Latest Diary is up now, covering Hive Desoleum's creation.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4973

Some of my favorite art in this one too

-Tim

Good to see that Camelbak is still going strong in the 41st millennium. I like the art. Really nailed the decrepitude of a hive.

Question: with such a strong focus on this one location in the core book, have you included mechanical support for player characters being from this location? If the hive's society is structured around a system of oaths, and if players aren't Desoleum natives, how does it work when new people arrive on-world? Strikes me as an easily exploitable system for people who aren't forced to live in the hive and can leave whenever they want, or for nobles who have enough power to violate any oaths they have to less powerful groups.

Strikes me as an easily exploitable system for people who aren't forced to live in the hive and can leave whenever they want, or for nobles who have enough power to violate any oaths they have to less powerful groups.

Just pondering this one myself, for what kind of answers I would come up as a GM in this setting...

For the first, the easy answer is not allow anyone to "leave whenever they want" ... departure from the hive could easily be tied into the oath system. Part of getting a permit for departure would involve a review of your oaths and sureties that they have been fulfilled or properly passed on. Anyone departing without such sureties would certainly be able to escape the system but would face serious consequence upon returning.

For the second, in oath based societies anyone with a reputation as an oath-breaker is someone others won't do business with. A noble who breaks his oaths, to anyone, will find that others will not make oaths with him because he has shown himself to be untrustworthy. Simply put, no one has the power to violate oaths with lesser groups because the only power they do have is based on the presumption that they will fulfill any oath... and failure to do so, even an oath to your laundry maid, makes you oath-breaker. Anyone who makes a habit of breaking oaths finds himself cut off from society and unable to survive.

Strikes me as an easily exploitable system for people who aren't forced to live in the hive and can leave whenever they want, or for nobles who have enough power to violate any oaths they have to less powerful groups.

Just pondering this one myself, for what kind of answers I would come up as a GM in this setting...

For the first, the easy answer is not allow anyone to "leave whenever they want" ... departure from the hive could easily be tied into the oath system. Part of getting a permit for departure would involve a review of your oaths and sureties that they have been fulfilled or properly passed on. Anyone departing without such sureties would certainly be able to escape the system but would face serious consequence upon returning.

For the second, in oath based societies anyone with a reputation as an oath-breaker is someone others won't do business with. A noble who breaks his oaths, to anyone, will find that others will not make oaths with him because he has shown himself to be untrustworthy. Simply put, no one has the power to violate oaths with lesser groups because the only power they do have is based on the presumption that they will fulfill any oath... and failure to do so, even an oath to your laundry maid, makes you oath-breaker. Anyone who makes a habit of breaking oaths finds himself cut off from society and unable to survive.

This probably gets to how we view human nature, but I'm still not convinced. For free travel, all you need is the buy-in of those who control travel to travel freely. Combined with the second point about breaking oaths, as long as the value of working with a wealthy, powerful noble who happens to break oaths with the working class exceeds that of shunning them, that noble won't face the negative blowback from breaking those oaths.

A system like this, to me, would lead to a powerful upper class who honor oaths between themselves while exploiting the system against those too weak to enforce the rules.

So basically it's the modern American corporatocracy.

If the core book is heavily focused on this hive (and planet).

My main question is the direction of future books - will we for instance get anew books that heavily explores another planet (Including culture, advanced classes/specialties for that planet, gear all tied into the wolrd) or is this just a one off for the core book (to increase it's value to people who already have all of first edition by being a highly detailed write up of a planet).

Apart from pre-written campaigns most worlds received very cursory write ups in the 40k rpgs to date, its' nice to see them really focusing on one.

So basically it's the modern American corporatocracy.

Which is one valid interpretation and, if you will forgive a little pop-psych, probably one based on cultural context and experience.

For myself, I'm presently steeped in Arthurian mythology and medieval folklore for a fantasy game I'm running... so I'm pretty deep into the ideals of a society based on oaths and the value of one's sworn word. Drawing on that, I can create what I consider to be an equally valid interpretation of the ideals under which Desoleum's oath based society could work.

At the heart is the ideal of "my word is my bond." My oath doesn't carry weight because of who I give it to, it carries weight because of who I am. Whether I make a promise to a factory dreg or a high noble, the worth of my oath is a reflection of me not them. So if I break an oath to that factory dreg, I have lost honor and worth, just the same as if I have broken my oath of the high noble.

The real issue is whether you want Desoleum to be an foreign culture rooted in honor and the value of oaths, or a more familiar culture of greed and corruption with a sheen of oaths. Both are valid and have great potential for stories.

The real issue is whether you want Desoleum to be an foreign culture rooted in honor and the value of oaths, or a more familiar culture of greed and corruption with a sheen of oaths. Both are valid and have great potential for stories.

I guess we'll find out which way they went for the core book, but that still leaves the question of where PCs fit into this. Is there mechanical support for tying them into this oath system, and if not how does it work when off-worlders come to town and try to spend their thrones or whatever?

The real issue is whether you want Desoleum to be an foreign culture rooted in honor and the value of oaths, or a more familiar culture of greed and corruption with a sheen of oaths. Both are valid and have great potential for stories.

I guess we'll find out which way they went for the core book, but that still leaves the question of where PCs fit into this. Is there mechanical support for tying them into this oath system, and if not how does it work when off-worlders come to town and try to spend their thrones or whatever?

I haven't followed the Beta very closely but didn't it have Influence and Requisition test mechanic for obtaining stuff?

Influence characteristic of an acolyte would represent the oaths in that hive and thrones elsewhere. It's a bit gamey but works.

OT: I'm falling more and more deeply concerned with the ultra focus of the CORE book and that until some splatbooks come out it will be very hard to run adventures elsewhere.

DH1 had basic level of fleshing out with Scintilla(Hive), Iocanthos(Feral), Sepheris Secundus(Mining) and The Misericord(Void Ship) and a broad stroke of NPCs for everybody (except Ordo Xenos).

The only bad thing about DH1 Core was that none of those worlds were in any real level of detail unfortunately. They were minimalist styles. Drove me nuts.

Did the devs go back to old GW games like Necromunda for inspiration? I'd think it's hard not to go back to those and take a gander. Necromunda especially was a great game, with phenomenal background. Well rounded really.

Also, I always felt that some worlds were a bit too generalized with regards to backgrounds and stats for characters. Forge world guys get this, always, hive world guys get this always. If you come from a specific region of a hive or a gang, I would think that would affect your background and stats as much as the planet you came from, if not more. I mean, in a forge world where everything has it's place and appears orderly, to be a ganger of some sort, an extortionist or a thief or smuggler, that meant you HAD to be good at staying hidden, etc. I'd love to see that type of mutability come into play with creating player characters.

And maybe this first planet with this in depth hive is just the starting point.

Maybe I'm alone on this, but I don't think Desoleum sounds even remotely interesting. The short descriptions of these oaths and their physical tokens (including weaponized ones) sounds too silly to me. Oh well, I can always opt for my own setting or the DH1 setting.

Maybe I'm alone on this, but I don't think Desoleum sounds even remotely interesting. The short descriptions of these oaths and their physical tokens (including weaponized ones) sounds too silly to me. Oh well, I can always opt for my own setting or the DH1 setting.

DH1 had a hive characterized by everyone having a gun, and another characterized by everyone having a knife, and another characterized by everyone having shoddy makeshift guns...

40k is inherently silly, is what I'm saying. At least the oaths influence the social dynamics in a unique way and facilitate stories other than: "[generic gangers] are attacking you with [place-specific weapons]".