Speaking if Vader I have been thinking of a Vader w/ outmaneuver + defender w/ ion+ firespray. Your post has inspired me.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! No Vader, EVER! Advanced is the worst worst worst worst worst worst worst ship by far.

you are wrong in only one part of that. vader is the only pilot that makes the advanced worth flying. he's still relevent if you can get a shot with him every round. it's just grinding at the damage. and yes you have to keep him from being shot so it's always an engine upgrade for the mod, and maybe a missile. normally a missile. maybe only to be a missile platform. and just because vader can make that ship dance.

I think Rexler Brath has great potential. Its ability is amazing, especially with the clarifications in the new FAQ.

Speaking if Vader I have been thinking of a Vader w/ outmaneuver + defender w/ ion+ firespray. Your post has inspired me.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! No Vader, EVER! Advanced is the worst worst worst worst worst worst worst ship by far.

you are wrong in only one part of that. vader is the only pilot that makes the advanced worth flying. he's still relevent if you can get a shot with him every round. it's just grinding at the damage. and yes you have to keep him from being shot so it's always an engine upgrade for the mod, and maybe a missile. normally a missile. maybe only to be a missile platform. and just because vader can make that ship dance.

But do you really want to spend a minimum 32 points on a two attack missile platform? No, you don't.

With outmaneuver he becomes quite good. He is PS 9, flies in a tough ship and can arc dodge very well with EU but that pushes you to 36. I think it's not too bad because then he becomes like a defender with two actions for 36. Try it out, Vader can do a pseudo k-turn with a hard 2 and a boost and still get an action.

With outmaneuver he becomes quite good. He is PS 9, flies in a tough ship and can arc dodge very well with EU but that pushes you to 36. I think it's not too bad because then he becomes like a defender with two actions for 36. Try it out, Vader can do a pseudo k-turn with a hard 2 and a boost and still get an action.

And, that pushes you to 36 points for a not nearly as good defender.

Imp aces two stick Vader in a defender and give him a down side like he can't mount a Canon, four dice with TL and a focus though expensive would be OP.

Arc dodging is powerful and he is one of the best and comes with two actions. He is expensive but a PS 9 flanker is really good to have.

Speaking if Vader I have been thinking of a Vader w/ outmaneuver + defender w/ ion+ firespray. Your post has inspired me.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! No Vader, EVER! Advanced is the worst worst worst worst worst worst worst ship by far.

you are wrong in only one part of that. vader is the only pilot that makes the advanced worth flying. he's still relevent if you can get a shot with him every round. it's just grinding at the damage. and yes you have to keep him from being shot so it's always an engine upgrade for the mod, and maybe a missile. normally a missile. maybe only to be a missile platform. and just because vader can make that ship dance.

But do you really want to spend a minimum 32 points on a two attack missile platform? No, you don't.

Yes... yes I do... and I do it regularly... and he's a great flanker... plus.. he intimidates opponents...

I am another fan of the Defender. It's named pilots do relentless damage. The only one I am not likely to play is the Onyx. I generally like to pay a Pilot Skill bid to get the better generic, but for 33, a single point more, I could have a Firespray with the same skill. Vessery is my favorite, but you have to build a list strategy around him. Rexler can do spectacular things to Falcons and Huge ships, even Chewbacca. And even the PS1 is a surprisingly durable, heavy hitting, fast ship. I do have a recommendation to first time flyers of the Defender: Engine Upgrade. That dial is fast, strange, and takes some practice. EU will give you a chance to correct a grievous error while learning. And hey, maybe you'll like it later on, as boosting after a K-turn opens a lot of options, but after a few games, there are definitely better upgrades.

Darth Vader is certainly an above average ship, especially with Engine Upgrade and/or Outmaneuver. I wouldn't call him a GOOD ship in the current game, as there are many ships that are much better, even ones that cost similarly. However, there are MANY ships that perform much worse than he does.

Unfortunately, I do not see a cost reduction on the TIE Advanced very likely. It is more durable than an X-wing but with less attack. Otherwise, it's quite similar. Even when you consider its dial, it plays like a faster X-wing. The only fixes we will get MAY give us more stuff for the same price, but more likely, it will INCREASE the price. But hey, if it does so in a worthwhile way, bring it on. Proposed Corrections: TIE Avenger X2 Title: Your Primary Weapon value increases by 2 Your upgrade icon gains the (system) icon. 4 Points. Or, how about this: Your upgrade bar gains 2 (system) icons. The cost of the cheapest of the two is reduced by 2, to minimum 0. 0 Points. First one makes them more potent and more versatile. Second is all about versatility but no extra firepower.

Not speculation, just some ideas that may help the Advanced. I just think its extremely unlikely they get a cost reduction in the vein of the A-wing. More likely they give us free stuff for the same cost, or give us an upgrade that improves the ship, but has a point cost.

I have said this many times. The only thing that makes the advanced not worth it is the time limit. In untimed games it is a very durable ship that performs well. I agree with your take on the defender. It is not always the better option then the firespray but the named defenders can be brutal.

I tried flying 3 defenders with an ion cannon each - its an interesting list, since you get enough ion shots to disable just about anything and you can still fire the regular guns for damage instead in later turns. Its great against elite ships, ion it on the approach, then k-turn behind them and start using the normal guns to blow them apart.

With outmaneuver he becomes quite good. He is PS 9, flies in a tough ship and can arc dodge very well with EU but that pushes you to 36. I think it's not too bad because then he becomes like a defender with two actions for 36. Try it out, Vader can do a pseudo k-turn with a hard 2 and a boost and still get an action.

And, that pushes you to 36 points for a not nearly as good defender.

And neither is nearly as good as Soontir or Echo or a Firespray or a shuttle.

The Onyx is better than people understand.

It's like this - PS3 is where Bounty Hunters live.

If/when it comes down to endgame vs a firespray list, the last two ships standing are most likely going to be the TIE Defender and the Bounty Hunter. You really want to be "going halfsies" with bounty hunters - it puts a huge amount of extra pressure on the other pilot, because an Onyx with an Ion Cannon (35 points) will usually crush a Bounty Hunter with Recon Specialist (36).

With outmaneuver he becomes quite good. He is PS 9, flies in a tough ship and can arc dodge very well with EU but that pushes you to 36. I think it's not too bad because then he becomes like a defender with two actions for 36. Try it out, Vader can do a pseudo k-turn with a hard 2 and a boost and still get an action.

And, that pushes you to 36 points for a not nearly as good defender.

And neither is nearly as good as Soontir or Echo or a Firespray or a shuttle.

At best, that's exaggeration. At worst, they're actually closer than you think and simply have different roles to perform, especially regarding the defender, and since this thread is about that...

I have not flown a ship that I think is a match for the "jack of all trades" that a defender is. It is agile, hard hitting (especially with a HLC), and resilient. The white k-turn is essentially an additional pilot ability right now and gives even the basic defender options no other ship can match without upgrades.

I think it is very interesting ship in that people seem to be on extremes about its value.

The Onyx is better than people understand.

It's like this - PS3 is where Bounty Hunters live.

If/when it comes down to endgame vs a firespray list, the last two ships standing are most likely going to be the TIE Defender and the Bounty Hunter. You really want to be "going halfsies" with bounty hunters - it puts a huge amount of extra pressure on the other pilot, because an Onyx with an Ion Cannon (35 points) will usually crush a Bounty Hunter with Recon Specialist (36).

But the Ion cannon is useless against the BH. You need 2 Ion token to ionize a large base.

The Onyx is better than people understand.

It's like this - PS3 is where Bounty Hunters live.

If/when it comes down to endgame vs a firespray list, the last two ships standing are most likely going to be the TIE Defender and the Bounty Hunter. You really want to be "going halfsies" with bounty hunters - it puts a huge amount of extra pressure on the other pilot, because an Onyx with an Ion Cannon (35 points) will usually crush a Bounty Hunter with Recon Specialist (36).

But the Ion cannon is useless against the BH. You need 2 Ion token to ionize a large base.

Shoot it twice?

I like the Jack-of-all trades reference. That's what I was trying to point out. There is nothing that the defender is bad at. It can fill the tank role, the dogfighter role and the control ship roll. I really love that flexibility and I think it pairs VERY well with a Firespray to create the "rock and a hard place" type lists that make your opponent have to decide on what hard target they want to go after. I also really like that I rarely Have a turn when I don't have a shot on something. I usually have at least one turn with a firespray where he is in a bad spot and can't shoot and it's usually as I am nearing the board edge while shooting from the rear arc and have to make a hard turn. With the defender I seem to be always in pursuit not being Pursued.

The Onyx is better than people understand.

It's like this - PS3 is where Bounty Hunters live.

If/when it comes down to endgame vs a firespray list, the last two ships standing are most likely going to be the TIE Defender and the Bounty Hunter. You really want to be "going halfsies" with bounty hunters - it puts a huge amount of extra pressure on the other pilot, because an Onyx with an Ion Cannon (35 points) will usually crush a Bounty Hunter with Recon Specialist (36).

But the Ion cannon is useless against the BH. You need 2 Ion token to ionize a large base.

The Ion Cannon is, shockingly enough, not useless against the BH.

First of all, it denies them their bonus defensive die at range 3 - important when they have RecSpec and really want that 3rd green to push the odds in their favor.

Secondly, Once you've placed one ion token on them it dramatically restricts their movement options. They can't go within ~2 range increments of the board edge. They can't risk getting anywhere near rocks. If they do, they lose - because in the former case they fly off the board. In the latter case they end up on a rock with no action and no shot, and from there it is trivial for you to win the damage race.

The Onyx is better than people understand.

It's like this - PS3 is where Bounty Hunters live.

If/when it comes down to endgame vs a firespray list, the last two ships standing are most likely going to be the TIE Defender and the Bounty Hunter. You really want to be "going halfsies" with bounty hunters - it puts a huge amount of extra pressure on the other pilot, because an Onyx with an Ion Cannon (35 points) will usually crush a Bounty Hunter with Recon Specialist (36).

But the Ion cannon is useless against the BH. You need 2 Ion token to ionize a large base.

Shoot it twice?

Somehow forgot that the large ship keep the token until it gets Ionize. But still, it can work, but I don't think it would crush it.

Having played the matchup recently, I can tell you that it is pretty shockingly in favor of the Onyx. Once you have a token on them, they just have nowhere left to go and you can very reliably predict and avoid their firing arcs. They're forced to take serious risks just to line up shots.

I too am starting to think the Ion cannon is really good on a defender. With one ship you can Ion then line up a range 1 shot at 4 dice. I did this to wedge and dropped him in two rounds of firing.

Ran two Onyx and a bounty hunter with recon specialist today, was a little worried ps3 across the board might bite me in the butt yet it turned out to be no problem, faced horn with a b-wing and a pair of headhunter took out horn first after firespray lost a couple of shields, b-wing died next then the headhunters fell quickly after that, all three of my ships still had shields left as well.

Once again that k turn proved it's worth.

Tie Defender with the HLC is awesome. It was the MVP of my games with my brothers. Even though it does much of the killing, they usually don't attack my Defender and go after other targets like a Firespray or Shuttle I pair it up with.

But pairing Vessery with HLC with Captain Yorr with the ST-321 is very synergetic. ANd pairing Vessery with HLC with KRassis with HLC makes them a deadly pair.

Call me a convert. First few times playing it and against it, I was very unimpressed. I could kill it easily and it would die when I try to joust with it.

In the past week I've dedicated myself to learning how to fly this thing that has some weird moves, and while I still make mistakes and oftentimes leave the defender flying off somewhere not shooting for 3-4 turns, I've finally figured out how to fly it. That K-turn is a BEAST! Once you know how to control the angle and flank, when I K-turn, I can get things perfectly in arc. It even kept Soontir in arc quite a few times, because it can turn back and forth.

With engine upgrade it's even crazier, but I understand now why it's a nice to have and not necessary. The barrel roll is often enough.

onyx definitely is worth the points if you have them. Being able to shoot at the same time as a BH or before all the bandit, academy, doom shuttle, and blues is crazy good.

I think like the phantoms, defender has a somewhat steep learning curve, but it is almost as rewarding to play as a phantom once you get the hang of it and understand its role.

Welcome to the club, defender love was mocked at first all people saw was the points cost and wrote it off without ever playing it, now we are getting threads asking how to counter it

Just goes to show ffg do playtest their products.

The phantom was kind of a flash in the pan because everyone and their dog rushed to buy falcons, the answer to that of course is rexler who can eat superfalcons with the right support.