Felismachina: Honestly, trying to make a joke out of a horrible situation, especially as a professional soldier who has to live with stuff like that every day, is very, very much in character and plausible. It happens IRL all the time. It's peoples' way of dealing with trauma and horrible things, so they won't affect them. I.e., it's a defense mechanism. If you want your players to go for fear, poor morale etc., perhaps a "less is more" approach is better. Dim the lights a bit, speak a bit quieter, so they have to listen and leave the grisly, grisly details unspoken. Just hint at them, and let their imaginations do the rest.

Well jokes are ok, being silly is not. It's not only what does person say , it is also tone of his voice, laugh and all that. I just gave a few examples but they act like that almost entire session. Anyway after next session i give update how did it work. Maybe after our talk they will behave or if not then i just will go looking for another group.

I'm glad you mentioned that here, and not on the DW forum, because while I see immersion as a problem in many games, both ones I play/run, and the ones this forum supports, at least Guardsmen can act like "Inglorious Bastards"; IMO Space Marines CANNOT have that degree of personality. Space Wolves might rock my boat, in that regard, but so many Space Marines are raised, trained, and indoctrinated to act without such behavioral mannerisms. I would actually get mad if my Space Marines whistled at women, spoke in slang, used various sorts of dialogue, and whatnot. True, it would be more me trying to shoehorn my own impression of Astartes on my friends, possibly at the expense of their having fun, but so many of them (my friends) do just act silly, and while I don't feel myself as a Spess Mahreen fanboy, per say, I want the ones in my game to act like the average Space Marine (probably read Ultramarine) should, with liberties given for those who knowingly act different, like Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and a few others. Most don't have a sense of humor.

Done ranting wrongly. Guardsmen? Knock yourself out, and maybe the Commissar, too; you'll get away with more inglorious shenanigans.

You cant expect your players to act like michael fassbender and tom hanks combined, man. Its reeaally hard to act very peculiar kind of characters as psykers or techpriests. So im really glad when someone plays ANYONE they imagine. The more louder and emotional the character is the better, because its easier. Usually when someone decides to play a "mysterious wizard" type character he doesnt talk and do anything at all, because hes so terrified of saying something casual and not so much epic, like "can i have that apple, please?". Lower your expectations man and just have fun out there. Youre not building second Hollywood.

You cant expect your players to act like michael fassbender and tom hanks combined, man. Its reeaally hard to act very peculiar kind of characters as psykers or techpriests. So im really glad when someone plays ANYONE they imagine. The more louder and emotional the character is the better, because its easier. Usually when someone decides to play a "mysterious wizard" type character he doesnt talk and do anything at all, because hes so terrified of saying something casual and not so much epic, like "can i have that apple, please?". Lower your expectations man and just have fun out there. Youre not building second Hollywood.

I can see that, and in a number of ways, I agree, but if you are going to play something, such as a Space Marine, I, at least want it to seem more like you are playing a Space Marine, as they are portrayed in the various books, games, et al, rather than "hillbilly dumbass in power armor, with extra bits attached to your insides", which is something my friends are more apt to do. Sometimes they play irresponsibly, and one would wonder how the character that they are playing has progressed so far, without the grimdark safeguards of the verse having killed them. If you are going to play "40k Space Marine", I'd rather not see "Starcraft Space Marine." Of course, it's all a matter of personal preferences, and mine can be a bit traditional. I play Wizards in almost everything I play, and I can play the terrified, bumbling Alfred Montbank, the sinister, power-hungry MOST WIZARDS, the reserved, but willing to educate Merlin-types, and a number of things in between. I'll even be goofy, like I am, but I try to make it fit with the setting, and the game being played. If you know already HOW you want to behave, then mayb choose a character type that such behavior DOES fit with. 40k is grimdark, and I would appreciate it if my friends playing would act like that mattered to them; as it is, they'd rather not, and we agreed not to play 40k, even RT, where I WOULD permit quite a bit of shenanigans. But yeah, I'd rather a believable character than a player acting like themselves, while CLAIMING to be what they are playing. And if I'm not GMing, I'll whine a bit at first, and if the player in question, and the GM, would rather I stop that, than fix the "issue", I can be quiet, just fine.

Thanks for reading that block; I rambled a bit more than I had initially planned.

playing a Space Marine, as they are portrayed in the various books, games, et al, rather than "hillbilly dumbass in power armor, with extra bits attached to your insides", which is something my friends are more apt to do. Sometimes they play irresponsibly, and one would wonder how the character that they are playing has progressed so far, without the grimdark safeguards of the verse having killed them. If you are going to play "40k Space Marine",

Dude, just tell them they sound like Indrick Boreale.

Or worse,

I would say put them in a situation of no hope, a trench that has been shelled killing most of the men around them , Hostile drop troopers jump into the lines behind them cutting off retreat, and now a wave of very angry orks, heretics, are charging across the battle field to there trench. Do not be scared to kill your players, they prat about on the battle field, punish them for it, and when they moan out of character , just tell them " I understand you want to have fun and a laugh, but when you do dumb stuff on the battle field, this sort of things happen.

Also do not be scared to single out the main trouble maker a little more then normal, if they are starting bar fights and mouthing off to the commissar just make an example.

Player A starts a bar fight forcing the party to join in and help. Player A is throne into a holding cell pending trial, While in the holding sell with no armour or gear, a group of heavily armed men bribe the MP on duty, and gain access to the cell and begin to beat the character silly with shock batons, clubs ect. If the player is reduced to 0 fatigue points the player is then hanged in his cell ( forcing him or her to use a fate point or just die) Mean while the other players might be showering, and a similar group enters the shower, with knifes, clubs and body armour, and beats the ever loving crap out of them, but does not kill them.

Just give more consequences for there actions maybe even strip them of all there gear and send them to a penal regiment where they get a prison uniform and a laslock and told to charge an oncoming ork WAARRGH!.

I mean the group i was apart of we always had a laugh in game, and took it semi seriously, till we were put in situations where we had to think" right if we **** about we are screwed".

Or you could just boot the trouble maker who is the serious problem out, might break up the group but at the end of the day, from the sounds of it, it might not last anyway.

Or you could ask a Experienced player on the forum to drop into the group with and see if they can help sort them out.

Hiyas!

If your players are OK with it - you don't want to hurt sensibilities here, or remind people of past history if it hits too close to home -, I've always found that the horror's of war can also be portrayed by what's happening as "collateral damage" (indirectly) around the PCs. Blasted towns full of zombie-like refugees, victims of shelling (esp. young (gasp) civillians), orphans looking for a miracle, etc. Without being too graphic about it just check the news or any good doc about war in the global scale ( cough cough the History Channel cough ). You'll find ideas a-plenty to portray such horrors. If they still laugh at that, then, you'll know at least you have a bunch of syckos as friends!

HtH

L

A little update.

It looks like our little talk was not pointless. Players tried to be more serious and while the still do jokes it's not so silly. Maybe part of it that one of commissars executed players comrades so they now know they can't do what they want because people will die (and lost some squad firepower) They didn't get mission assigment gear due to poor logistics roll (having 5% chance is not much) and after asking for another gear they were told that their request will get answer after 6 months Mission is going quite well and a few insanity points later due to witnessing dead soldiers, their comrades executed,dark eldar butchering imperial squad they started to behave Thank you all for ideas , input and suggestions.

You cant expect your players to act like michael fassbender and tom hanks combined, man. Its reeaally hard to act very peculiar kind of characters as psykers or techpriests. So im really glad when someone plays ANYONE they imagine. The more louder and emotional the character is the better, because its easier. Usually when someone decides to play a "mysterious wizard" type character he doesnt talk and do anything at all, because hes so terrified of saying something casual and not so much epic, like "can i have that apple, please?". Lower your expectations man and just have fun out there. Youre not building second Hollywood.

I can see that, and in a number of ways, I agree, but if you are going to play something, such as a Space Marine, I, at least want it to seem more like you are playing a Space Marine, as they are portrayed in the various books, games, et al, rather than "hillbilly dumbass in power armor, with extra bits attached to your insides", which is something my friends are more apt to do. Sometimes they play irresponsibly, and one would wonder how the character that they are playing has progressed so far, without the grimdark safeguards of the verse having killed them. If you are going to play "40k Space Marine", I'd rather not see "Starcraft Space Marine." Of course, it's all a matter of personal preferences, and mine can be a bit traditional. I play Wizards in almost everything I play, and I can play the terrified, bumbling Alfred Montbank, the sinister, power-hungry MOST WIZARDS, the reserved, but willing to educate Merlin-types, and a number of things in between. I'll even be goofy, like I am, but I try to make it fit with the setting, and the game being played. If you know already HOW you want to behave, then mayb choose a character type that such behavior DOES fit with. 40k is grimdark, and I would appreciate it if my friends playing would act like that mattered to them; as it is, they'd rather not, and we agreed not to play 40k, even RT, where I WOULD permit quite a bit of shenanigans. But yeah, I'd rather a believable character than a player acting like themselves, while CLAIMING to be what they are playing. And if I'm not GMing, I'll whine a bit at first, and if the player in question, and the GM, would rather I stop that, than fix the "issue", I can be quiet, just fine.

Thanks for reading that block; I rambled a bit more than I had initially planned.

No problem, I like to read how others feel about coping with their players.

Problem is that not everyone has a concept of true wh40k space marine in their minds. Some may have it but they lack in acting talents. Others don't care about acting and just want to have fun. It's not good to expect players to contribute to the game as equally as GM. After all most people treat RPG gaming as a saturday night entertainment first, acting contest second.

When I think about how you can drag players into your world and encourage them to act a little I come out with rewards for decent roleplaying (Fate points, bonus xp, "small things that matter" during next session), questions like "how does your character react to seeing grass grow everywhere" (to forge worlder who came to agri planet first time in his life) and discussions that may offsping from them, using features I mentioned above and many other things.

Agreed. Of course, that;s among the reasons why my friends and I don't play 40k games; they make me tend to want to be a space-Nazi, which might fit the setting, but I DO want them to have fun, and that format of acting just isn't really their cup of tea. Thus D&D, Marvel Universe, and Pathfinder fill the game slots; I don't care how they act there, for the most part, and feel less inclined to "punish" them for not playing up to MY expectations. And, if they cock off to the king, I can throw them in jail, rather than feel "would they just have been shot?" Many of those characters are more vanilla to me, and open to a certain amount of personal improvisation. When I got to be a Grey Knight in 40k Homebrew, I didn't even think about being funny, saying smart-ass jokes, or that stuff, since I DO like acting my characters out, and a smarmy Grey Knight seems dumb. To their credit, most of the other players, an Ultramarine Sergeant/Apothecary, Devastator, and an Inquisitor's sniper-specialist all played rather seriously, too; the Dev got smart a bit, but he was our "actually been in the Marines" member, so we agreed with him that a bit did fit.

My best advice: put them in dire danger, make them lose limbs and burn fate points. Also just talking to the players helps.

I had one player model her character after flava flav but after a talk she was able to take it seriously. Also she almost lost her arm ...

Well i am still using lots of advice i read here. On last session one of my players yet again started to act like a clown. They were all in void/biohazard suits in small dropship heading to toxic planet. Only squad was present so no commisar neaby and that guy decided to take a **** in corner. Well ok, you gonna drop the viodsuit and go take a dump, sure. After that i made another player make a really hard test to properly seal voidsuit. He failed and our very funny player burned his fate point. I think that will teach him not to act like moron next time. Still despite some stupid jokes sometimes all is working well. Any other advice how to discipline players in non lethal way?

Official reprimands, gear confications, floggings and transfers to penal battalions all work non-lethally to punish characters.

That said if your players are honestly too sensitive to suffer through the horrible unfairness of life in 40k then they probably shouldn`t be playing OW, the grittiest of the FFG 40k lines.

Also if you`re too worried about falling out with your firends to hurt their characters, maybe you shouldn`t be the one controlling the NPCs shooting at them.

There's a difference between "They get in a fight, as the plot demands, and in the course of said fight they get hurt." and "I hurt them because I feel that their actions are inappropriate." When I GM, I'm not overly worried about the first one, since in my group we've established that combat should be dangerous. I try not to overwhelm them and TPKing them, but they end up near Death regularly. The second one is essentially saying "My fun and vision for the game are more important than that of the others." and will eventually lead to the players walking away from an "******* GM".

If you've talked with the group and you've all agreed that you wanna play this game straight and serious (which is not the only way this game could go) then you're fully justified in meting out punishments.
If you have agreed that it's okay, as long as they don't overdo it, then find a way to communicate that. Figure out, together, where the limits are, what's funny for everyone and what ruins your fun.
If, however, you haven't agreed on either one yet, then you need to sit down and talk it out.
What do you what from this game? What do your players want? What genre are you playing?
Maybe the Same Page Tool can help you there: http://bankuei.wordpress.com/2010/03/27/the-same-page-tool/

Simply punishing their characters because the players are having fun is, in my opinion (and borne out by the experiences of various others), a horrible way to GM and a fast ticket to killing the group and getting labeled a bad GM.

Edit: Seriously? Empty space in a posterior is censored?

I'm just saying war is awfully cruel and the 40k universe is horrendously tough at the best of times. If you as a GM aren't willing to be the guiding force behind the horror, unfairness and senseless tragedy of war then maybe running a RPG about expendable soldiers in the grimdark isn't for you.

I'm not saying don't play OW, I'm saying you shoud make sure everyone involved knows what OW is before your players get upset by their weak squishy characters:

a) getting cut down in a hail of friendly fire when they don't follow orders and wander into a artillery bombardment.

b) getting punished for breaking military law.

c) receiving nigh-suicidal orders.

d) not getting the credit for their actions.

I am in a OW game where we have lots of fun, but the fun is that of desperate men trying to do impossible things who know they are already utterly f-ed. Not wandering off mission willy-nilly and picking fights.

After we talked last time i think everybody understands but still they need a reminder sometimes when they act too much like players. After all for us it's roleplaying game. Combat is not and never was a problem, sometimes it's hard sometimes they get lucky and win in one round with lucky grenade throw (with rightous fury which i treat like instakill on non-boss enemies) and sometimes people will get hurt (losing arm, comrade will die etc.) The only problem is they just like to see where are the limits, if i let them do something like ignoring orders, act like they can't be killed or just let them do something like shitting in the corner cause they can they will do it again. It's not about taking all the fun. I am fair but strict GM. If you act like person who has brain and like a character you are playing (even if it's a bad choice or you gonna get hurt) i won't punish you but if you start acting like moron then you probably gonna die.

Good to see that you came around with your players.

I read most of the posts in the thread, and like some of the ideas, but I haven't seen one thing. Maiming and punishing players won't work if they don't care. If you have a player that is anoying you try a different aproach, first make him like his character, let him play, endure it.

Than as a warning, make something happen that he looses something of value due to his behaviour, for example that shiny new plasma gun he just got on the last session, what's that you say? he got into a brawl again? oh, a commisar had enough and digs thru his belongings to find some things to make up for an execution, well.. no illegal goods but an unauthorised plasma gun? that is flogging and back to the basic kit buddy, and don't try to get it back, he will get searches for another month or so on daily basis. Now you have a player that lost something of value, and he knows it was his own fault.

It should help, if not, wait for the characters to get some experience, there is nothing worst than loosing a 5-7k exp character and having to start from scratch, and no, don't let them make a new one with the same amount of exp, sorry friend, you are not a veteran, you just came in from reserves. This won't drag a whole group down so much as in other RPGs, but the guy will feel that he is not as good as the rest, maybe next time he will be more cautious.

Warning: this may end up in some RL fights, make sure that loosing an equipment or dying is justified, and not something that you set up just for the guy/gal.

So we have a stick, but don't forget the carrot, reward players with rewards for good roleplaying. "I'm really impressed how you enacted that talk with the commisar, that saved lives of the whole squad, you can take [peer (1) Commisariat] for that". Or just give a fate point or bonus exp, doesn't need to be much, 100 or 150 will do nice.

Trench foot and dysentery.

And of course, the Clap.

It ain't war without the Clap.

i also hade this problem. Thats when you bring in the redeption battalion. Sorta like a penal battalion, just not permant.

Give the a low logistic rating, strip theam of some of theire equipment (like food) and send theam on dangours mission and maby just maby the will be given some food