Dash + Outrider + HLC + PtL is 51 points and you can't shoot at range one. It only gets one attack per turn, and if it PtL's to get a focus on that attack it's going to be predictable. Also, it's PS7 so you can out-PS it with several pilot options.

If I had to do interceptors, I'd take Soontir + PtL + Hull, Turr Phennir + VI, and probably Whisper + VI + ACD. Soontir will double focus and evade every turn, Turr can shoot first and boost into range 1 if he didn't get there in the first place, and Whisper can use decloak to ensure he'll either be at range 1 or just stay cloaked. And because they're all PS9 they'll all move last, after Dash has done his thing.

I repeat, the sky is not falling.

Noone had said it is overpowered, underpriced or whatever. The discussion is entirely about gameplay. I would thank you if you would refrain using catchphrases as some sort of rethoric, since it would only contribute to lower the discussion by either side. To your point, yes out PS is nice, but not the end of all being when the opponent ship doesn't need arc to shoot you. Dial will be very important, because just a hard turn 1 + EU would be enough to confuse most of the interceptors tailing, him, even going after Dash.

I actually think that Han + 3 Z's will still be superior against interceptors, but HLC Dash + 4Z's will be the king of the match up against big ships. It would be interesting in that regard to me, if i actually cared about turrets.

If it doesn't have Outrider + HLC it's a 2-dice ship with a bunch of HP that the interceptors can chew through at their leisure. If it DOES have Outrider + HLC it's got a gaping hole at range 1 that good piloting can take advantage of, helped by Dash's low PS. If it has Outrider + Autoblaster, same story. If it has Outrider + Ion Cannon, it's not going to put out enough damage to be dangerous.

If anything, Outrider + HLC is something the anti-turret crowd should be happy to see, since there's actually a way to effectively arc-dodge: get into range 1!

Dash + Outrider + HLC + PtL is 51 points and you can't shoot at range one. It only gets one attack per turn, and if it PtL's to get a focus on that attack it's going to be predictable. Also, it's PS7 so you can out-PS it with several pilot options.

If I had to do interceptors, I'd take Soontir + PtL + Hull, Turr Phennir + VI, and probably Whisper + VI + ACD. Soontir will double focus and evade every turn, Turr can shoot first and boost into range 1 if he didn't get there in the first place, and Whisper can use decloak to ensure he'll either be at range 1 or just stay cloaked. And because they're all PS9 they'll all move last, after Dash has done his thing.

I repeat, the sky is not falling.

i hope you have a plan for other lists as well. .because your list is very fragile and also lacks some firepower.. especially if you lose an interceptor or 2

also that phantom is still going to fall hard to a HLC

i'm sure i can find a way to counter an HLC outrider also.. but i'd like to have options against a good array of lists as well

because let's face it.. in the casual scene.. nobody really cares.. but when it comes to tournaments.. i'd like to create a list that can actually win.. and not be completely handicapped any list that runs it

As a mainly imperial player, with focus mostly on interceptors and phantoms. Bring on the turrets, I rarely lose more then 1 ship to a turret based squad. Dual falcons, HWKs, and Ys. It really isn't scary, if anything it makes me a better pilot. I learn to fly the asteroids and range to maximize my ships against the other list. I will continue to play my interceptors, for I see no real change, and if you have the experience you do I see no reason why you wouldn't feel the same.

Dash + Outrider + HLC + PtL is 51 points and you can't shoot at range one. It only gets one attack per turn, and if it PtL's to get a focus on that attack it's going to be predictable. Also, it's PS7 so you can out-PS it with several pilot options.

If I had to do interceptors, I'd take Soontir + PtL + Hull, Turr Phennir + VI, and probably Whisper + VI + ACD. Soontir will double focus and evade every turn, Turr can shoot first and boost into range 1 if he didn't get there in the first place, and Whisper can use decloak to ensure he'll either be at range 1 or just stay cloaked. And because they're all PS9 they'll all move last, after Dash has done his thing.

I repeat, the sky is not falling.

i hope you have a plan for other lists as well. .because your list is very fragile and also lacks some firepower.. especially if you lose an interceptor or 2

also that phantom is still going to fall hard to a HLC

i'm sure i can find a way to counter an HLC outrider also.. but i'd like to have options against a good array of lists as well

because let's face it.. in the casual scene.. nobody really cares.. but when it comes to tournaments.. i'd like to create a list that can actually win.. and not be completely handicapped any list that runs it

You, in the OP, were saying we should reward people who can out-fly their opponent. This is, like, a great example of a list in that vein, and I think this would be pretty strong against most lists. Han would give it the most trouble, but get everyone into range 1 to try and focus him down after two turns--Hull on Soontir means he is unlikely to get 1-shotted, at least. Or try and strip escorts and play for time and the partial win.

It'll outmaneuver most other ships on the board, the Interceptor deals with stress well, and the Phantom is the Phantom. I can choose to engage or not with it better than any ship in the game. If I am not confident I'll end up in range 1 of an HLC + Outrider, I'll just disengage/go max evasive.

To the OP it appears that Indeed you are of enough skill to win a regionals so it seems slightly unbecoming for you to come on here and piss and moan about a ship that isn't being released for a couple months when clearly your good enough for it to not matter, why did you bother posting? Everyone has favorite ships I too love the interceptor but as has been pointed out too many time's to count without turrets tournament top tables would be a sea of interceptor (and now phantom) mirror matches

Your suggested upgrade isn't a bad idea at all, once you strip away the editorializing (and the insults aimed at the dozens of designers, developers, and playtesters who I believe work really hard at this stuff). It makes sense that highly dodgy ships should get some kind of bonus when they're hanging around out of your arc, and it seems like it would be kind of a cool thing to include.

the insults were out of frustration and have edited the post as such.. i meant nothing by it as it was just hot air escaping from my mouth.. or in this case hot air escaping from my head and onto my keyboard

Dash + Outrider + HLC + PtL is 51 points and you can't shoot at range one. It only gets one attack per turn, and if it PtL's to get a focus on that attack it's going to be predictable. Also, it's PS7 so you can out-PS it with several pilot options.

If I had to do interceptors, I'd take Soontir + PtL + Hull, Turr Phennir + VI, and probably Whisper + VI + ACD. Soontir will double focus and evade every turn, Turr can shoot first and boost into range 1 if he didn't get there in the first place, and Whisper can use decloak to ensure he'll either be at range 1 or just stay cloaked. And because they're all PS9 they'll all move last, after Dash has done his thing.

I repeat, the sky is not falling.

i hope you have a plan for other lists as well. .because your list is very fragile and also lacks some firepower.. especially if you lose an interceptor or 2

also that phantom is still going to fall hard to a HLC

i'm sure i can find a way to counter an HLC outrider also.. but i'd like to have options against a good array of lists as well

because let's face it.. in the casual scene.. nobody really cares.. but when it comes to tournaments.. i'd like to create a list that can actually win.. and not be completely handicapped any list that runs it

You, in the OP, were saying we should reward people who can out-fly their opponent. This is, like, a great example of a list in that vein, and I think this would be pretty strong against most lists. Han would give it the most trouble, but get everyone into range 1 to try and focus him down after two turns--Hull on Soontir means he is unlikely to get 1-shotted, at least. Or try and strip escorts and play for time and the partial win.

It'll outmaneuver most other ships on the board, the Interceptor deals with stress well, and the Phantom is the Phantom. I can choose to engage or not with it better than any ship in the game. If I am not confident I'll end up in range 1 of an HLC + Outrider, I'll just disengage/go max evasive.

there's still the other half of your opponents list to worry about.. even if you manage to get lucky enough with high pilot skill interceptor to get range 1 of their arc.. don't you think a good player will have that covered by having the rest of his squad fire at you while he's at it? and if you choose to focus down his support.. he'll blast you with the HLC..

i still see no upsides to fielding interceptors once this beast is among us

I agree with most of your opening post (not the insulting part). I love fast maneuverable ships and accept that they pay a premium to be able to do so. I too find it awkward and annoying that more is added to the game to combat this than to enhance it and the one enhancement they have added is a new ship combo that requires them to put more hard counters against this type of gameplay.

I also really dislike the "fly better" comments that always follow. Until very recently there was no way to totally evade arcs all the time (new phantom does it a lot more often than even amazing interceptor pilots), if that is happening to you it is because you're one of the most amazing pilots ever and should easily be winning every serious tournament you're playing in OR, more likely, you're not playing vs. optimized lists or pilots of the same ability level (and it it only happens some time you're just lucky!). I also dislike "just play swarm", "switch sides", and "play more whine less" and other such dismissive comments.

Continuing to make a whole play style less valid really takes away from the game. No one thing is doing that but the sum of these additions has done so to the interceptor (which was just seeing life again), the awing (which is getting just enough to combat this in the form of point reduction AND dual EPT AND great new pilots), the already terrible advanced, and the new phantom (which is not broken as a ship but has some combo issues to be watched). What has been done to enhance or reward arc dodging lately for all ships and all factions outside of the new hotzness of the phantom? Outmaneuver. That's it. And that has some very stiff completion and can't be taken by all ships who could use the bump.

Anyway, I'm with you as a know interceptor enthusiast and someone who has battled this before. Results are already trickling in that the interceptor is dying even faster than pre-aces and the play style that it defined will continue to decline as well.

The sky might not be falling but it's also really really far away from being anywhere close to a sunny day.

Why all the hubbub if you won a regionals? Clearly the situation isn't nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.

To the OP it appears that Indeed you are of enough skill to win a regionals so it seems slightly unbecoming for you to come on here and piss and moan about a ship that isn't being released for a couple months when clearly your good enough for it to not matter, why did you bother posting? Everyone has favorite ships I too love the interceptor but as has been pointed out too many time's to count without turrets tournament top tables would be a sea of interceptor (and now phantom) mirror matches

i know everyone has their favorite ships.. that's not the point i bring.. but a hlc on a large base 360 turret that has the ability to barrel roll is just too much.. i believe it pushes past the boundaries of balance

now if the outrider can only do a soft 2 as it's longest maneuver and a straight 3.. i'd say there is hope after all.. but i doubt we'll see that

I would not assume FFG is not planning on doing something like this already.

Why all the hubbub if you won a regionals? Clearly the situation isn't nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.

it was to reinforce to the person trolling me that i am a compitant player and i have proof of my claims and that i do have some sense of what i'm talking about.. nothing more

Hehehe outrider with hlc and neera with 2 apts!

Why all the hubbub if you won a regionals? Clearly the situation isn't nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.

it was to reinforce to the person trolling me that i am a compitant player and i have proof of my claims and that i do have some sense of what i'm talking about.. nothing more

I get that, but at the same time you're also working against yourself. You can't say on the one hand "turrets are ruining the game for me because I like Interceptors," and then on the other "I won a major event with Interceptors where I faced down two turret lists" without raising some serious questions about the legitimacy of your gripe.

Look at it this way: what would you think if you saw Paul Heaver rant about TIE swarms dominating the meta?

Your suggested upgrade isn't a bad idea at all, once you strip away the editorializing (and the insults aimed at the dozens of designers, developers, and playtesters who I believe work really hard at this stuff). It makes sense that highly dodgy ships should get some kind of bonus when they're hanging around out of your arc, and it seems like it would be kind of a cool thing to include.

the insults were out of frustration and have edited the post as such.. i meant nothing by it as it was just hot air escaping from my mouth.. or in this case hot air escaping from my head and onto my keyboard

Fair enough.

Why all the hubbub if you won a regionals? Clearly the situation isn't nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.

it was to reinforce to the person trolling me that i am a compitant player and i have proof of my claims and that i do have some sense of what i'm talking about.. nothing more

I get that, but at the same time you're also working against yourself. You can't say on the one hand "turrets are ruining the game for me because I like Interceptors," and then on the other "I won a major event with Interceptors where I faced down two turret lists" without raising some serious questions about the legitimacy of your gripe.

Look at it this way: what would you think if you saw Paul Heaver rant about TIE swarms dominating the meta?

Edit : link to Major Juggler's thread : http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/105107-2014-regionals-results/?p=1164068 - Spokane event

A big problem, I guess, that I have with the turret naysayers is that this is a living game. It's changing, and it'll continue to change as long as FFG is putting out new expansions, which I think we agree that we all want to see, on a general level. If the game was static and nothing new ever happened, it would run the risk of getting stale.

Part of the fun is seeing how the new ships/pilots/etc affect the game and what you can do to play with and against new concepts that are invented. I've got a lot of faith in FFG to not ridiculously unbalance the game--they had their early struggles (TIE Advanced, I'm looking at you) but since then they've consistently released innovative but balanced product.

He won with a 5 Academy mini-swarm + Echo

Fair enough. What is the Phantom, if not a ship with a high skill cap that's also highly dependent upon maneuverability? Sure, running them en masse like executor might want to do with his Interceptors probably isn't viable, but then we open up a whole different can of worms. There are lots of things in this game that aren't competitive, so what it really boils down to is how much attention our pet favorites get from FFG. I love the Y-Wing, and as much controversy as it's stirred up in some recent threads, I'm not exactly crying over the fact that an update keeps getting passed up in favor of other ships. Oh well, I can still play it casually.

You would think a person with enough competitive experience to win a regional would understand how to play the game. I don't mean how to play X-Wing, but out how to play the meta. Some lists win, and some lists don't. It's as simple as that. The most successful players play what wins because they want to win, not because a particular ship or strategy strikes their fancy. There are very few games that are perfectly balanced, where any given deck or list is equally viable, and whether we want to admit it to ourselves or not X-Wing isn't one of them. So, if we're going to gripe about Interceptors and turrets, we might as well go ahead and complain about everything else that's wrong with the game. That or accept it, and play the ships we want to without worrying about how viable they are.

Why all the hubbub if you won a regionals? Clearly the situation isn't nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.

it was to reinforce to the person trolling me that i am a compitant player and i have proof of my claims and that i do have some sense of what i'm talking about.. nothing more

I get that, but at the same time you're also working against yourself. You can't say on the one hand "turrets are ruining the game for me because I like Interceptors," and then on the other "I won a major event with Interceptors where I faced down two turret lists" without raising some serious questions about the legitimacy of your gripe.

Look at it this way: what would you think if you saw Paul Heaver rant about TIE swarms dominating the meta?

they DID dominate the meta.. up until phantoms came into play and said "no more"

but at least the phantom has a hard counter

but with a large base ship that has the potential (providing the dial isn't trash) to stay in range 3 all game with 10 hp and 2 agility to boot.. this is going to be one tough nut to crack for any list

and i do understand how to play the meta.. that's why i didn't fly interceptors in the first place

but i'd like to as i'm sure a lot of people would.. i've tried and seen a good number of people try with some success but not enough to make it worth while

and the Y-wings are still competitive.. you just can't run numerous ones and hope to win it like you could in wave 1

they are still fierce tough little buggers that will wreck lists if you don't pay them enough attention early on

they DID dominate the meta.. up until phantoms came into play and said "no more"

but at least the phantom has a hard counter

but with a large base ship that has the potential (providing the dial isn't trash) to stay in range 3 all game with 10 hp and 2 agility to boot.. this is going to be one tough nut to crack for any list

And yet a TIE swarm still lost the biggest event this past year, so shouldn't that tell you something?

Look, I get your concerns, but I think you're crying wolf way too soon. We don't even have all of the information yet - arguably the most important information - let alone the ships in our hands to actually play with. Why don't we wait a few more months and get some wave 5 results in before we pass judgment, hmm?

He won with a 5 Academy mini-swarm + Echo

Fair enough. What is the Phantom, if not a ship with a high skill cap that's also highly dependent upon maneuverability? Sure, running them en masse like executor might want to do with his Interceptors probably isn't viable, but then we open up a whole different can of worms. There are lots of things in this game that aren't competitive, so what it really boils down to is how much attention our pet favorites get from FFG. I love the Y-Wing, and as much controversy as it's stirred up in some recent threads, I'm not exactly crying over the fact that an update keeps getting passed up in favor of other ships. Oh well, I can still play it casually.

You would think a person with enough competitive experience to win a regional would understand how to play the game. I don't mean how to play X-Wing, but out how to play the meta. Some lists win, and some lists don't. It's as simple as that. The most successful players play what wins because they want to win, not because a particular ship or strategy strikes their fancy. There are very few games that are perfectly balanced, where any given deck or list is equally viable, and whether we want to admit it to ourselves or not X-Wing isn't one of them. So, if we're going to gripe about Interceptors and turrets, we might as well go ahead and complain about everything else that's wrong with the game. That or accept it, and play the ships we want to without worrying about how viable they are.

I won't argue with you about the way things are. Can't blame the guy for wanting/wishing things were different.

I've been successful in X-Wing (and other similar games) because I try to gain an understanding of what I'm going to see, and then building a deck/list/army/whatever to beat that. That's why Executor and I both placed top 4 at Spokane.

Executor is correct that the Interceptor is a ship that is getting caught in the flak aimed at the Phantom. This is nothing really new for these types of games. The turrets will get played, and people will adapt, and they will once again recede to more normal levels. I don't personally believe that the Falcon builds or the expected Outrider builds will be good enough to not only beat the Phantoms and the Interceptors, but also the swarms and the lists that were trashing them before the Phantom came out. The game, I expect, will settle back into a new meta, and then ships like the Interceptor and the Phantom will be able to emerge from the woodwork and be playable again.

We'll see - after all, it could be that FFG has broken something (either in the form of the Phantom or in the form of turrets) but we need to see how the overall metagame settles before we can make that kind of call. If FFG knows what they're doing, it will be a long while before they try to take corrective action - don't fix what isn't broken yet!

We'll see - after all, it could be that FFG has broken something (either in the form of the Phantom or in the form of turrets) but we need to see how the overall metagame settles before we can make that kind of call. If FFG knows what they're doing, it will be a long while before they try to take corrective action - don't fix what isn't broken yet!

I think that's the proper outlook to have. Now, how do we convince your friend to share it with us?

We'll see - after all, it could be that FFG has broken something (either in the form of the Phantom or in the form of turrets) but we need to see how the overall metagame settles before we can make that kind of call. If FFG knows what they're doing, it will be a long while before they try to take corrective action - don't fix what isn't broken yet!

I think that's the proper outlook to have. Now, how do we convince your friend to share it with us?

Just give him time. As he ended his initial post, (/rant), this was a reaction to a new ship announced that hurts his favorite ship. Unfortunately, when someone gets attacked, they find themselves forced to defend their position, and it goes downhill from there.

I still don't see how Nera provoked this. She can shoot outside her arc twice. In a highly advertised fashion. That will require 4-12 additional points.

I understand being disappointed in getting more turret primaries in the Decimator and YT-2400. But, there is still a lot we don't know about the ships. But from what I've seen so far, they look to be creative variations, with weaknesses.