I do not run the Shuttle now without EU and Adv S. It just does not pull its weight without those two upgrades IMHO.

Vader finds your lack of faith disturbing.

Base doomshuttle is one of the best setups in the game, IMO. And only 24 pts, less then a quarter of your squad.

Well I guess you are right about a doomshuttle. If I want to not commit suicide that is my base setup.

Speaking if Vader I have been thinking of a Vader w/ outmaneuver + defender w/ ion+ firespray. Your post has inspired me.

Speaking if Vader I have been thinking of a Vader w/ outmaneuver + defender w/ ion+ firespray. Your post has inspired me.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! No Vader, EVER! Advanced is the worst worst worst worst worst worst worst ship by far.

I've said it before on these boards, HLC is crazy good on a Defender. They make it just completely rule the range 3 band. I also think people underestimate the combination of AGI 3 with 6 hit points. Most AGI 3 ships have 3 hit points, which means they're hard to land damage, but occasionally get one-shotted. With the 3 Shields/3 Hull of the Defender, it's work to eat through all that at AGI 3, particularly if the Defender is hanging out at long range with an HLC.

My favorite setup so far is Brath, HLC, and Veteran Instincts. You lose a little output by making a PS bid, but it's less of a bid and more of a guarantee. You get to know that you'll have the advantage on arc dodgers and always know when you'll need to barrel roll.

Speaking if Vader I have been thinking of a Vader w/ outmaneuver + defender w/ ion+ firespray. Your post has inspired me.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! No Vader, EVER! Advanced is the worst worst worst worst worst worst worst ship by far.

You keep saying this but the data doesn't support your dislike of Vader.. it is widely known he is the best of the Advanced and is one of the best units ... he doesn't see much play as many dont want to pay the price of his use..

Vader with outmaneuver is quite impressive. Actually if I give him EU he would be even better and it would be 3 hard to kill ships.

And 35 points for a 2 dice forward attacker.

Speaking if Vader I have been thinking of a Vader w/ outmaneuver + defender w/ ion+ firespray. Your post has inspired me.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! No Vader, EVER! Advanced is the worst worst worst worst worst worst worst ship by far.

You keep saying this but the data doesn't support your dislike of Vader.. it is widely known he is the best of the Advanced and is one of the best units ... he doesn't see much play as many dont want to pay the price of his use..

Yes, the best of the ADVANCED the worst ship in the game. And don't tell me it's not because there was a 22 page thread about all the ways it was so bad. 2 attack dice on a 21 points minimum ship is just not good. Sorry.

I did say It was expensive, and many don't fly him for that reason.

I like Vader, he is fun to fly. I also dig the built in PtL, I also advocate the EU and Outmaneuver build...

Speaking if Vader I have been thinking of a Vader w/ outmaneuver + defender w/ ion+ firespray. Your post has inspired me.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! No Vader, EVER! Advanced is the worst worst worst worst worst worst worst ship by far.

You keep saying this but the data doesn't support your dislike of Vader.. it is widely known he is the best of the Advanced and is one of the best units ... he doesn't see much play as many dont want to pay the price of his use..

Yes, the best of the ADVANCED the worst ship in the game. And don't tell me it's not because there was a 22 page thread about all the ways it was so bad. 2 attack dice on a 21 points minimum ship is just not good. Sorry.

You don't have t be sorry...

As I said, Vader has been touted as one of the best ships, regardless that it is an advanced. Also, it has been called the most survivable ship in the game... your obvious dislike for it doesn't change the facts...

Speaking if Vader I have been thinking of a Vader w/ outmaneuver + defender w/ ion+ firespray. Your post has inspired me.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! No Vader, EVER! Advanced is the worst worst worst worst worst worst worst ship by far.

You keep saying this but the data doesn't support your dislike of Vader.. it is widely known he is the best of the Advanced and is one of the best units ... he doesn't see much play as many dont want to pay the price of his use..

Yes, the best of the ADVANCED the worst ship in the game. And don't tell me it's not because there was a 22 page thread about all the ways it was so bad. 2 attack dice on a 21 points minimum ship is just not good. Sorry.

You don't have t be sorry...

As I said, Vader has been touted as one of the best ships, regardless that it is an advanced. Also, it has been called the most survivable ship in the game... your obvious dislike for it doesn't change the facts...

Yes, it can survive. Wow. if you want to do that take any ship and run away.

I did say It was expensive, and many don't fly him for that reason.

I like Vader, he is fun to fly. I also dig the built in PtL, I also advocate the EU and Outmaneuver build...

He's fun to fly but he's not good. There's a difference.

You seem to be under the misconception that Vader isn't a good ship to fly.. it's quite the contrary..also, he's one of the best pilot abilities, if not the best... like I said, just because you dislike the advanced, doesn't make it the worst...

You seem to be under the misconception that Vader isn't a good ship to fly.. it's quite the contrary..also, he's one of the best pilot abilities, if not the best... like I said, just because you dislike the advanced, doesn't make it the worst...

Not gonna lie.

Vader is barely playable.

He's great at flanking...

but then he gets behind his target and goes, "I have you now!"

...

and nobody takes much notice, because he has two attack in a game where it takes three to make anything useful happen.

You seem to be pretty confused - it's you showing the bias here, not other guy.

Vader is cool.

Vader is fun.

We all like flying Vader.

We just don't like shooting things with him.

The upgrades and all its surrounding supporting ships are what make the defender great. Not viceversa.

Playing with a Defender is similar to a football match, when the entire team works opening the way for a single player in order to score a goal, and then, people praise that single player as the best player in the world.

I'm stating facts as they have been found.. your assumptions are just that..

Oh you need to support the defender for it to shine, but isn't that true for things like the falcon as well without a few ships for support the falcons incapable of winning solo.

I've only played 3 games with the defender. In two of the three it died SUPER fast for it's agility and hit points, so consider me un-impressed so far.

You can chalk that up to either poor rolling (out of your control, sometimes it happens) or being focused down with no support ("Primaried"). Three defense dice is easy enough to overcome if one focus fires, and Defenders, while seldomly seen (at least in my meta, SoCal), are just scary enough to be focused down quickly when given the opportunity.

That and you do NOT fly them as you would a typical TIE.

They are not good... that way.

You seem to be under the misconception that Vader isn't a good ship to fly.. it's quite the contrary..also, he's one of the best pilot abilities, if not the best... like I said, just because you dislike the advanced, doesn't make it the worst...

Not gonna lie.

Vader is barely playable.

He's great at flanking...

but then he gets behind his target and goes, "I have you now!"

...

and nobody takes much notice, because he has two attack in a game where it takes three to make anything useful happen.

You seem to be pretty confused - it's you showing the bias here, not other guy.

Vader is cool.

Vader is fun.

We all like flying Vader.

We just don't like shooting things with him.

I have to agree... Vader is a bad-ass, but NOT in that crap sad-chance... Uhh... I mean TIE Advanced.

Vader sucks in this game... and that ain't cool.

The upgrades and all its surrounding supporting ships are what make the defender great. Not viceversa.

Playing with a Defender is similar to a football match, when the entire team works opening the way for a single player in order to score a goal, and then, people praise that single player as the best player in the world.

Nah, this analogy doesn't fit in my experience, that is, no more or less than almost any other ship in the game.

I have to add a caveat. Vader sux at TIMED games. In a casual untimed setting the advanced is actually very good because it is extremely durable. I play quite a bit of untimed games with my bro-in-law and the Advanced is a favorite of us both.

Mr. Vessery, HLC, Outmaneuver and Engine Upgrade.

Support with ships of your choice that can provide target locks and watch the opposition melt.

If you want to kill B-Wings and YT's this is the bad boy to get it done.

Pretty much everything else doesn't like it either.

Sorry, how do Vessery and clusters work specifically?

He will get free target locks for both attacks if the target already has a red target lock on it.