wreck ships and sometimes people I have played against get frustrated with them. On a platform like defender it gets amplified because of the k turns if done right also frustrate players.

Ion cannons fix that defender K turn nonsense.

Falcon vs defender obviously isn't a fair fight in a joust but give the defender outmanouver and get it behind the falcon it's a different case, with zero dodge falcons drop pretty fast.

Brath plus mini swarm will eat a falcon in two turns if the dice go your way, after that if the defender dies all you have is two escorts against four untouched ties.

Just got my second Defender, looks like a list worth flying.

Falcon vs defender obviously isn't a fair fight in a joust but give the defender outmanouver and get it behind the falcon it's a different case, with zero dodge falcons drop pretty fast. Brath plus mini swarm will eat a falcon in two turns if the dice go your way, after that if the defender dies all you have is two escorts against four untouched ties.

A lot of this game's interactions and balance break down when you start to compare 1 ship vs 1 ship. Too much is balanced for coordination and teamwork.