Ok so this must seem like a really dumb question, but are expendables worth it? Missiles/torpedoes?

To me they seem to cost a lot of points, they don't give you a lot of extra attack dice compared to say, a standard X-wing attack, plus you have to expend a target lock to fire them when you could be focusing. And finally, most obviously, you only use them once.

I think this is something about the game I don't understand, can somebody help me?

I find they are not worth it without a house rule:

You get to benefit from the target lock on the attack roll.

Since homing missiles get this anyway, their benefit is that they work all round, regardless of firing arc.

Missile/torps are not good unless they have a specific ability like Assault Missiles or Flechette Torps.

"That's the beauty of the alphabet, it gives you twenty-six plans to choose from..."-Fi Skirata

Against fighters no against big ships yes, munitions failsafe helps alot but you have to sink points into it so you want something big to blow up.

They can certainly be made more reliable IE Captain Jonus, Munitions Failsafe. And the designers appear to understand the issues players have. The effect of assault missiles make then kind of a tossup; a great bonus to an attack that can be unreliable if left unmodified. Flechette Torpedoes can be a nice points filler, Ion pulse Missiles are definitely helpful if your ship can't equip a cannon, and the upcoming Proton Rockets will be quite potent on high agility ships and a nice, cheaper alternative on 2 agility craft like Z95s or TIE Bombers.

Like most things X-Wing its a case by case matter,

but I have used Cluster Missiles on Cracken to great effect (grant two actions as per his ability) plus munition failsafe means if I miss against those perky SD Interceptors or cloaked Phantoms then I get to try it again.

Blount with Assault Missiles or Ion Pulse Missile is good too.

But this really all depends on how you build your like and its end goal.

Hope it helps.

Happy Hunting!

If you know your facing a swarm assault missiles are great anything else they are a waste, ion torps are also highly situational.

But a good blaster like the HLC provides consistent fire power that is worth its points.

Torpedoes were always meant for killing cap ships because they ignore shields.

They don't ignore shields in X-wing do they though? That'd be a reason to take them against TIE Defenders for sure!

In the board game no, in the computer game and fiction they do.

Deflector shields can stop energy but not physical impacts which is why they don't want to take the star destroyer into the asteroid field in empire, in fact you see the result of an asteroid hitting one ships bridge.

Obviously for the miniature game you can't have them ignore shields all people would do is take missile boats and ignore the tie fighter.

I'd ask the mathwingers if they're worth it.

I like to use them, but they certainly are tricky. I've learned the hard way that you really don't want to fire one unless you have a focus token in addition to the obligatory target lock, or you're in the swell company of a fellow like Capt. Jonus. Having both the target lock and the focus can be problematic given that under normal circumstances you can't target lock until you're within range 3, and you can't fire them if you're inside range 1. If you get the TL on one turn, by the time you can get the focus, your opponent should try to have the targets either too close or too far.

By the time you've gotten all these mechanics sorted out in your favor, you've really built your whole tactics around delivering the missiles, while you could have been doing (and thinking about) other things.

So, they're probably not worth it.

But it's so much fun to fire them off to good effect.

And, there are combinations to make them work. Jonus and people who give away actions and/or focus tokens and/or target locks are somewhat of a must in order to successfully and effectively run ordnance.

Nope. Between the cost and the general difficulty of making the attack, they're not really worthwhile. If you want to deliver long-range damage, the Heavy Laser Cannon is the place to look.

Fantasy Flight seems to be getting better at designing expendable munitions. Many of the newer missiles don't require spending a token to fire the missile, which means you still have that token available during the attack. And the flechette torpedo, for instance, has an effect even if you miss. Those things mitigate the biggest drawbacks to expendable munitions.

I do wish missiles and torpedoes did more damage, however. Thematically, a missile ought to one-shot a fighter, and do a reasonable amount of damage to a bigger ship. That's what should make them so very attractive on low-attack-dice fighters.

The proton Torpedo actually almost works. On a Tie Bomber against (say) a Falcon, at Range 3, the Tie bomber gets 4 dice against the Falcon's 1 die, instead of 2 dice against the Falcon's 2 dice. Being able to flip an eyeball into a crit makes it a bit easier to actually do damage, but that doesn't always help much. A player who rolls 3 hits and a blank won't find themselves thrilled with the Torpedo's special ability!

A better version might be "After rolling attack dice, you may do one of the following: change a (eyeball) into a (closed explosion symbol), or change 1 (closed explosion symbol) into a (open eyeball symbol), or reroll 1 die." That would reward a good roll, and help make up for the expenditure of target lock.

Seems like they've missed a trick here then? One of the big bonuses (according to the fluff) of being in a rebel ship was the ability to fire missiles/torpedoes.

So their idea that Z-95's would be cheap missile barges was wrong? they are to swarm?

Seems like they've missed a trick here then? One of the big bonuses (according to the fluff) of being in a rebel ship was the ability to fire missiles/torpedoes.

So their idea that Z-95's would be cheap missile barges was wrong? they are to swarm?

Looking at the Regionals thread, it looks like Z-95 are being used more as filler than a swarm ship or a missile carrier. One or a small number of more expensive ships plus some Zs.

Massed missiles can work. The real problem is getting the TL and the correct range, which is why I like the shorter ranged ordinance. Clusters are a real killer vs low Ag ships and focus firing will strip tokens off like nothing else. The real problem is the expense. It's very tough for me to justify spending extra points on a 2 attack die ship. Yes there are plenty of 3 attack dice ships that can take ord (Defender, Bounty Hunter, Falcon) but those ships are already too pricey as is. The HLC is really nice, it's reusable missiles! But at 7 points that ship becomes the feature of your list so spend wisely.

Torpedoes other than Flechettes don't work at all. IMO, if you get hit with one, that should be game over right there.

APT on an X-wing with Engine Upgrade and a Focus will one-shot almost any non-large ship. The problem is getting the action efficiency to pull it off...

Vader with Concussion Missiles has worked for me every time I used them - two actions = focus/tl and turn a blank to a hit. They add a great punch to a swarm's alpha strikes. Recently, I used a scimitar bomber with 1x Assault Missiles and Munitions Failsafe and had a black squadron tie with squad leader to give the extra action. Out of 6 matches, 4 were launched successfully and 1 wiffed only to be wasted since the bomber was dealt with immediately after, while the other match I didn't need to use it at all. To me, that's an overall worthy addition to the list.

How does engine upgrade help a torpedo?

Also for action efficiency just take push-the-limit. I almost never take ordnance without push the limit.

APT on an X-wing with Engine Upgrade and a Focus will one-shot almost any non-large ship. The problem is getting the action efficiency to pull it off...

Are missiles worth it.

Yes and no. They take a bit of using to get right, but one thing to understand is that their bonuses are ofte subtle (ish).

• Take concussion missiles as an example, firing at long range (because you're going to pop missiles as soon as you have a target).
• An attack with 2 attack dice versus 3 defence dice (a generic 2-agility target +1 die for range) is probably not going to score.
• Now 4 Attack dice is better than 2 attack dice (which most missile platforms - Z-95s, Bombers, Advanceds, YT-1300s, A-wings -have).
• 4 dice versus 3 dice is clearly a better place to be in
• However, because the rules for bonus dice only apply to primary weapon attacks, it's actually 4 dice versus 2 dice.
• Plus, you get the 'free hit' from concussion missiles - every missile has a special rule; a free hit for concussions, a free focus-to-crit for protons, a stress token for flechettes, a second attack for clusters, etc, etc.
• You have pretty good odds of landing a couple of points of damage.
• Concentrating two or three missiles should pulverize a ship in the opening salvo, by expending about half that ship's cost in ordnance.
• Profit

Now of course it doesn't always work that way in practice. Biggs, Kagi, Munitions failure crits, and the generally lower dogfighting ability of missile carriers once they've shot their bolt means that it's not as easy a choice as you might imagine.

Certainly, I don't think they're worth their cost on X-wings, B-wings and Defenders - going from 3 attack dice to four isn't as impressive as two attack dice to four. On TIE Bombers, Z-95s, and similar cheap ordnance plaforms they're more useful

On defenders you take HLC four dice that don't grant an extra evade at range 3 is lethal on a ship with a white k turn.

In epic games proton rockets will be good load up the defender as a heavy fighter bomber, they'll tear large ships appart.

If you're taking proton rockets, you might as well put them on a TIE advanced - much cheaper, pretty much as tough and has the same firepower for its 'bombing run' - admittedly it has less afterwards.

I think the Advanced will probably benefit most from rockets of any ship.