1. So, for a Soontir example, it would be weighting = (mean cost of Soontir) * (number of Fels there were) / (mean position in win rankings the Fel squads came in)?
2. Plus, if Alpha is ran the same amount as Soontir and its squads win the same number of times, it gets a lower ranking because it comprises less of the squad, correct?

1) No. Each instance of a ship / pilot / upgrade is counted separately, and each instance is given its own weighting. Then you add up the total weighted points of ALL ships / pilots / upgrades, and see what percentage of the total a certain pilot represents.

2) Correct. If a squad has an Alpha Squadron Pilot (18 points), and Soontor Fel + Push the Limit (30 points), then Fel will be weighted heavier than the Alpha, because I measure by points spent. But cheaper pilots get used more, so it makes up for it. Check out the % points spent on ships: Z-95s and TIEs are cheap but still represent a huge % of points spent.

Ah, okay, I get it now. That must take forever to do.

As for 2), wasn't saying it was a flaw, just making sure I understood it properly. Factoring in a way to stop Academies dominating by weight of numbers rather than weight of awesomeness is pretty **** clever in my book.

Ah, okay, I get it now. That must take forever to do.

Excel calculates it for me automatically, I just have to enter the points spent on each pilot / upgrade on a per-squad basis. It still takes forever, next version I'll write a script to simply parse the text and do everything. If you are really curious you can download the ~60MB Excel file linked in the Regionals thread.

Ah, okay, I get it now. That must take forever to do.

Excel calculates it for me automatically, I just have to enter the points spent on each pilot / upgrade on a per-squad basis. It still takes forever, next version I'll write a script to simply parse the text and do everything. If you are really curious you can download the ~60MB Excel file linked in the Regionals thread.

Thank you thank you thank you MajorJuggler. Thank you again.

Also, really nice stats on Fel. I feel a little safer playing Fel in my list now!

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I do feel like the Falcon+C3PO and the turrets are just even more brutal to interceptors than they are to phantoms. Interceptors have it hard now.

But i would have said the same thing the data said (with one exception):

Fel

Alpha

Royal

Carnor (He's utterly destructive if you are good enough to land him in sweet spots.)

Turr (I thought he might be really good, but it seems like most people are just like me: can't fly him well enough to make up for the cost.)

Interceptors are getting a little expensive. would be great if they were down 1 or 2 pts too.

MajorJuggler, what does your math say about the cost effectiveness of the named interceptors? and the generic? (I subjectively feel the generics are in the right place)

MajorJuggler, what does your math say about the cost effectiveness of the named interceptors? and the generic? (I subjectively feel the generics are in the right place)

If you are referring to the point value formulas that I developed (not the Regionals thread), then I only look at base ships, and not abilities. The Alpha isn't a very good jouster, but if you build your entire TIE Swarm around that (Swarm Tactics and/or Stealth Device and keeping them in the rear), you can still squeeze 2 of them into a 6 TIE list, as seen in wave 3 Regionals.

The only generics that see any real use in wave 4 so far are Z-95's, B-wings, and TIE Fighters. Not that you can't make it work with other ships, but generally they are less efficient. Unless you're talking Lambda shuttles, which are MORE efficient, but you have to be able to set them up and fly them perfectly.

I love Interceptors and have tried to use them in pretty much every format, from the three souped up elite Interceptors to Alphas or Avengers in packs of 5. They have always been reasonable, but I haven't ever experienced a period where the Interceptor was anything more than a solid flanker, unless when they first came out they were dominant. Interceptors live and die by their ability to avoid arcs. With the meta as it currently exists and with the on-coming Wave 5 (and to a lesser extent, Rebel Aces), I don't think you will see Interceptors much except in two forms (as backed up by the regionals data): cheap swarm filler for ATT 3 (Alphas) and elite flanker (Fel, possibly Jax or Fennir).The multitude of turrets (thanks to anti-Phantom paranoia and the ridiculousness of the Superfalcon) hits Interceptors harder than Phantoms. High PS spam likewise nails Interceptors as hard or harder than Phantoms. In fact, Phantoms themselves have relegated Interceptors to a secondary choice for the ultra mobile flanker role.

Mid-skill interceptors (Saber through PS7 or so) have always been iffy, but at least in previous meta, you could expect mostly lower pilot skill and could still reasonably run mid-range Interceptors. At this point, I see virtually no benefit in doing so.

Bear in mind, I don't think the Interceptor was ever meant to be a squadron unto itself, but rather always a part of a more diverse group. With the state of the game, I see virtually no way that it could be anything else at this point and even the chances of getting lucky with an Interceptor build in a tournament are slim to none.

pah SON DONT THINK THAT THE INTERCEPTOR IS DEAD !! as long as i fly em u have to not worry a single bit about em anymore harr harr harr harrr !!!!.

seriously look at my signature how many interceptors i do own O.o i love those beasts !!!

and yes crits do hurt us interceptor pilots alot !!

I know this is only one data point, but I was able to defeat a Han/Lando list with Soontir Fel (w/PTL), Tur Fennir, Howlrunner (w/ST) and a pair of Academy TIEs. I actually came in second in the store tourney behind that list (something to do with the strength of schedule).

Anyway I just focused fire on Lando and kept my interceptors zipping in and out from behind asteroids. I made a couple of bad moves, but the dice saved me. (How many times can you say that in this game?)

Once I took out Lando, Han lost his extra action and I did the same thing to him. I had him at one hull when we ran out of time. I only lost Howlrunner.

I was scared going into the match, but I really worked to get some high-value shots in. I don't know what would have happened if the dice weren't rolling my way, but I love the Interceptors. This is now my go-to list if i want to do well in a tournament.

I think the Interceptor has more to worry from Rebel Aces than from Wave 4. The stress management options of some of those pilots, have me concerned.

Well, that's my $0.02.

Soontir is good because of his PS 9 and ability to generally counter Phantoms fairly successfully whilst being less points than them. Whilst the strong Phantom meta remains, Alphas and Soontir will largely be most of what you see. As Phantom's lose popularity (I see this happening with the inclusion of Rebel Aces (B-Wing that can fire missiles out of arc) and Wave V (two tough turreted ships that a Phantom can't quickly overcome), then some of the other Squints will come back into their own. They are unlikely to regain the popularity that they enjoyed after the release of Imperial Aces though as most of the stuff that counters Phantoms works equally as well against Squints.

Jax is surprisingly good against Super Falcons, Swarms, among other lists. He is my Interceptor of choice.

Yep, ahead of Fel in my book for utility.

I love Interceptors but I never use more than two in a standard game, and I think thats fairly common choice that would reflect on the frequence that we see it used in ranking tourniment lists. Recently I've been using the fel, Turr, or RGP with PTL, Hull and Shield upgrades. Its expensive but it ensures that they survive those crucial turns when I couldn't or didn't arc dodge enough.

I just realized I made up 3 of the 7 usages of RGP in regionals...well hot dog. Also, YTs and turrets don't phase me. When I can reliably beat those lists with only losing a ship or two if any, I don't find them scary. I actually find a well flown XXBB list to be much more of a challenge, usually netting me a for sure lose of 2 ships.

EDIT: Hull upgrade rejuvenated interceptors.

The meta certainly isn't too favourable towards Interceptors right now, but I think this will change shortly.

Souped up A-Wings and B-Wings will probably be coming back around once Rebel Aces hits. We already know that B-Wings can be weak to Interceptors, and Inteceptors will also be a natural choice to duel against similarly mobile Test Pilot A-Wings.

And even if this doesn't happen, Wave 5 will probably give Empire a solid support ship (and/or boost the Lambda's support role), meaning that some underused pilots like Kir Kanos or Tetran will come out to play. If you can Evade with Kir and receive a Fleet Officer Focus, he'll be a pretty deadly Range 3 sniper.

Waaaag doesn't make this very clear, but Interceptors have never been top dog. If they'd been in wave 1 they might have been, but the Falcon has always left them psuedo crippled.

As for Fel being the only viable option, Turr Phennir outclasses him. Royal Guards are good too. Lorrir is fantastic.

But your local meta is pretty off kilter if squints were topping it.

Wag doesn't make anything clear, ever. Every time I read his posts, I imagine Beaker's voice from the Muppet Show. And I mean that in the nicest way of course.

Subtlety is the purview of the witty. I simply assume my readers are intelligent enough to make basic inferences.

What. The. Heck. Is. Wrong. With. You. People. Squints are some of the best ships around. Throw Carnor against a super falcon and there goes his evade. Throw Supa Soonta against phantoms and pop goes 3hp with his focuses and ability to get behind ships. Throw Turr against a z/TIE swarm and he boosts out of the way after he shoots.

Yes i wouldn't take more than 2 squints in a normal game but that's only because i need more than 9/12 hp.

tiefanta

Throw Carnor against a super falcon and there goes his evade.

How do you make Carnor survive vs a Falcon?

Usually 4 red dice with predator/gunner/marksman/whateverImissed means almost certain death.

Enlighten me. for science.

I highly disagree. IN a recent tourney top player was running Jax and 3rd (me) was running jax and 2 royals along with Howl.

They are fun to fly and they can win vs dual falcons (I did) and some other falcon mixed lists. Jax I think is the glue vs falcons or other ships with recon spec. taking away that makes chewy less of a pain.

Now INTs can get one shotted off the board, and that does stink. But its a high risk/ high reward. heck I think I may switch over to 5 INTs. if you can keep them alive, 15 possible hits going out....Yes please.

Short answer, nope.

Fel, Phennir, RGP, and Lorrir, are all viable. Heck I'll go on a limb and say the only ones that aren't very viable are Tetran Cowell, and Fel's Wrath (with the others I mentioned probably being the best).

tiefanta

Throw Carnor against a super falcon and there goes his evade.

How do you make Carnor survive vs a Falcon?

Usually 4 red dice with predator/gunner/marksman/whateverImissed means almost certain death.

Enlighten me. for science.

I think you try to only take 1 hit a round. So if a Falcon has a bad first roll, take the one hit. The Falcon will hopefully get focused down before Carnor eats it, but yeah, range 1 on a Falcon is a bad matchup for an Interceptor.

tiefanta

Throw Carnor against a super falcon and there goes his evade.

How do you make Carnor survive vs a Falcon?

Usually 4 red dice with predator/gunner/marksman/whateverImissed means almost certain death.

Enlighten me. for science.

I think you try to only take 1 hit a round. So if a Falcon has a bad first roll, take the one hit. The Falcon will hopefully get focused down before Carnor eats it, but yeah, range 1 on a Falcon is a bad matchup for an Interceptor.

Crits kill em. It's not that the damage deck was built against them but it sure feels that way... In fact I argued the need for a new damage deck pre-imperial aces because of how badly fragile, maneuverable, high PS ships are punished. They already pop from a hit and a crit but sometimes they dodge that hit and still get a crit that leaves them reading the water.

But your local meta is pretty off kilter if squints were topping it.

Care to explain a bit more?

Its means that squints have never been very scary in ANY meta since the day they came out. With turrets and falcons always in use, they auto hard countered ints since day 1.

If they are killing your local meta, then your local meta is nothing like the typical meta. Dare I say a bit shallow considered the prevalent use of falcons in every single other meta.

Your local meta is strange.

tiefanta

Throw Carnor against a super falcon and there goes his evade.

How do you make Carnor survive vs a Falcon?

Usually 4 red dice with predator/gunner/marksman/whateverImissed means almost certain death.

Enlighten me. for science.

I faced down five falcons in the tourney LukesFather is referring to, and I had just three small imperial ships, one of which was that Jax setup (and several other falcons in non-tourney games).

Seriously, give him a shot.

Turr Phennir is amazing for arc dodging. I actually like him better than Soontir. Plus, you can say his name like Carlos Mencia. "TURR PHENNIR!"