Like maybe upgrades to the TIE/Adv?

I wish I could like this more than once!

I'm expecting Rebel Aces to get their debut, with Wave 5 as a longshot.

I'd also expect that Imperial Huge ships get announced. Didn't wasn't it last year at GenCon that they announced the Transport and Tantive?

The following appears in the lates epic tournament rules document:

Note: Any new product released at Gen Con 2014 will not be legal for the

2014 North American Championship or Escalation tournament

It is under the heading "Legal Products" on the last page. There is no corresponding sentence in the Standard Tournament rules.

Just saying....

Standard Tournament Rules page 4, "In North America, products are legal upon their release."

Hence, why the statement isn't there...

If it applies to Rebel Ces, hy include it in the epic play rules, but not the normal rules?

It does appear in the standard tournament rules, on page 4 under "Legal Products". Perhaps you were looking at an older copy that your browser cached?

I'm looking at version 2.11 updated 7/16/2014. I do not see it in the standard rule set.

In the Epic rule set, also released today, it specifically mentions releases at GenCon 2014. Hence the discussion.

OK I stand corrected, but now it gets weirder. I'm looking at Version 2.1, also updated 4/16/2014, which I downloaded yesterday. So sometime between when I downloaded mine and when you downloaded yours, they posted an update that removed that sentence from the standard rules. As far as I can tell that is the only difference between the two documents. So however unlikely it may be, perhaps there is some substance to the speculation.

It is just clarification. Stuff released early at Gencon are not "released". Much like the Imdaar Alpha prizes.

For safety's sake if nothing else, I wouldn't hold your breath.

Oh I'm not gonna hold my breath, I just think that the placement of the rule is interesting. If it's just rebel aces, why put it in the Epic rule set? And if it's just Epic, why does it specifically ban it for the North American Championships? That to me points to an Epic release with upgrades available for standard play, just like every other Epic ship so far. Now while I completely agree that zero hype or run-up is definitely uncharacteristic of FFG, I would also say that they love GenCon and that anything is possible.

"Why isn't it in the standard rules" is a good question, but I think an error is a way more likely reason than a cold release. Since neither the North American Tournament nor the Escalation tournament allow Epic play (afaik), there's actually no reason for the disclaimer to appear in the Epic rules at all--unless it was supposed to appear in both of the updated rules documents as a blanket statement, and accidentally got left out of the standard tourney rules.

Unless there are standard upgrade cards in the Epic release...

Nope, that was my point: if the new twelve-foot Star Destroyer "mini" comes with the gamebreakingly-awesome Emperor's Royal Guard crew upgrade, the standard tournament rules (currently) don't actually prohibit me from adding it to my Firespray build for Nationals.

For safety's sake if nothing else, I wouldn't hold your breath.

Oh I'm not gonna hold my breath, I just think that the placement of the rule is interesting. If it's just rebel aces, why put it in the Epic rule set? And if it's just Epic, why does it specifically ban it for the North American Championships? That to me points to an Epic release with upgrades available for standard play, just like every other Epic ship so far. Now while I completely agree that zero hype or run-up is definitely uncharacteristic of FFG, I would also say that they love GenCon and that anything is possible.

"Why isn't it in the standard rules" is a good question, but I think an error is a way more likely reason than a cold release. Since neither the North American Tournament nor the Escalation tournament allow Epic play (afaik), there's actually no reason for the disclaimer to appear in the Epic rules at all--unless it was supposed to appear in both of the updated rules documents as a blanket statement, and accidentally got left out of the standard tourney rules.

Unless there are standard upgrade cards in the Epic release...

Nope, that was my point: if the new twelve-foot Star Destroyer "mini" comes with the gamebreakingly-awesome Emperor's Royal Guard crew upgrade, the standard tournament rules (currently) don't actually prohibit me from adding it to my Firespray build for Nationals.

So you're saying that even though the Epic rules say specifically that it isn't legal, because the standard rules don't say it, it would in fact be legal? Interesting. I guess I have to agree with that on the level that it simply isn't in the standard rules. But it says specifically "North American Championships" in the Epic rule set. Is there a North American Epic Championship? On FFG's page for championships at GenCon it only lists the standard one so I'd be inclined to say "no" but I may be wrong. If there is a North American Epic Championship then I can see it being just the rebel aces and the rule being where it is in order to ban the new crew cards from epic play. However, without a tournament that really doesn't jive. Why restrict something for no reason?

Why restrict something for no reason?

I'm thinking that was an editing issue. I'd not be surprised to find out that the paragraph in the Epic rules was supposed to be in the Tournament rules.

Because as you point out there is no North American Epic Championship that I know of, so no reason to exclude stuff released at Gencon from it.

[Nope, that was my point: if the new twelve-foot Star Destroyer "mini" comes with the gamebreakingly-awesome Emperor's Royal Guard crew upgrade, the standard tournament rules (currently) don't actually prohibit me from adding it to my Firespray build for Nationals.

And it is mysteriously added! But yeah I agree it is most likely just a copy error. But what if it's not...

I think a few people are letting their imagination run away here..

This new ruling comes in a new update for the FAQ..and tourney rules release.. happens to be just befor GENCON...

Like others have mentioned, only wave 5 is a real possibility here.. and not a very good possibility...

Chill out and don't get worked into a lather over this..

all this.. but it could be.. nonsense is rather childish.. and obnoxiously redundant.

I'm having Peewee Herman flashbacks.... I know you are but what am I?

But what if it's not...

2 possibilities.

1) They had an editing error and the line about products released at GenCon not being legal went into the Epic rules and not the Tournament rules by mistake.

2) They are going to release a product they haven't announced, or even hinted at, don't have on their upcoming page, at GenCon, and have decided to make a point of letting everyone know that this product won't be legal in a tournament that isn't even happening.

If you consider Occam's Razor, the answer seems pretty clear.

I think a few people are letting their imagination run away here..

This new ruling comes in a new update for the FAQ..and tourney rules release.. happens to be just befor GENCON...

Like others have mentioned, only wave 5 is a real possibility here.. and not a very good possibility...

Chill out and don't get worked into a lather over this..

all this.. but it could be.. nonsense is rather childish.. and obnoxiously redundant.

I'm having Peewee Herman flashbacks.... I know you are but what am I?

wow. that was an amazing contribution. thank you.

About as amazing as all these.. but it could be posts...

Srsly

But what if it's not...

2 possibilities.

1) They had an editing error and the line about products released at GenCon not being legal went into the Epic rules and not the Tournament rules by mistake.

2) They are going to release a product they haven't announced, or even hinted at, don't have on their upcoming page, at GenCon, and have decided to make a point of letting everyone know that this product won't be legal in a tournament that isn't even happening.

If you consider Occam's Razor, the answer seems pretty clear.

All reasonable points that I agree with. But, wouldn't #2 be more fun?

About as amazing as all these.. but it could be posts...

Srsly

there are other threads friend.

About as amazing as all these.. but it could be posts...

Srsly

there are other threads friend.

There are.. I just thought it incredibly amusing that this one made it beyond one page... and it was amusing that a few are, basically, just saying.. but it could be...

After the first one, it just becomes nauseous repitition... especially in the face of logical reponses to the contrary...

About as amazing as all these.. but it could be posts...

Srsly

there are other threads friend.

There are.. I just thought it incredibly amusing that this one made it beyond one page... and it was amusing that a few are, basically, just saying.. but it could be...

After the first one, it just becomes nauseous repitition... especially in the face of logical reponses to the contrary...

Which is completely unlike the posts that you keep making. I get it. I bow to your superiority complex. Have a nice day.

Lol.. yeah that's what it is...

I made 2 posts here.. now a third...

Don't go away mad.. just go away... lol

Lol.. yeah that's what it is...

I made 2 posts here.. now a third...

Don't go away mad.. just go away... lol

I think that making someone laugh is the best way to start a friendship. I'm sure that you and me will be best buds.

And because we're on our way to becoming besties, I'm sure you won;t mind me pointing out that was in fact your fourth post in this thread. But hey, Fly Casual, right?

I wouldn't not be a bit surprised if they have wave 5 available on the first day for a very limited run. While standing in the incredibly long FFG line last year (the only booth with a line the entire time) I talked with one of the FFG guys and he said that they shipped in a limited supply of wave 3 ships to be available just for Gen-con. They did the same for several LotR LCG sets. This was months before they hit retail shelves.

I wouldn't not be a bit surprised if they have wave 5 available on the first day for a very limited run. While standing in the incredibly long FFG line last year (the only booth with a line the entire time) I talked with one of the FFG guys and he said that they shipped in a limited supply of wave 3 ships to be available just for Gen-con. They did the same for several LotR LCG sets. This was months before they hit retail shelves.

To be accurate, it was not "months" between Wave 3 at GenCon and general release last year. It was one month. Wave 3 was available at retailers in the US the week of 9/14/13. Very likely to be similar for Rebel Aces this year.

Jim

But if wave 5 is made available for early release, even in a limited run, at GenCon, they'd have to realize it would result in informal publication of all the included upgrades, pilot abilities, etc. I don't see FFG wanting to release new product spoilers via others without doing their own announcement. And I don't see that announcement coming during GenCon because it would distract from or at least clutter their opportunity to make a new announcement on huge ships or something down the line. At best they'll have the wave 5 ships there in the same way they had the alternate paint X-wing, transport, and corvette on display but none of the cards. Spoiling the miniatures themselves is one thing. Spoiling all the included materials without an official introduction or one that gets quickly steamrolled by the announcement of X product makes no sense. Remember how much noise the announcement of huge ships made? That was just the concept and later the models.

I will say I hope the Rebel Aces miniatures are there because I found the paint job on the A-wing real lackluster looking in the preview:

It looked good in all the distance shots for some reason, almost like it's gray there but left unpainted white above. Just looks a little cheap. If you look at the article, the A-wing and B-wings appear gray in the card fan shot. But in the close ups, they both appear white, B-wing too.

Lol.. yeah that's what it is...

I made 2 posts here.. now a third...

Don't go away mad.. just go away... lol

I think that making someone laugh is the best way to start a friendship. I'm sure that you and me will be best buds.

And because we're on our way to becoming besties, I'm sure you won;t mind me pointing out that was in fact your fourth post in this thread. But hey, Fly Casual, right?

I can admit when I'm wrong... and obviously miscounted.. lol...

Laughter is a fine thing....

But if wave 5 is made available for early release, even in a limited run, at GenCon, they'd have to realize it would result in informal publication of all the included upgrades, pilot abilities, etc. I don't see FFG wanting to release new product spoilers via others without doing their own announcement. And I don't see that announcement coming during GenCon because it would distract from or at least clutter their opportunity to make a new announcement on huge ships or something down the line. At best they'll have the wave 5 ships there in the same way they had the alternate paint X-wing, transport, and corvette on display but none of the cards. Spoiling the miniatures themselves is one thing. Spoiling all the included materials without an official introduction or one that gets quickly steamrolled by the announcement of X product makes no sense. Remember how much noise the announcement of huge ships made? That was just the concept and later the models.

I will say I hope the Rebel Aces miniatures are there because I found the paint job on the A-wing real lackluster looking in the preview:

It looked good in all the distance shots for some reason, almost like it's gray there but left unpainted white above. Just looks a little cheap. If you look at the article, the A-wing and B-wings appear gray in the card fan shot. But in the close ups, they both appear white, B-wing too.

It looks.. prototype clean.. fresh off the rack.. a good wash should give it some 'used' look..