We'll see - after all, it could be that FFG has broken something (either in the form of the Phantom or in the form of turrets) but we need to see how the overall metagame settles before we can make that kind of call. If FFG knows what they're doing, it will be a long while before they try to take corrective action - don't fix what isn't broken yet!

I think that's the proper outlook to have. Now, how do we convince your friend to share it with us?

i am coming around i'm just angry.. it will really depend on the dial of the outrider to make full judgement.. hell it's possible that such a ship may not even have a green maneuver on its dial so that it needs alternate ways to shed stress (i know i'm now being facetious) but one can dream

i'm just being more realistic about this that i'm sure the dial will be more than sufficient to make it a must have in all rebel lists

I'm not even bothering to read any of the 4 pages of this thread.

But this started out as, yet another, OMG the sky is falling and FFG is stupid and has no idea what they're doing.

And suddenly, everything works out after.

I'm not even bothering to read any of the 4 pages of this thread.

But this started out as, yet another, OMG the sky is falling and FFG is stupid and has no idea what they're doing.

And suddenly, everything works out after.

well i did state it was a rant after all

but i did bring up a good point about a ship that should be competitive but isn't

by all standards before the phantom came around the interceptor was hands down the best ship in the game due to its dial and maneuverability.. it's only hindered by 360's.. which is fair and falcons can be beat.. but a 360 hlc will make them past almost useless to completely useless

It's a justified rant.

I see no particular future for the Interceptor outside of epic.

Which is just a shame, because it's one of the most fun ships to fly and to fly against.

And it is still far, far too early to make such predictions on the meta post wave 5. There is so many things that still have to be revealed. Is the HLC Outrider likely to be good, sure. But, we don't necessarily know what else is coming for everyone else.

It's a justified rant.

I see no particular future for the Interceptor outside of epic.

Which is just a shame, because it's one of the most fun ships to fly and to fly against.

A rant about a ship that will cost 50 odd points, that will need to use its barrel roll every time to shoot and that we don't know the dial is far from justified

now if there was no way to strap a hlc to the outrider's back i would have never started this thread in the first place..

In my opinion, this is where your whole argument died and came to a halt.

You're saying that the only reason you lost it was because of an ability on a ship that isn't released yet?

Now, don't get me wrong, I understand that we all can run thought experiments on how things MAY go down, and that any one of us can use proxies and the like to test out things, but the stark reality is that there is zero point in flipping out over a card/pilot/token/ability/whatever that nobody has even tried playing against.

And yeah, maybe if you proxied a game or two or five or ten and got your ass handed to you time after time, then you may be onto something, but considering I have yet to hear from even ONE person that they gave this build a go, you have no reason.

But come on. Really. Don't lose it and threaten to walk away from the game over something you haven't even attempted to play against. There is absolutely no logic in that whatsoever. I think we can all agree that this game is WAY too awesome to just walk away from because of something like that.

I actually hope this inspires someone out there in X-Wing Land to proxy this and let us know of your findings.

Don't you think, just maybe, that FFG has increased the number of 360 options for a reason? Maybe they are paying people to play the game and give feedback and based on this feedback they are making appropriate adjustments to the game. I don't see a problem here.

It's like Vorpal said earlier, it's to keep arc dodgers honest (though, I'd like to hear how it keeps jousters honest). I was utterly dismissed and completely bunged during the first round of Top 8 at Kublacon Regional by a Intercepter list that finished 2nd to Dallas. That means that, I like know what I'm talking about. Gives me more credibility, right?

yes i agree. but what is justified to bring in more 360 firing options?.. it feels to me like the guys putting out more content don't care at all about maneuverability and instead find ways to hinder it further

strong players know how to maneuver well and predict movements well. and this will always keep them ahead of the curve that newer players will always strive for and in my opinion is what makes the game great

but when you start evening the playing field for new players in the competitive scene by adding more 360 arcs, you hurt those that logged months to almost now 2 years of practice to get as good as they did in the first place

turrets cheapen the game play and feel vs actually out witting your opponent by flanking and punishing them for it

I really don't think turrets cheapen the game, man. It's a weak thing to fall back on. It'd be like, me saying aw man my bomber list got shredded by arc-dodging-interceptor-dirty-businessmen, no more maneuverable ships please?

I know I'm over simplifying. But the point remains, turrets are great and enhance the flavor of the game. Edited: or at least increases the number of strategical considerations, no? That's fun.

falcons are great balanced ships.. and a few turrets are fine to keep phantoms and interceptors in check.. but FFG is starting to go overboard with these

we will have a Bwing with 360 torp option

the falcon

the decimator

the outrider

the hwk 290

and the y wing

that's going to be approx 1/3 of the ships once wave 5 is released.. call me crazy but that's too much invested in 360 arcs in a game based on dogfighting and maneuvering. it's getting to the point where you will see most lists with at least some form of 360 arc to play with

and i'm not ok with this because it poses a threat to the viability of even playing with maneuverable ships in the first place which basically means your best chance is to joust.. i can't think of a more boring game than to joust all day long with your opponent

Turrets are decidedly not great and remove a lot of flavor from the game.

They don't belong in a game about dogfighting. At all, ever, period.

*shrug*

I just think there is starting to be too many turrets. 1 per faction, fine. But 3 plus variations from B, Y, HWK etc is too many.

Wave 6 better be a turret killer since wave 4 and 5 were designed to destroy specific lists.

Yet, the Dash is only PS 7. He has a lot of room. But the high PS skill Interceptors will know where the hole is.

And whisper is only a PS 7 too, right

Wave 6 better be a turret killer since wave 4 and 5 were designed to destroy specific lists.

here's hoping!

I really don't think turrets cheapen the game, man. It's a weak thing to fall back on. It'd be like, me saying aw man my bomber list got shredded by arc-dodging-interceptor-dirty-businessmen, no more maneuverable ships please?

I know I'm over simplifying. But the point remains, turrets are great and enhance the flavor of the game. Edited: or at least increases the number of strategical considerations, no? That's fun.

I can't remember, were you the other TIE swarm list or the bombers that made it in the top 8 or which list was yours? Just wondering so I can put a name to a face. I was the guy with interceptors that took a place in the top 4 (Was too tired to play Dallas at my ships strengths, was still a fun game but man his dice and my poor flying after 14 hours of straight gaming did not help.)

At Kublacon I had to play against not two falcons, but three Falcon lists with my interceptors. Yet, get this, I only lost 1 interceptor and Dark Curse at most against all these lists, the lists that were suppose to counter me! Funny enough, the one list I lost to was a Firespray+2 interceptors that ended up taking second, guess I should go out and say how OP firesprays are then. I even had one YT player sit down across from me and said to my face that he was happy to get to fight against my list because it was going to be easy, I didn't lose a single ship.

I personally feel every one that is nay saying turrets are just using that as a crutch excuse. Regardless of amount of time played.

The problem isn't that turrets are overpowered.

The problem is that they are boring.

Shrug.

I've had tons of fun games playing against the Falcon (even a double Falcon).

The problem isn't that turrets are overpowered.

The problem is that they are boring.

And I don't find this the case at all, I see it as a mind exercise in how to best play your ships. You can't play them like you would against a normal list, instead you must bob and weave between asteroids and keep your range. I personally feel turrets are one of the things that keep me from being bored when playing a interceptor list. But, see that's the thing, not every one finds this to be true, much like you. The concept of boring is all relative to the players that are playing, and their own personal tastes. Because some might *gasp* have fun with turrets!

I really don't think turrets cheapen the game, man. It's a weak thing to fall back on. It'd be like, me saying aw man my bomber list got shredded by arc-dodging-interceptor-dirty-businessmen, no more maneuverable ships please?

I know I'm over simplifying. But the point remains, turrets are great and enhance the flavor of the game. Edited: or at least increases the number of strategical considerations, no? That's fun.

I can't remember, were you the other TIE swarm list or the bombers that made it in the top 8 or which list was yours? Just wondering so I can put a name to a face. I was the guy with interceptors that took a place in the top 4 (Was too tired to play Dallas at my ships strengths, was still a fun game but man his dice and my poor flying after 14 hours of straight gaming did not help.)

At Kublacon I had to play against not two falcons, but three Falcon lists with my interceptors. Yet, get this, I only lost 1 interceptor and Dark Curse at most against all these lists, the lists that were suppose to counter me! Funny enough, the one list I lost to was a Firespray+2 interceptors that ended up taking second, guess I should go out and say how OP firesprays are then. I even had one YT player sit down across from me and said to my face that he was happy to get to fight against my list because it was going to be easy, I didn't lose a single ship.

I personally feel every one that is nay saying turrets are just using that as a crutch excuse. Regardless of amount of time played.

nicely played.. i particularly love how you spanked him hard after the comment he made. you probably sent him away with his head in shame

falcons are beatable, i've done it numerous times myself. especially when your defense dice don't let you down. it really is this hlc i fear. and if biggs is backing him up, you're likely to lose 1-2 ships before you can even fire at it

i'm skeptical but hopeful!

congrats on your placing

After 5 pages I see this thread as "FFG is releasing ship that makes my one trick pony list less good, lets hulk rage". Story of a life - meta changes, and you have to adapt, same list won't win you everything.

I really don't think turrets cheapen the game, man. It's a weak thing to fall back on. It'd be like, me saying aw man my bomber list got shredded by arc-dodging-interceptor-dirty-businessmen, no more maneuverable ships please?

I know I'm over simplifying. But the point remains, turrets are great and enhance the flavor of the game. Edited: or at least increases the number of strategical considerations, no? That's fun.

I can't remember, were you the other TIE swarm list or the bombers that made it in the top 8 or which list was yours? Just wondering so I can put a name to a face. I was the guy with interceptors that took a place in the top 4 (Was too tired to play Dallas at my ships strengths, was still a fun game but man his dice and my poor flying after 14 hours of straight gaming did not help.)

At Kublacon I had to play against not two falcons, but three Falcon lists with my interceptors. Yet, get this, I only lost 1 interceptor and Dark Curse at most against all these lists, the lists that were suppose to counter me! Funny enough, the one list I lost to was a Firespray+2 interceptors that ended up taking second, guess I should go out and say how OP firesprays are then. I even had one YT player sit down across from me and said to my face that he was happy to get to fight against my list because it was going to be easy, I didn't lose a single ship.

I personally feel every one that is nay saying turrets are just using that as a crutch excuse. Regardless of amount of time played.

nicely played.. i particularly love how you spanked him hard after the comment he made. you probably sent him away with his head in shame

falcons are beatable, i've done it numerous times myself. especially when your defense dice don't let you down. it really is this hlc i fear. and if biggs is backing him up, you're likely to lose 1-2 ships before you can even fire at it

i'm skeptical but hopeful!

congrats on your placing

I...what? I wasn't insulting him if anything I was agreeing with him, I was asking because most of the players at that regionals were nice and fun to play with.

People can fly what they want, I don't mind. I just find the nay saying on certain ships (aside from the poor advanced) is pretty counter intuitive, instead see it from a different angle and use that knowledge to make yourself a better pilot. Even though you might find it bland, others might find that list extremely fun to play. Also, I usually don't kill the YT or turret ship first because I don't fear them, so usually having to fight a Biggs on the other team is but a minor inconvenience, I find him more of a crutch (I like this word tonight) then anything.

The problem isn't that turrets are overpowered.

The problem is that they are boring.

Care to be more substantive with your posts, or are you just trying to rile people up again?

i mean about the YT player that said your match up was going to be easy because he designed it to counter lists like yours and then proceeded to spank him without losing a single ship

that kind of a loss is devastating to anyone that just smacked talked you and lost that badly for it

i think your list deserves a name for that.. i vote "Ego Crusher"

i mean about the YT player that said your match up was going to be easy because he designed it to counter lists like yours and then proceeded to spank him without losing a single ship

Ah, gotcha. yeah that was satisfying.

I will just say, wait for the next wave to hit and see how everything lands. Like many have said, I think its just a wee bit gun shy to discount a ship completely.