Half your squad, only three dice. Easy enough to take down if you tailor your squad to it. Everyone's flying turrets, so fly firepower.

Again, it's not that turrets are impossible to beat, it's that playing against Falcon list after Falcon list stops being fun very quickly and now Falcon lists are an even bigger part of the metagame than they already were.

Well not really.

Maybe for now, but after wave 5 is out there will be other options instead of a Falcon

The yt-2400, and Decimator.

And along with those Mara Jade.

Put her in a shuttle, or Firespray and watch the Phantom's scurry to stay out of range one.

Plus we still don't know what other goodies is coming with them

Having Mara jade and Tactician on a shuttle will make it very hard to escape stress.

Even if Nera can get the target lock after she moves (which isn't very fast remember), Echo and Whisper are likely to shoot first, negating the ideal Flechette shot.

The opposite, actually. The new FAQ clarified that flechette does stress even if it misses, and even if it it gets saved by munitions fail-safe.

So it is arguably preferable to shoot at the Phantom after it re-cloaks, because you have a better chance of missing and thus getting multiple stress out of the same torpedo.

Half your squad, only three dice. Easy enough to take down if you tailor your squad to it. Everyone's flying turrets, so fly firepower.

Again, it's not that turrets are impossible to beat, it's that playing against Falcon list after Falcon list stops being fun very quickly and now Falcon lists are an even bigger part of the metagame than they already were.

Take Brath. Drive the Millenium Falcon out of your local meta by shredding the ******* in a storm of crits.

And how does that affect the Phantom after it recloaks? It still gets to decloak, and then take it's green maneuver. And recloak before Nera fires again. You aren't going to be stacking stress with this combo.

And how does that affect the Phantom after it recloaks? It still gets to decloak, and then take it's green maneuver. And recloak before Nera fires again. You aren't going to be stacking stress with this combo.

Yeah unless your lucky and catch them using a white you won't stop the recloak.

I disapprove of this ship on the basis that I'm a Rebel player.

I love maneuverability, and that ship makes me want to betray my allies and play Empire...

I disapprove of this ship on the basis that I'm a Rebel player.

I love maneuverability, and that ship makes me want to betray my allies and play Empire...

I love how the community seems to think FFG doesn't playtest stuff. Do you really think this was just a thought and they punched up the cards and said "go" to the printers? My guess is they test this stuff a ton.

Phantoms are expensive in the 100 points. so they should have more bite. They have 4 total hit points, a solid 3 hits (2 + a crit) can take them out in one shot, or a nasty range one shot. How many times do you think you can roll 4 green dice and get evades on every roll, you can't. Most of the cards out there favor the attack it seems (predator mainly) so the amount of rerolls on an attack can take one down. you just have to fly a little different and hope you can lock them in an area.

Heck - one of the better ships thats not a turret (well full turret) is a well flown Firespray or 2 can keep them under control and 3 attack die will also help work them down.

as of superchewy - I have a little more hatred for that, but it can be killed. The local meta at last tournament was SUPER Falcon heavy. When it wasn't much before. But its a ship and they all can be shot down. Fly different of fly to make yourself happy.

If your Phantom is broken, I suggest a little super glue and some patience. And a better storage box. Or don't play with your little brother who throws things.

Problem solved.

I love how the community seems to think FFG doesn't playtest stuff. Do you really think this was just a thought and they punched up the cards and said "go" to the printers? My guess is they test this stuff a ton.

Further, it is absolutely no coincidence that Wave 5 features two tough, turreted ships and Rebel Aces offers upgrades to an ultramobile Rebel ship, a potent missile, and a 360-degree capable B-Wing immediately after the Phantom comes out. It's as though FFG anticipates the change to the game and smartly markets additional options to defeat it. Hmmm... it's as though they know what they are doing or something...

Further, it is absolutely no coincidence that Wave 5 features two tough, turreted ships and Rebel Aces offers upgrades to an ultramobile Rebel ship, a potent missile, and a 360-degree capable B-Wing immediately after the Phantom comes out. It's as though FFG anticipates the change to the game and smartly markets additional options to defeat it. Hmmm... it's as though they know what they are doing or something...

Utter hogwash, sir. What you're suggesting is lunacy, clear as day. Why on earth would an extremely successful gaming company, with a lucrative franchise for one of the most recognizable movie brands in the world ever possibly consider testing things before marketing them? Sheer nonsense, I say! Nonsense!

If you are really having that many problems with turrets than maybe the phantom isn't for you?

No, you're missing the point. The problem isn't that turrets counter phantoms and therefore phantoms are too hard to use, it's that a turret-heavy metagame is bad for the game as a whole and the phantom drives people to take turret lists more frequently. Falcon lists were already strong before the phantom existed, and now we're getting into a metagame where so many people have said "screw trying to out-fly this thing, I'm taking a Falcon" that you can expect to go to a tournament and face list after list where the super-turret just ignores all your maneuvering choices.

First: turrets don't ignore the opponent's maneuvering choices.Second: if everyone turns to the Falcon out of fear, then that means no one's running the thing everyone's actually afraid of, which creates openings for a lot of other lists. It's not as if HSF is impossibly hard to beat, after all.Third, or possibly Second-and-a-Half: Everyone believed the TIE swarm was the apex predator among competitive lists. Then Paul Heaver convincingly outflew one with BBXX to win Worlds, and suddenly BBXX was all over the metagame. Everyone believes now that the metagame is Phantoms and Falcons; I wonder what it will be in four weeks or four months?

There certainly is an opening in the meta right now, IMO, where the falcon has become more dominant and that bringing something that tears up falcons may be a better option than tailoring a list to try and counter the high ps phantoms.

Yes Phantoms are Broken, but no one from FFG will fix them so we have to suffer the consequences.

Yes Phantoms are Broken, but no one from FFG will fix them so we have to suffer the consequences.

Seems like recent regionals are more dominated by the falcon.

I agree with a few of the previous posters in that it's not Echo (or the phantom) that's broken, it's the ACD. I'm not sure what to do about it because I like the ship and the way this wave in general is helping shift things away from swarms. But the ACD is the real problem.

If any upgrade is a "must use" that's a problem. And you will never see a phantom without ACD, it's just too good.

I would say the reason Falcons were so prevalent at regionals was because people expected Phantoms. I brought an anti falcon/firespray list and while I did good against what I built to fight, I was dominated by Echo/ACD. Not from bad piloting, but the low PS lists (like the one I ran) are going to have problems if they cannot block Echo from de cloaking, or if they cannot stick a stress on Echo before he attacks.

The Phantom, specifically Echo, is not broken. I don't like ACD, but considering the points involved with fielding the Phantom, I believe it is justified.

Of course it goes without saying that I hate the Phantom with ACD, but that is a personal opinion and not one that belongs in the assessment of a ship or a specific pilot.

... and "Stay on Target" comes out and should stop this silly nonsense.

Why, it's almost like FFG knew this card was coming! How on earth could they know such a thing?!?!?!

Lunacy!

This isn't the first or only way to get mobility, 4 attack, or 4 defense. Hype is the problem, not the Phantom.

Upcoming Rebel Ace A-Wing pilot Gemmer Sojan will have automatic 4 Agility at range 1 of any Imperial ship. Is Gemmer broken too, since it doesn't even cost the Modification slot? What if you tack on a Stealth Device for LESS THAN AN ACD (OMG!) and then it's a potential 5 Agility. Unhittable! Add A-Wing Test Pilot, and take Push the Limit and you've got Focus/Evade/Stress on top of those 5 dice at range 1 all for a staggering 26 squad points (with the Refit)! OP! OP! OP!!! Oh wait, he still only hits with 2 base attack dice, 3 at range 1 which isn't all that exciting, even against a base TIE fighter.

Ask the falcons how overpowered phantoms are..

Well if you said to some I know they will reply with "so I have to fly Falcons if I want to compete with Phantom

Those people probably already are.

... and "Stay on Target" comes out and should stop this silly nonsense.

Why, it's almost like FFG knew this card was coming! How on earth could they know such a thing?!?!?!

Lunacy!

What is lunacy is that they have never released anything that specifically mitigates the effectiveness of turrets in the game. What I'd like to see is a pilot ability/EPT/Mod that forces the attacking turreted ship to use its front arc. That would be great justice.

And how does that affect the Phantom after it recloaks? It still gets to decloak, and then take it's green maneuver. And recloak before Nera fires again. You aren't going to be stacking stress with this combo.

You are if you fire more than one. Failsafed fletchettes are cheap and lots of rebel ships have currently unused torpedo slots. One stress token isn't an issue for the reasons you outline. Two or three stress tokens.....

I suspect that in epic play the GR-75 wil be nasty as hell for the same reasons; Jam actions do nasty things to ships that live and die by actions.