I agree with a few of the previous posters in that it's not Echo (or the phantom) that's broken, it's the ACD. I'm not sure what to do about it because I like the ship and the way this wave in general is helping shift things away from swarms. But the ACD is the real problem.

If any upgrade is a "must use" that's a problem. And you will never see a phantom without ACD, it's just too good.

The newest Stygian+Adv Sens ruling ensures ACD is here to stay. I had hoped...I had hoped...

No. Phantoms die to blanks as easily as anything else...

I don't argue this but when I say this then others say that the problem is you hardly get a shot since they can change their coarse.

That's what I've been dealing with.

It doesn't matter that you have higher PS pilots, if the phantom can counter practically every move. I played with two Sigmas + Styg + Intel last night, and my opponent never had a chance, eventhough he flew 3 higher PS ships. And he's not a bad player.

Is Echo broken?

I asked Han Solo this question and he said "No".

I've seen unskilled pilots get into a bind real quick with that bank 2 just on face value alone. Echo is easily countered by turrets and pilots with higher skill that can pop her before she goes back into cloak / can adjust to her movement. A VI Boba Fett can just as easily kill echo as Han.

I've faced Echo and Whisper builds several times now. Have yet to lose. So no, not really.

Of course I've been fielding Imperials (various lists) dunno if Rebels would have a harder time.

I think the closest elements to broken in this game are extra action granting or wider fire arcs. But extra actions usually factor in a high cost (points+stress, etc.) so again I think it all works out.

I know echo is broken. I broke him/her last night with a Jan Oars/Wedge tag team before the phantom got a shot off. ;-)

Edit: Unnecessary sarcasm removed.

Personally I'm beginning to hate the new falcon meta more then I hated the swarm meta.

Wave 6 better bring the hammer down on falcons and turrets.

All the maneuvering fun is starting to be zapped out of this game.. I think wave 5 is a step in the wrong direction. Rebels didnt need yet another turret toy.

Well it is in the star wars universe.

I'm sure the tie fighters didn't like it much either.

At least you only have one turret ship in a list.

Still easy to beat. Focus fire drops then quickly

Personally I'm beginning to hate the new falcon meta more then I hated the swarm meta.

Wave 6 better bring the hammer down on falcons and turrets.

All the maneuvering fun is starting to be zapped out of this game.. I think wave 5 is a step in the wrong direction. Rebels didnt need yet another turret toy.

Why not bring the hammer down on falcons now? They certainly aren't invincible. The big reason they are winning, imo, is that so many people bring them to counter the phantom they are in the majority of listsAND that people who don't are stuck trying to counter both, which is a difficult task. I actually think people would have more success at this point bringing something to just wreck the big ships.

I have only one problem with the Phantom. The 4 Attack. It just seems wrong. I have used 3 phantoms on several occassion's and I feel dirty shooting with 4 attack dice at range 3, and cloaking and uncloaking to stay at long range like snipers. I don't think this is what they were intended for.

I have only one problem with the Phantom. The 4 Attack. It just seems wrong. I have used 3 phantoms on several occassion's and I feel dirty shooting with 4 attack dice at range 3, and cloaking and uncloaking to stay at long range like snipers. I don't think this is what they were intended for.

I think that might be more what they were intended for. ACD is working too well...Stygian + advanced sens apparently was more broken... Range 3 usually means 4vs 2-3 dice and taking 2-3 vs 3-5 dice in return. Maybe everyone just play tested the phantom as a sniper and that's why it's flying so different than expected.

Personally I'm beginning to hate the new falcon meta more then I hated the swarm meta.

Wave 6 better bring the hammer down on falcons and turrets.

All the maneuvering fun is starting to be zapped out of this game.. I think wave 5 is a step in the wrong direction. Rebels didnt need yet another turret toy.

Why not bring the hammer down on falcons now? They certainly aren't invincible. The big reason they are winning, imo, is that so many people bring them to counter the phantom they are in the majority of listsAND that people who don't are stuck trying to counter both, which is a difficult task. I actually think people would have more success at this point bringing something to just wreck the big ships.

The falcon isnt unbeatable. That's not what this is about. What it is about is that nothing outright scares a falcon nearly as much as the falcon can scare entire lists.

The balance is completely out of whack and wave 5 is only going to cause more problems..

Personally I'm beginning to hate the new falcon meta more then I hated the swarm meta.

Wave 6 better bring the hammer down on falcons and turrets.

All the maneuvering fun is starting to be zapped out of this game.. I think wave 5 is a step in the wrong direction. Rebels didnt need yet another turret toy.

Why not bring the hammer down on falcons now? They certainly aren't invincible. The big reason they are winning, imo, is that so many people bring them to counter the phantom they are in the majority of listsAND that people who don't are stuck trying to counter both, which is a difficult task. I actually think people would have more success at this point bringing something to just wreck the big ships.

There is nothing in the game that is a direct hard counter for falcons on the same level as the counter a falcon is for ceptors, phantoms and every ship that relies on maneuverability an arc dodging.

The falcon isnt unbeatable. That's not what this is about. What it is about is that nothing outright scares a falcon nearly as much as the falcon can scare entire lists.

The balance is completely out of whack and wave 5 is only going to cause more problems..

I think the HCLs, Outmanuever, missiles/torpedoes, and swarms are all good counters to the falcon. But, you're right, when you see the falcon and its 13 "hit points" it needs to be dealt with and there is no "anti-falcon" card.

It wasn't this dominant pre Wave IV, and I don't think it's because of C3PO (though he has helped them live a bit longer) or even Z-95s. I think it's both that a lot of people are bringing them and that a lot of other things people are doing with lists are playing right into their hands, as mentioned above.

As a side note, I'll add that while I realize a lot of people think Falcons are the bane of interceptors, I think interceptors (played correctly) are far less doomed than people think against falcons. They can more easily defend themselves better than most ships against a falcon and their three attack dice help bring it down pretty quickly. That said, some bad green dice will make for a quick game, too, and in a tourney where you may have to face multiple falcon lists, those dice holding up can be a challenge.

Not sure if it's been pointed out yet or not (I skipped a few pages in the middle) but contrary to many posts on here, high PS phantoms are not an auto-win against multiple lower PS ships. The higher the phantom's PS, the easier it is to block. When I played against Whisper last night, he was stuck cloaked for 3 turns while 3 Zs and a Y picked away at him.

Obviously it's harder with Echo, but the principle is the same. 4 attack dice is scary, but it can only attack one ship a turn. If you don't have the PS to hurt it, use your numbers to pin it down.

Echo certainly is pretty awesome. The amazing maneuverability and 5 attack dice at band range 1 have caused a lot of damage in a very short space of time. The Phantom has probably done more than anything else in the game to push me towards fielding turrets.