That's your opinion, but it goes against what the common thought is.. no worries.. you don't have to play him...

As I said, I don't agree that Fel is the best.. others have better abilities.. Turr, Horn... others as well.. Fel is not the end all be all pilot.. he's good.. yes.. not the best IMO

I didn't say THE best.. I said one of the best.. and personally I find Turr's ability better than Fel.. but that is my opinion...

WHAT?! Supa Soonta is absolutely the best ship in the game, not even close and Vader is the Worst, he is FAR too expensive for a 2 attack ship.

Back on topic: The TIE-A is not awful so much as others ships can perform similar roles as well or better for less points. I still field him regularly, because he's well...Vader. Usually with Fett because they are the only two canon pilots on the Empire side. Though really Fett is more of an independent...but that's another topic.

Look at the abilities...

Fel gets a focus when he's stressed... so.. you have to stress him and you can get a free focus.. yay..

Vader.. gets 2 actions .. no stress... seriously.. WAAAAAY better than Fel..

In a battle of opinions... we won't find a winner.. but current thought is Vader is one of tye best pilots in the game.. so is Fel... it's that simple.. opinions asside..

So I had to get Vader...come on it's Vader!

I think everyone that's bought the TIE Advanced expansion has done so for the sole reason that you have get Vader, because it's Vader. I know I did.

I've only used him a few times, though. His biggest drawbacks are the price and only two attack dice. But with Engine Upgrade and Outmaneuver, he has a much better chance to turn 2 dice into 3.

And at the end of the day, IT'S VADER!

Vader is good but still quite over priced. Vader or not, I won't be buying an advanced until they improve the ship.

...make him very deadly and probably the hardest ship to get a shot on.

Vader isn't even close to being overpriced. Add on Engine Upgrade and Outmaneuver, and he is quite deadly. I like him more than Fel because he won't die because of a bad defensive roll.

Soon enough:

Vader + EU + Outmanuever + Proton Rockets

Soontir Fel + PTL + Targeting Computer

Carnor Jax + PTL

Shoving those rockets up somebodies backside will make you feel pretty good, especially if it's from behind and Jax is around.

I had a ***** of a time with Vader outmaneuver EU last time I played. Couldn't get behind anyone. Clearly I'm doing something wrong.

Start him out to the side of your flight, and have him circle around.. ccome in at the side of the opponents ships..

I basically learned Xwing by playing three XWings, hence my style is three expensive ships that pack a punch, three attack and TL and take a beating, 3 hull/2 shield and astromechs! (ala George Foreman)

I've finally worked my way into the Imperial side and have been trying to play like I learned...three ships that can punch. That doesn't work with Interceptors, exactly...

I've slowly learned that Interceptors need to "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee!" (alas Muhammed Ali) Hence they need to be mobile, dance around the enemy! Vader and Soontir are SUPERB in that role! Two actions or PTL allow them to "float like a butterfly!" Three attack or Outmaneuver/Expose/etc. and/or extra Focus allow them to "sting like a bee!"

Every build has its own character and method of fighting! They have to fight to their abilities and expose the enemy's weaknesses!

Vader and Interceptors want to fly free!

It was risky back before FFG leveled the point win margin for tournaments but in the past I used Vader solely as a swarm addition with Swarm Tactics and either 4 or 5 Tie Fighters and occasionally giving him concussion missiles. His two actions were invaluable to the swarm (especially the alpha strike) and having him survive to the end game was definitely worth putting him in the squad - especially with a swarm tactics chain: Vader w/ ST and Concussion Missiles (which will be changed to Proton Torpedoes soon), Howlrunner w/ST, 2x Black Squadrons w/ ST, 1 AP. As long as they stay range 1, they all fire at 9 because of Vader. Obviously, this could be done with Soontir Fel for less points, but I prefer to have Push The Limit on him and running wild on his own instead of using him in a swarm.

Now I'm looking forward to using him with Engine Upgrade and Outmaneuver. I can see the potential there.

edit: *proton rockets

There are many nice ways to use Vader, wave 4 brought one more: VI on him and Decoy on Echo.

Actually the Advanced is a load of osik. Yes, Vader's thematically pleasing, but in every other way he is so bad i can't even describe it.

Thanks for all your suggestions.

Personally i rock a Vader with Squad Leader and Stealth Device - Agility 4 + Barrel roll or Evade and use Squad Leader action makes him one untouchable beast. Your opponent really needs to work hard to take him down, either taking the bait and throwing a lot against him and allowing the rest of your ships to pick targets with impunity, or they ignore him and he manouvere into optimal positions. Proton Rockets are only going to make him more deadly.

Yes he's expensive but his pilot skill and ability are beyond reproach and sometimes you have to look past the base stats of the ship and look more at what its addition can do for your list. I mean nobody criticizes the HWK for its stats...

Vader is good. Slap an Engine Upgrade on him, and you have someone as slippery as Fel, without the fear of being one shot.

But also more expensive and with a worse attack.

Vader isn't even close to being overpriced. Add on Engine Upgrade and Outmaneuver, and he is quite deadly. I like him more than Fel because he won't die because of a bad defensive roll.

He costs 29 points and 37 (under this loadout) to be "quite deadly." And he still has two attacks (I get that Outmaneuver helps a little, but TWO ATTACKS).

I dunno, I'd call that overpriced.

For 37 points I'd much rather have Soontir (27) + Push (3) + Royal Guard TIE (0) + Shield (4) + Hull (3). Or swap in a stealth device and a targeting computer. Whichever.

Also, let's stop pretending like the TIE Advanced's dial is as good as the Interceptor's. It's a good dial, but I much prefer the hard 1 turns to the Advanced's 1 banks, and all green 2 turns is nuts. Obviously the additional greens are less of a necessity for Vader since he's never stressed, but still.

Also, let's stop pretending like the TIE Advanced's dial is as good as the Interceptor's. It's a good dial...

It's not even a good dial, though. No straight 1 and no turn 1 means it's weak on approach control and weak in a knife fight; for my money, it's a serious candidate for the second-worst dial in the faction.

It's all down to preferences. The Defender has forced me to get used to the "snaking" of the 1 bank. And really, the 1 bank is just fine when I have Barrel Roll and/or Boost.

As for the 2 Atk, the Advanced is playing the long game. It has the ability to stick around longer than an Interceptor. So, yes, you won't be killing TIEs in one shot, but 2 attack can do damage. Especially if you stick around for a long time.

I do believe many of the posters here are missing the "big picture!" Vader by himself is not good! HOWEVER, Vader in the builds we are talking about is an AWESOME ASSET! He has staying power, can peck at the flanks and rear, and overall be a nuisance that has to be contended with. Taking two attack a turn over several turns adds up in the end. I've seen too many interceptors one shotted to know Vader is definitely worth bringing in a build!

I do believe many of the posters here are missing the "big picture!" Vader by himself is not good! HOWEVER, Vader in the builds we are talking about is an AWESOME ASSET! He has staying power, can peck at the flanks and rear, and overall be a nuisance that has to be contended with. Taking two attack a turn over several turns adds up in the end. I've seen too many interceptors one shotted to know Vader is definitely worth bringing in a build!

I guess where we differ is in our evaluation of how much the ability to "overall be a nuisance" is worth.

Vader with engine upgrade and outmaneuver is 37 points. Compare:

• Fel (27) + Push (3) + title (0) + hull/stealth (3) + shield (4), or targeting computer, or whatever. 37 points or less.
• Echo (30) + VI (1) + ACD (4) + FCS (2). Also 37 points.
• Whisper (32) + VI (1) + ACD (4). 37 points.

Call me crazy, but those all seem at least as good as Vader at arc-dodging (if not much better). All have substantially more firepower. And all are the same or fewer points.

Vader is awesome, but the TIE Advanced is awful.

I do believe many of the posters here are missing the "big picture!" Vader by himself is not good! HOWEVER, Vader in the builds we are talking about is an AWESOME ASSET! He has staying power, can peck at the flanks and rear, and overall be a nuisance that has to be contended with. Taking two attack a turn over several turns adds up in the end. I've seen too many interceptors one shotted to know Vader is definitely worth bringing in a build!

I guess where we differ is in our evaluation of how much the ability to "overall be a nuisance" is worth.

Vader with engine upgrade and outmaneuver is 37 points. Compare:

• Fel (27) + Push (3) + title (0) + hull/stealth (3) + shield (4), or targeting computer, or whatever. 37 points or less.
• Echo (30) + VI (1) + ACD (4) + FCS (2). Also 37 points.
• Whisper (32) + VI (1) + ACD (4). 37 points.

Call me crazy, but those all seem at least as good as Vader at arc-dodging (if not much better). All have substantially more firepower. And all are the same or fewer points.

Vader is awesome, but the TIE Advanced is awful.

But as has been stated those are singular ships that while good or even great on their own don't have the same overall boost to a list that Vader can offer.

Ultimately i'm not saying everyone should love using him in their lists, simply to evaluate the pilot card for what it is.

But as has been stated those are singular ships that while good or even great on their own don't have the same overall boost to a list that Vader can offer.

Ultimately i'm not saying everyone should love using him in their lists, simply to evaluate the pilot card for what it is.

I guess I don't understand the point...Vader, as a pilot, is unfortunately only usable in the Advanced. Of course his ability is amazing - the best in the game, no question. But since you're stuck using him in the Advanced...

My point was that whatever role you're using Vader (intheTIEAdvanced) for, there are better/cheaper options (in my opinion). You want a dodgy flanker? OK, take Fel, or Echo, or Whisper. You want survivability? OK, take three Academies or a couple of bombers.

I use him with Fel! I don't like Phantoms for my style of play, they are "glass hammers" in my option. It really comes down to a "style of play" not just points spent. He works in mine, Phantoms work for others! Hence, another reason this game is fun and lasts! There is no one "perfect build to kill them all!"

But as has been stated those are singular ships that while good or even great on their own don't have the same overall boost to a list that Vader can offer.

Ultimately i'm not saying everyone should love using him in their lists, simply to evaluate the pilot card for what it is.

I guess I don't understand the point...Vader, as a pilot, is unfortunately only usable in the Advanced. Of course his ability is amazing - the best in the game, no question. But since you're stuck using him in the Advanced...

My point was that whatever role you're using Vader (intheTIEAdvanced) for, there are better/cheaper options (in my opinion). You want a dodgy flanker? OK, take Fel, or Echo, or Whisper. You want survivability? OK, take three Academies or a couple of bombers.

Yes! If Vader was in a Defender or Interceptor he would be AMAZING, but he's not. He's in the possibly the worst ship in the game.