I guess this is just in time to have a ship with this baseline with the yt-2400. The new f.a.q. has a diagram. Basically they dont get to roll quite as far anymore.

Another interesting tidbit in there is that they have decided that a phantom with adv sensors can't do the cloak + immediate decloak. This seems to be more of a specific exception that reverses the previous ruling that was based on the precedent of that timing window. I guess they just didn't like that one, not that it was usually anywhere near as good as ACD anyway.

Everything else seems to be clarifications or putting into print previous rulings.

I'm a little peeved, but it makes a lot more sense than the ship blasting across the board. And you still get a bit more movement forward/backward than a small ship.

Although it does make the Outrider title a lot less attractive...especially for five points.

It could be a buff in some circumstances, like tight asteroid fields. Your barrel roll is a lil harder to block now.

I think it was a pretty good change.

I'm a little peeved, but it makes a lot more sense than the ship blasting across the board. And you still get a bit more movement forward/backward than a small ship.

Although it does make the Outrider title a lot less attractive...especially for five points.

Obviously the angle the potential target is in relation to the outrider has to be considered, but even with the change, the distance the outrider rolls is now EXACTLY equal to one range increment. So there's a ship 2 millimeters from touching you on the left of your base, you roll right, it'll just barely be range 2. There was an extra half-small ship base margin for error before was all.

Without knowing the Outrider dial, it's impossible to tell at this point.

Was this new ruling made just for Dash w/Outrider title?

Was this new ruling made just for Dash w/Outrider title?

That was probably a driver, but it's also a check on all of those barrel-rolling Firesprays and YT-1300s. The fact that Imperials are also getting another Large Ship with Barrel Roll potential (the Decimator) probably also called for a tweak.

I'm fine with the ruling. Large Ships lose a bit of lateral movement, and their forward movement follows the same "1/2 of your base" that small ships had to follow, but the movements themselves feel a bit more natural for the size of the ship.

Expert Handling was somewhat balanced by the fact that you took stress for it.

So, yes. This change to big ships reflects the potency of the YT-2400.

I suspect it came during the Outrider's development.

I think its a good change. Keeps things like dancing falcons in check and keeps the 2400 from moving too far. Good call.

Can't say I like this change. Balance-wise it's probably not hurting anything, but I don't really like the precedent of randomly changing rules like this while simultaneously considering other rules/point costs/etc impossible to change. Why is it ok to have a rule that you'll only learn about if you read the tournament FAQ, but not ok to change Howlrunner's point cost to something more appropriate?

Why is it ok to have a rule that you'll only learn about if you read the tournament FAQ, but not ok to change Howlrunner's point cost to something more appropriate?

Simple.

If you're going to take part on a tournament, you're really expected to read up on the tournament rules, and FAQ. Plus it's fairly easy to correct someone at the event if they do something wrong.

There is however a rather massive difference between that and changing the printed value on an existing card.

Look at how few cards have Errata, and those are fairly small additions or changes, cleaning up the wording of the card so it works like intended.

Changing the point value on a pilot on the other hand would be really big change, they'd have to reprint those cards and find a way to make sure everyone who owns a Tie Fighter expansion has a way of getting the new card.

That all also assumes that FFG even thinks Howlrunner is under-priced in the first place.

Yeah you get a half inch skitter to the side rather than a full inch of skittering... it still works.

I'm totally fine with it, even though I have experienced the soft, comforting pleasures of the barrel rolling Firespray and Falcon many times. It was too much free movement, and you can still easily get into range 2 for your Outrider HLC thanks to how wide the ship base is.

...I don't really like the precedent of randomly changing rules like this while simultaneously considering other rules/point costs/etc impossible to change. Why is it ok to have a rule that you'll only learn about if you read the tournament FAQ, but not ok to change Howlrunner's point cost to something more appropriate?

Technically, FFG hasn't addressed how you execute a barrel roll on a Large ship until now. So--like a lot of other FAQ issues--it's not really a rule change, but rather an indication that people have been doing it wrong for a while, and putting us all on the same page going forward.

Can't say I like this change. Balance-wise it's probably not hurting anything, but I don't really like the precedent of randomly changing rules like this while simultaneously considering other rules/point costs/etc impossible to change. Why is it ok to have a rule that you'll only learn about if you read the tournament FAQ, but not ok to change Howlrunner's point cost to something more appropriate?

For one thing, it's not "the tournament FAQ". It's the FAQ, for the full game.

If you don't know about it, and nobody in your group knows about it, you'll keep playing it just as you are. No harm done.

If someone in your group does read the FAQ, you'll probably find out about it eventually.

If nobody in your group reads the FAQ, you'll probably still find out about it when someone buys the Outrider, because the change will almost certainly be published as part of the rules pack for that.

And if nobody in your group reads the FAQ, or buys an Outrider... <shrug> Ignorance will be bliss, and you'll be fine.

...I don't really like the precedent of randomly changing rules like this while simultaneously considering other rules/point costs/etc impossible to change. Why is it ok to have a rule that you'll only learn about if you read the tournament FAQ, but not ok to change Howlrunner's point cost to something more appropriate?

Technically, FFG hasn't addressed how you execute a barrel roll on a Large ship until now. So--like a lot of other FAQ issues--it's not really a rule change, but rather an indication that people have been doing it wrong for a while, and putting us all on the same page going forward.

I may think iPeregrine's complaint is misplaced, but I don't think this is right.

They haven't addressed how large ships target lock yet, should we anticipate that to be different than small ships? Is boost now different too, or have we been doing that wrong?

It's a change, and a good one, but let's not pretend it's anything else.

As an entirely non-tournament, casual player interested in cinematic play with friends I think it's ridiculous to rule that a ship the size of the yt's or the lambda, when rolling over their travelling axis as part of a movement would somehow manage to only shift over half of their width.

I get it from a tournament balance perspective though I guess and the solution to my problem is obvious.

Can't say I like this change. Balance-wise it's probably not hurting anything, but I don't really like the precedent of randomly changing rules like this while simultaneously considering other rules/point costs/etc impossible to change. Why is it ok to have a rule that you'll only learn about if you read the tournament FAQ, but not ok to change Howlrunner's point cost to something more appropriate?

Chardaan refit.

I don't think anything is unchangeable.

There is a practicality, cost, and logistics factor for a game publisher to consider though. FFG has proven that this is a living ruleset being driven by the shifting meta of new releases. The changes may not happen how you'd like, i.e. raw points change on an already distributed card, but they can and do happen in a different format where needed.

...I don't really like the precedent of randomly changing rules like this while simultaneously considering other rules/point costs/etc impossible to change. Why is it ok to have a rule that you'll only learn about if you read the tournament FAQ, but not ok to change Howlrunner's point cost to something more appropriate?

Technically, FFG hasn't addressed how you execute a barrel roll on a Large ship until now. So--like a lot of other FAQ issues--it's not really a rule change, but rather an indication that people have been doing it wrong for a while, and putting us all on the same page going forward.

I may think iPeregrine's complaint is misplaced, but I don't think this is right.

They haven't addressed how large ships target lock yet, should we anticipate that to be different than small ships? Is boost now different too, or have we been doing that wrong?

It's a change, and a good one, but let's not pretend it's anything else.

Good point.

Chardaan refit.

I don't think anything is unchangeable.

While I agree with your point, there's a very real difference between the Refit and changing the point value on Holwrunner.

FFG IMO at least quite simply can't change the printed value on a card, not without some way of replacing that card free of cost to us, and some way of making sure that everyone has the corrected card. Imagine going to a tournament and having someone pull out a Howlswarm with the 18 point Howlrunner, only to be told that she now costs 20 points... That's going to be a potential Massive headache.

Worse is if they do it once then now it becomes a thing they can do, and before you know it half the pilots might have their cost adjusted.

Besides, as I said above, that all assumes that FFG feels that Howlrunner is actually the wrong cost.

Besides, as I said above, that all assumes that FFG feels that Howlrunner is actually the wrong cost.

And this is really the key here.

While there is certainly a difference between a change that makes an entire list illegal (and may easily be missed until partway through an event) and something that may just surprise you in-game, the original complaint really had nothing to do with the distribution mechanisms, the burden on players, and the potential impacts of uneven distribution of errata.

It really was simply "Howlrunner still borken, y u no fix, FFG?!?"

As an entirely non-tournament, casual player interested in cinematic play with friends I think it's ridiculous to rule that a ship the size of the yt's or the lambda, when rolling over their travelling axis as part of a movement would somehow manage to only shift over half of their width.

Because a Barrel Roll Action doesn't always need to represent a barrel roll maneuver. The game uses a concrete system to represent an abstract concept, that of 3D maneuvering in 2D space. In flight just as much as a car on the ground, there is such a thing as drift. A quick, nimble ship like a TIE might actually be performing a barrel roll maneuver to modify it's position, but a more massive ship may just be using its mass to its advantage and drifting to one side rather than performing a legitimate barrel roll. None of this changes how the action is performed within the gamespace, but is thematically relevant all the same.

There is however a rather massive difference between that and changing the printed value on an existing card.

Except it really isn't. In both cases you're completely changing how something works. The printed rules for barrel rolls say one thing, and now this FAQ says something entirely different. That's just as much of a difference as a new point cost.

Look at how few cards have Errata, and those are fairly small additions or changes, cleaning up the wording of the card so it works like intended.

Yes, and that's exactly my point! So far FFG has only changed a very small number of rules, and only in ways that either clarify something that didn't work properly as-printed or make the card work like most people assumed it did (gunner being optional, for example). But this is something completely different, it's a major change to how a rule works, just to re-balance a ship.

That all also assumes that FFG even thinks Howlrunner is under-priced in the first place.

If FFG doesn't then I have to seriously question their understanding of the game they're publishing. Howlrunner is indisputably too cheap for what she does, and would not be 18 points if she had been published in a more recent wave.

Chardaan refit.

Not a valid comparison at all. Chardaan refit doesn't change any rules, it's just another upgrade option.

But this does highlight FFG's inconsistency: they knew the a-wing was overpriced, but they couldn't just errata the point cost to fix that balance issue, they had to publish an upgrade card that accomplishes the same result. So why did they change the barrel roll rules to fix a similar balance issue?

FFG has proven that this is a living ruleset being driven by the shifting meta of new releases.

But they haven't done this at all. For example, Blount is clearly a metagame decision intended to shift things away from swarms, but he doesn't change any rules. And so far all metagame shifts have been handled the same way, by new ships/upgrades and not by rule changes.

It really was simply "Howlrunner still borken, y u no fix, FFG?!?"

It's not about Howlrunner being broken, it's about the lack of consistency FFG is showing here. Barrel rolling on large ships wasn't broken, it was just a little too good and this change fine-tunes balance a bit. But FFG refuses to errata older cards to fine-tune balance, based on an assumption that you should be able to play everything as-written. So why is it ok to change the rules for barrel rolls, but not ok to change Howlrunner's point cost to 19? Why single out this one issue for a change?

Besides, as I said above, that all assumes that FFG feels that Howlrunner is actually the wrong cost.

I get the feeling that FFG purposefully designed the points cost to be proportionally low for Howlrunner, a support ship that in order to be effective must be stacked with numerous other ships.

I infer their design philosophy to be something along the lines of "TIE need to be able to be one shotted by x-wings, but should always be competitive in swarms."