I've always wondered, why not expose on Vader. He seems like a perfect candidate. It makes him essentially a ptl x-wing that doesn't take stress. And can get the extra green/die defensivly when needed.

In "normal mode", Vader works as normal: 33-point TIE Advanced, legendary for its lack of offensive output. Even if he was the right price before equipping him with Expose--which he's not, really--he's now overpriced by 4 points.

In "Expose mode", Vader works like a PS9 X-wing with no pilot ability (because you spend his extra action using Expose). He's now overpriced, in comparison to Wedge, by at least 5 points.

Vader + Expose is something a lot of people come up with after considering the problem with Expose for a while, and it looks okay--but only from the perspective of "where can I put Expose where it would do some good?" If you look at it from the perspective of what Vader + Expose can actually do, though, it becomes clear (to me, anyway) that it just makes him worse.

A rich benefactor like a former senator who turned bad should offer him a real ship, like a TIE Phantom

Vader in a phantom with VI, ACD, recon specialist and fire control system would be a decent dogfighter.

Vader in a tie phantom would break the game. ACD, jammer, outmaneuver, and rebel captive would make him so elusive that they would likely never get a good enough shot at him to kill him. Two actions a turn would let him barrel roll and focus, evade and focus, or worst case cloak and evade. You would have to screw up badly to lose with him.

well i mean surely there has to be a way to make Vader cost effective. everything has its niche in cost effectiveness

Four Words

Pro Ton Rock its

What about vader with elusiveness and stealth device? This, plus an evade and a focus can be really annoying!

however I've been seeing a lot of Vader flame on here

I think you might be mistaking Tie Advance flame for Vader. Most of us would recommend that people pick up a single TA, just so they can have Vader.

The thing with Vader is the same thing I've learned with the Defender. You must learn to love that 1 bank.

I think one of the underestimated strengths of playing Darth Vader is the psychological advantage of simply having him on the board.

When he's equipped with the requisite Engine Upgrade, chasing after Vader is a fool's errand, but he also can be **** annoying as a flanker and pecking ship. Intellectually, an experienced player likely knows that Vader is a big chunk of points that can't put out a lot of damage, but seeing him jet around your formation with his superior pilot skill and double-action maneuverability, Vader feels like more of a threat than he is.

If you can draw fire away from your other ships or get your opponent to divide his or her attention, even for a turn or two, you've created an opportunity to punish that distraction. In that function, Vader is often worth his point cost.

Vader with Engine Upgrade and Outmanouver, plus Echo and Whisper both with VI?

Echo and Whisper without ACD? Very bad idea.

does Vader fit better with other arc dodgers or without? im just curious what Echo and vader could potentially accomplish together with some other imps for filler

Search up Developing List: Echos of Vader's past.

When the inevitable buff to advanced happens + proton rockets and outmaneuver will make Vader awesome!

Vader plus two Phantoms is a fun one. Put VI on your phantoms and they're pretty good arc dodgers.

If you'd play him with two phantoms, why not go for generics and Decoy on Vader.

Go with:

Speaking of Vader... is this a horrible list?

Horrible? No.

But gunner and HLC on Krassis is overkill. Drop the gunner. Get a 3 pt crew of choice. (RC or RS/whatnot)

Plus I'd vote for upgrading the Tie to Backstabber. I'd drop the missiles on Vader for that.

The amount of hate Stabbie gets means that Krassis and /or Vader -which both are excellent endgame pieces- means your squad is likely more effective.

The remaining 2 points I'd either go for seismics or even an ini bid. Vader wants to move last.

Just my 2 cts.

Vader with Engine Upgrade and Outmanouver, plus Echo and Whisper both with VI?

Echo and Whisper without ACD? Very bad idea.

Why? If they're moving last you don't really need it. Cloaked or not cloaked makes little difference when nobody can shoot you.

Vader plus two Phantoms is a fun one. Put VI on your phantoms and they're pretty good arc dodgers.

If you'd play him with two phantoms, why not go for generics and Decoy on Vader.

Go with:

Darth Vader (29)

Decoy (2)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Sigma Squadron Pilot (25)

Fire-Control System (2)

Intelligence Agent (1)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Sigma Squadron Pilot (25)

Fire-Control System (2)

Intelligence Agent (1)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

For instance. Use the IA's to know where to go with the Phantoms, then during combat push the one most in danger up to 9 to take out the competition and dive back into cloak directly. Vader flies around to stay in range.

Mostly because I enjoy playing with name pilots and their skills. Also, I feel FCS on a phantom is somewhat pointless - few ships survive a focus fire from them, so you rarely get the target lock.

Vader with Engine Upgrade and Outmanouver, plus Echo and Whisper both with VI?

Echo and Whisper without ACD? Very bad idea.

Why? If they're moving last you don't really need it. Cloaked or not cloaked makes little difference when nobody can shoot you.

Vader plus two Phantoms is a fun one. Put VI on your phantoms and they're pretty good arc dodgers.

If you'd play him with two phantoms, why not go for generics and Decoy on Vader.

Go with:

Darth Vader (29)

Decoy (2)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Sigma Squadron Pilot (25)

Fire-Control System (2)

Intelligence Agent (1)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Sigma Squadron Pilot (25)

Fire-Control System (2)

Intelligence Agent (1)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

For instance. Use the IA's to know where to go with the Phantoms, then during combat push the one most in danger up to 9 to take out the competition and dive back into cloak directly. Vader flies around to stay in range.

Mostly because I enjoy playing with name pilots and their skills. Also, I feel FCS on a phantom is somewhat pointless - few ships survive a focus fire from them, so you rarely get the target lock.

How did they fare against Falcon builds?

Vader with Engine Upgrade and Outmanouver, plus Echo and Whisper both with VI?

Echo and Whisper without ACD? Very bad idea.

Why? If they're moving last you don't really need it. Cloaked or not cloaked makes little difference when nobody can shoot you.

Vader plus two Phantoms is a fun one. Put VI on your phantoms and they're pretty good arc dodgers.

If you'd play him with two phantoms, why not go for generics and Decoy on Vader.

Go with:

Darth Vader (29)

Decoy (2)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Sigma Squadron Pilot (25)

Fire-Control System (2)

Intelligence Agent (1)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Sigma Squadron Pilot (25)

Fire-Control System (2)

Intelligence Agent (1)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

For instance. Use the IA's to know where to go with the Phantoms, then during combat push the one most in danger up to 9 to take out the competition and dive back into cloak directly. Vader flies around to stay in range.

Mostly because I enjoy playing with name pilots and their skills. Also, I feel FCS on a phantom is somewhat pointless - few ships survive a focus fire from them, so you rarely get the target lock.

How did they fare against Falcon builds?

Only played with them against fighters; yeah, I can see how FCS system would be useful against big ships like that. Mind you, if my opponent plays with Falcons (named pilots, at any rate) then I go home in a sulk