Like Papamambo, I remember this ship from the old West End Games Star Wars RPG, when it only existed as an entry and some simple "front and side" line art. I never much cared for the "humpback" look (and this thing is supposed to be maneuverable ?), but I have to say the CCG art made the concept a bit more palatable. I'd be curious to see a model.

It's the sort of ship that is also kind of attractive from an RPG point of view, in that it COULD be flown with just one person, but it can also carry passengers. (Wookieepedia entry lists it as having a crew of 1-3 PLUS 3 passengers.)

Visually, it has the bonus of sharing aesthetic elements with the TIE series of craft (so "obviously" an Imperial fit) yet not a typical "TIE bulb + different wings" sort of variant. Functionally, it's a very different role (support!) than most TIE designs.

I'm wondering whether I might be able to manage a kitbash, given that the wings are so flat (i.e., good contenders for plasticard). Given the canon length of 24m (meaning a model about 3.5" long), it would seem that this isn't the sort of thing where you'd just use a TIE Advanced for a base. (I suppose at 3.5" long, a Titanium model of Darth Vader's TIE Fighter might produce a cockpit bulb and main body that's about the right length for a starting point, but there's no way I'd want to try sawing through die-cast metal to replace the wings with plasticard.)

The Lambda is the HWK counterpart. I'm willing to bet the HWK was a large and got scaled down by LFL.

so, the wookepedia entry says its 24 meters long, is this a large ship then? cause TIE had me thinking small.

Let's not go there again...

Wookiee is wrong. The TIE/sr as depicted above is not 24 metres long.

I'd give it boost instead of BR.

What would the named pilot abilities be, in order to parallel but not mirror the HWK pilots?

Just figured I'd make sure this thread doesn't devolve into the 24m thing by killing it at the start.

The TIE/sr is about eight metres long, as you can see by this picture of it with the TIE bomber.

This is how it appears in Empire at War, the game that has it in, and it looks sensible, no?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the WEG RPG didn't have schematics or a picture, and thus that 24m length is just a number pulled out of the air. How do we reconcile it with the TIE/sr's depiction?

Let's make it 24m while keeping it in its current proportions.

We all agree that a cockpit window like that is kind of silly, as is this whole JumboTIE itself. Just look at it next to the TIE bomber.

Then we have just the length stretch.

That's also a fairly silly looking ship, but it's a possibility for this "Lone Scout A" for those who don't want to concede the Lone Scout as described by the old RPG is wholly incompatible with the depiction of the TIE/sr.

I maintain that the Lone Scout probably has a different (although still TIEesque) design and what it shares is likely controls and the internal stuff like engines and sensor packages: it doesn't share a hull.

For the TIE/sr, however, I have little doubt is in the dimensions depicted in the first picture: it's the size of a TIE.

I like the idea for this ship, for named pilot abilities perhaps something to reflect some kind of electronic warfare?

Action: Target a ship within range 1-3. Remove one token from that ship (except for stress token) and roll 1 attack die. Deal any [damage] or [critical] rolled.

At the end of the activation phase remove all enemy target locks from ships at range 1-2. (possibly make this an action if too OP as a free skill, and have it activate immediately)

At the start of the combat phase reduce the pilot skill of all enemy pilots at range 1-3 by 2 to a minimum of 0.

*Granted these aren't really "scout" like abilities.

I can sort of get behind the idea of another support-type ship for the Imperials but man...that TIE/SR is just so darn ugly!

If we're taking ships from that Empire at War art, give me that tasty looking missile boat.

I would be leary of pricing it at 17 points. Keep in mind that this thing itself can't actually kill anything. 1 attack is so awful that it's never worth running the HWK without a turret, and if you get the secondary weapons malfunction, you're done. So the generic pilot would be 100% useless. Which means that the true starting point would be at least 19 points for a named pilot (likely without an EPT) who is basically there for his ability, so all of the abilities need to be awesome. You have to want to target the scout first because if its left for last, not only does it not have anyone to buff, but it can't do anything itself.

As such, I would think 14 points would be a better starting place, and then you could have the named start up at 16-17.

This.

I like the idea of the ship as a pure support ship. So far we have zero pure support ships, because the HWK has a turret slot. My traditional MathWing won't be helpful in figuring out the cost, because it doesn't have an attack.

The Rebel Operative is 16 points, and almost never gets used. I would suggest going over-board on the support capability to make up for having no attack. Absolutely give it the coordinate action since it is a support ship. Here is a starting point:

Cost: ?? @ TBD PS

1/3/4/0

Dial: TIE Interceptor

Actions: Focus, Barrel Roll, Boost, Coordinate.

Upgrades: System Slot, 3x Crew slots

Useful crew options are actually quite limited, but Mara Jade is obviously one of them.

Edit: I would also consider something like:

Title (unique). TIE Scout only.

Cost: 0

All System Upgrades and Crew cost 1 less.

I remember that ship from EaW, and it did NOT fly like a Squint. It was, at best, slightly more maneuverable than a regular Fighter. I'd say give it a TIE Fighter dial, but give it white 1 banks as well. Keep the same greens. Maybe remove the 3k as well.

Many of the options for the special ability for the Scout are, frankly, ridiculous. Moving your opponent's deployment? Sure, let's just assume that the Rebels are wholly incapable of mounting a concerted defense, not to mention that we could just turn their ships around so turn 1 they fly off the board. Reducing their PS? Hey, let's make EVERYTHING vulnerable to Predator!

No, the best option is what MJ suggested...give them the Coordinate action. It helps all your other ships out, matching fluff, and it doesn't destroy the game in the process. At that point, the scout has an option...does it focus/evade to live? Or does it coordinate and potentially die helping its buddies? Cause I know who I'd primary...3 hull three defense is no tougher than a Squint or an Eyeball, and I murder those pretty well already...

Three crew is a lot for a ship that small.

The HWK, the Firespray and the TIE phantom, which are comparable in terms of interior space, get one. Outright shuttles and freighters like the Lambda and the Millennium Falcon only get two slots: the Outrider has to make do with one. The Decimator gets three but it's practically a mini capital ship in role.

I like your design otherwise, although I'd make a few thematic tweaks. Might be interesting to give it a competing title (or modification, I'd make them both mods) that allows it to take a free Evade action when it takes a Coordinate action.

So far we have zero pure support ships

I take it the GR-75 is excluded for being not standard legal?

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/108620-honestly-thought-we-would-see-something-like-a-tie-scout-before-this/?hl=scout

I have also talked about it there, its a good read (if i remember correctly) and it might give you a few ideas.

EDIT:

Also, it is a general consensus that it is not 24 meters long, and wookieepedia is wrong on that part.

It was hardly a consensus: that dragged on for ages.

Three crew is a lot for a ship that small.

The HWK, the Firespray and the TIE phantom, which are comparable in terms of interior space, get one. Outright shuttles and freighters like the Lambda and the Millennium Falcon only get two slots: the Outrider has to make do with one. The Decimator gets three but it's practically a mini capital ship in role.

I like your design otherwise, although I'd make a few thematic tweaks. Might be interesting to give it a competing title (or modification, I'd make them both mods) that allows it to take a free Evade action when it takes a Coordinate action.

So far we have zero pure support ships

I take it the GR-75 is excluded for being not standard legal?

Don't want. Too ugly.

1 Att is going to be it's biggest handicap. I can't imagine fielding a ship in this game that can't do anything on its own for ~20pts. It's going to have to start at academy tie prices to even show up on my radar. Start giving it shields and we're talking about comparing it to the shuttle. Shuttle is obviously getting the big ship discount and a discount for its dial. But I think if you'r literally cutting it in half (2/1/3/2) that fudging that to (1/3/3/1) isn't terrible. Even with a better dial you can't be looking north of 13 for PS2 and if you are it's new crew/sensors that are worth that and not the ship itself.

TL and focus MAYBE BR. Crew, sensors, and maybe no pilot with an EPT.

What system upgrades or imp crew slots could possibly be valuable? Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, but I'm just trying to imagine the value a generic tie scout could have. There either needs to be a new slew of upgrades, or the scout would need a new action. Maybe give it the ability to Jam?

Up to twelve jammers in epic? Not pretty.

Just figured I'd make sure this thread doesn't devolve into the 24m thing by killing it at the start.

The TIE/sr is about eight metres long, as you can see by this picture of it with the TIE bomber.

This is how it appears in Empire at War, the game that has it in, and it looks sensible, no?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the WEG RPG didn't have schematics or a picture, and thus that 24m length is just a number pulled out of the air. How do we reconcile it with the TIE/sr's depiction?

Let's make it 24m while keeping it in its current proportions.

We all agree that a cockpit window like that is kind of silly, as is this whole JumboTIE itself. Just look at it next to the TIE bomber.

Then we have just the length stretc

That's also a fairly silly looking ship, but it's a possibility for this "Lone Scout A" for those who don't want to concede the Lone Scout as described by the old RPG is wholly incompatible with the depiction of the TIE/sr.

I maintain that the Lone Scout probably has a different (although still TIEesque) design and what it shares is likely controls and the internal stuff like engines and sensor packages: it doesn't share a hull.

For the TIE/sr, however, I have little doubt is in the dimensions depicted in the first picture: it's the size of a TIE.

Maybe the large version is the one seen in the card game. It looks like it can take up morre space but is way less bulky looking. It was a limited production craft, some flets could have required very diffrent functions with there scouts so more sensors were added.

I like the idea for this ship, for named pilot abilities perhaps something to reflect some kind of electronic warfare?

Action: Target a ship within range 1-3. Remove one token from that ship (except for stress token) and roll 1 attack die. Deal any [damage] or [critical] rolled.

At the end of the activation phase remove all enemy target locks from ships at range 1-2. (possibly make this an action if too OP as a free skill, and have it activate immediately)

At the start of the combat phase reduce the pilot skill of all enemy pilots at range 1-3 by 2 to a minimum of 0.

*Granted these aren't really "scout" like abilities.

Yeah if they made the TIE Vanguard or the TIE RC Fighter they should get those rules.

Just a word of warning, people on deviant art have in mass been making fanon TIEs,.

I like the idea for this ship, for named pilot abilities perhaps something to reflect some kind of electronic warfare?

Action: Target a ship within range 1-3. Remove one token from that ship (except for stress token) and roll 1 attack die. Deal any [damage] or [critical] rolled.

At the end of the activation phase remove all enemy target locks from ships at range 1-2. (possibly make this an action if too OP as a free skill, and have it activate immediately)

At the start of the combat phase reduce the pilot skill of all enemy pilots at range 1-3 by 2 to a minimum of 0.

*Granted these aren't really "scout" like abilities.

I actually really like the idea of a scout being able to reduce enemy pilot skill levels.

But I would say that it's more relevant/applicable/fluff-supported to be during the Activation phase.

"During the Activation Phase, all players must treat the pilot skill of all enemy pilots at Range 1-3 as if they were reduced by 2 (to a minimum of 0)."

I don't think any pilot abilities so far have the "Action:" header, so that should be on a crew card imo.

Instead of removing all target locks at the end of the activation phase, what about:

"Friendly ships at Range 1 cannot be targeted for a Target Lock."

(Although this is suspiciously similar to Captain Kagi so maybe not...)

Fair enough, 1 or 2 crew slots then!

Three crew is a lot for a ship that small.

The HWK, the Firespray and the TIE phantom, which are comparable in terms of interior space, get one. Outright shuttles and freighters like the Lambda and the Millennium Falcon only get two slots: the Outrider has to make do with one. The Decimator gets three but it's practically a mini capital ship in role.

I like your design otherwise, although I'd make a few thematic tweaks. Might be interesting to give it a competing title (or modification, I'd make them both mods) that allows it to take a free Evade action when it takes a Coordinate action.

Also a good idea!

Yup.

So try this out for size:

Needs to come with an Admiral Mottie crew card: 1pt- when one of your own ships or upgrades would cause this ship to take damage, you may take 1 less.

Protects against vader and misplaced bombs!

To me that title seems so wrong. Why would it get a discount? No other ship in the game gets discounts for anything. It's almost as if you were saying that "one of your bombers can buy torpedoes, missiles and bombs for 1 point less" or giving the HWK a 1-point discount on turrets. And that it's a unique title doesn't really matter since no one would ever take more than one of these.

To me that title seems so wrong. Why would it get a discount? No other ship in the game gets discounts for anything. It's almost as if you were saying that "one of your bombers can buy torpedoes, missiles and bombs for 1 point less" or giving the HWK a 1-point discount on turrets. And that it's a unique title doesn't really matter since no one would ever take more than one of these.

Allow me to flip the question around, and it should make obvious sense why. If you can put the same crew on any other ship for the same cost, then why would you ever want to take the TIE Scout? The other crew carriers are more durable and can deal out damage.

Edit: Ironically, titles like that might be exactly what those 2 ships need to be more competitive. With the exception of Roark, no HWK or Bomber does well competitively.

As it is, how much are you really willing to pay just to take the coordinate action every round? A free action is only worth 3 points.

In the example above, I still see no point in either a system or crew slot. Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but what upgrades could possibly be of use? Maybe tactician or vader? The system slot seems useless.

I think someone (at the LFL level) should decide what this ship is - a long range or a short-range scout. If it's the former, as all the earlier material suggests, then it's a long-range scout and it should be fairly large. However, maybe all the video games (and the cross-sections book) that adopted it (without doing their homework) and made it a small ship by virtue of its representation is simply more salient.

Being an old fart, I prefer the former, but the latter would be a better fit with this game. The large ship would also have too much in-game role overlap with the Decimator.