Yes you did, right here:

see FFG.. innovation.. it can be solved without adding more dice luck than this game already has

you do realize that by adding more agility you actually significantly lower the dice luck when fighting against 360's, right? and it actually makes you stand a fighting chance with a 3 hp ship.. and by all rights you still could get one shotted, yes.. but at least it will last longer and give a reason not to run the outrunner with hlc.. because i see 0 downsides to it

and interceptors will NEVER see play because of it.. the heavy laser cannon eats ties for breakfast!

Turrets are the uber.

Just look at all those double YT-1300 lists that are dominating the tournament list.

I can't wait for my double VT-49. I love me the 49ers.

There's a counterstrategy to everything.

Falcon, sit at Range 3, focus fire with multiple ships and let its low agility be its downfall. Outmaneuver EPT means no agility at all. VT-49 moreso, it has no agility at all.

HWK/Y-wing: All turret upgrades are Range 1-2. Range 3 arcdodge is still arcdodge. Outmaneuver once again brutalises them.

Nera, her ordnance is one shot and has limited rangebands. Just have the locked ship avoid that band and the forward arc.

Outrider, without the title it's a two dice turret, easily dodged. With the title it's a Range 1 only attack that's easier to dodge than a normal arc, an HLC with a R1 donut hull where it's blind, or an ion turret that caps at one damage a turn.

but when you have a large ship base with what will likely be a good enough maneuver dial and the ability to barrel roll to boot with a hlc strapped to its back..

HLC is Range 2-3. Get any part of your base into Range 1 and it cannot shoot you at all, no matter which angle you approach. HLC Outrider can be outmaneuvered with no more than jousting.

do you honestly mean to tell me that any good player is going to let you have a chance at range 1?

the ability to barrel roll with a large base already puts you outside of range 1 even if they just crashed into you

Yes you did, right here:

see FFG.. innovation.. it can be solved without adding more dice luck than this game already has

you do realize that by adding more agility you actually significantly lower the dice luck when fighting against 360's, right? and it actually makes you stand a fighting chance with a 3 hp ship.. and by all rights you still could get one shotted, yes.. but at least it will last longer and give a reason not to run the outrunner with hlc.. because i see 0 downsides to it

and interceptors will NEVER see play because of it.. the heavy laser cannon eats ties for breakfast!

True, i love playing against TIEs when i have HLCs.

Executor, do us a favor.

Stop sucking at flying.

The disadvantage to most turretted ships is their high point cost. I look at it like you sacrifice whole ship just for the ability to shoot with a turret... the Falcon and VT-49 EASILY cost 2 ships, possibly 3. Even an HWK outfitted to properly fire a Blaster Turret ends up costing a good amount, and that only has range 2.

The one thing that DOES seem unbalanced to me are Ion Turrets. You can run 4 Y-Wings with Ion Turrets and still have 8 points left over. Stuff like that ruins games for me, but that's just my gripe.

If you can beat my squints with 4 Y-wings with ICT, I DESERVED to lose.

Executor, do us a favor.

Stop sucking at flying.

I read this with a triumph the insult comic dog voice in my head.

Executor, do us a favor.

Stop sucking at flying.

right, keep pretending you know my skill level

i did just win a regionals with an empire list.. so i must have some decent flying skills

or are you saying that everyone that attended spokane should just quit now because they all suck at flying too? because i recall facing some pretty challenging and fun players there

do yourself a favor and either give input that counters my argument with reasons why or find some common ground with me

or go away

Executor, do us a favor.

Stop sucking at flying.

Unless you know him, don't say he sucks at flying, or else we're gonna have another Emperor Palpatine.

Edit: Also, it's just not nice.

Good interceptor players should be able to fly them to be able to land range one hits on a large base ship whether it can barrel-roll or not, right? Especially since there's a ton of high-PS interceptor pilots that'll be moving last.

The sky isn't falling.

Umm, if the Outrider collides with another ship, it loses it's action.

Based on my experiences with Vader, high PS Interceptors shouldn't have too much of an issue getting into the blind spot.

Umm, if the Outrider collides with another ship, it loses it's action.

maybe not with Dauntless...It hasn't been spoiled yet however the GTM article alluded to it

The Dauntless is the Decimator title.

Executor, do us a favor.

Stop sucking at flying.

right, keep pretending you know my skill level

i did just win a regionals with an empire list.. so i must have some decent flying skills

or are you saying that everyone that attended spokane should just quit now because they all suck at flying too? because i recall facing some pretty challenging and fun players there

do yourself a favor and either give input that counters my argument with reasons why or find some common ground with me

or go away

Want some input? Here's some input.

You're flying in the face of turrets. The way you say it, you're 1v1ing turrets.

Don't f**king do that.

The Dauntless is the Decimator title.

ah nvm then

There's a counterstrategy to everything.

Falcon, sit at Range 3, focus fire with multiple ships and let its low agility be its downfall. Outmaneuver EPT means no agility at all. VT-49 moreso, it has no agility at all.

HWK/Y-wing: All turret upgrades are Range 1-2. Range 3 arcdodge is still arcdodge. Outmaneuver once again brutalises them.

Nera, her ordnance is one shot and has limited rangebands. Just have the locked ship avoid that band and the forward arc.

Outrider, without the title it's a two dice turret, easily dodged. With the title it's a Range 1 only attack that's easier to dodge than a normal arc, an HLC with a R1 donut hull where it's blind, or an ion turret that caps at one damage a turn.

but when you have a large ship base with what will likely be a good enough maneuver dial and the ability to barrel roll to boot with a hlc strapped to its back..

HLC is Range 2-3. Get any part of your base into Range 1 and it cannot shoot you at all, no matter which angle you approach. HLC Outrider can be outmaneuvered with no more than jousting.

Remains to be seen.

Barrel roll on a big base buys you a lot of breathing room.

Executor, do us a favor.

Stop sucking at flying.

You honoured your nickname quite well with that rebuttal.

I dislike turret play, i think they should exist anyways, specially because the game would be solely dominated by top arc dogders like the interceptor if they weren't forced to keep their lists "honest" in case a falcon would appear.

But i also wonder why they added a second one for rebels, and one for imperials.

There's a counterstrategy to everything.

Falcon, sit at Range 3, focus fire with multiple ships and let its low agility be its downfall. Outmaneuver EPT means no agility at all. VT-49 moreso, it has no agility at all.

HWK/Y-wing: All turret upgrades are Range 1-2. Range 3 arcdodge is still arcdodge. Outmaneuver once again brutalises them.

Nera, her ordnance is one shot and has limited rangebands. Just have the locked ship avoid that band and the forward arc.

Outrider, without the title it's a two dice turret, easily dodged. With the title it's a Range 1 only attack that's easier to dodge than a normal arc, an HLC with a R1 donut hull where it's blind, or an ion turret that caps at one damage a turn.

but when you have a large ship base with what will likely be a good enough maneuver dial and the ability to barrel roll to boot with a hlc strapped to its back..

HLC is Range 2-3. Get any part of your base into Range 1 and it cannot shoot you at all, no matter which angle you approach. HLC Outrider can be outmaneuvered with no more than jousting.

Remains to be seen.

Barrel roll on a big base buys you a lot of breathing room.

PtL, barrel roll + engine upgrade and there is absolutely little way an interceptor keeps himself at range 1 against a large base, specially one that ignores obstacles while moving so he can still perform actions.

Executor, do us a favor.

Stop sucking at flying.

You honoured your nickname quite well with that rebuttal.

Hey man, the nickname was given and I ran with it because it's true, more often than not.

Executor, do us a favor.

Stop sucking at flying.

You honoured your nickname quite well with that rebuttal.

I dislike turret play, i think they should exist anyways, specially because the game would be solely dominated by top arc dogders like the interceptor if they weren't forced to keep their lists "honest" in case a falcon would appear.

But i also wonder why they added a second one for rebels, and one for imperials.

i 100% agree.. now if there was no way to strap a hlc to the outrider's back i would have never started this thread in the first place.. but i mean. come on FFG.. what were you thinking?

Yet, the Dash is only PS 7. He has a lot of room. But the high PS skill Interceptors will know where the hole is.

For the record, Executor *is* good with interceptors, and he's a good pilot in general. He won the Spokane Regionals, and from what I recall fought against two HSF with Gunner lists on the way to his title.

So - keep that in mind when telling him to stop sucking.

I believe what he's decrying is the death of the 3 or 4 ship imperial builds involving 3 Interceptors. Sinking 30+ points into an interceptor when you're flying against someone with 13 health, 3 - 4 dice for attack, and potentially multiple re-rolls is rough. Especially when a single flat die-roll kills your ship. Part of the issue is that as they are releasing ships that help counter the Phantom, the Interceptor gets hit hard as a bystander.

Part of the problem right now is the overall metagame. Personally, I think that ships like the Interceptor and the Phantom will be viable ships once things sort themselves out - right now though, due to the huge number of HSF builds (and its variants), the Interceptor has a lot of difficulty. As such, if you are a huge Interceptor fan, things look grim since you have 2 additional turreted ships (including one that can take a 360 degree HLC!) and now a B-Wing that will be able to fire in any direction with its torpedoes.

@wonderWAAAGH - KineticOperator's post directly addresses the weakness of the turreted ships vs. the more traditional TIE swarm and it's rebel counterpart, and against the 4 ship rebel build that tanked up. And he's right - having a hyper-mobile Falcon, and using it properly, are two entirely different things. That said, try to understand where Executor is coming from - It has long been acknowledged that *in general* interceptors are weak at high level events because of their reliance on green dice to stay alive, and this is compounded by ships with 360 firing arcs and multiple attacks (gunner/Luke).

Dash + Outrider + HLC + PtL is 51 points and you can't shoot at range one. It only gets one attack per turn, and if it PtL's to get a focus on that attack it's going to be predictable. Also, it's PS7 so you can out-PS it with several pilot options.

If I had to do interceptors, I'd take Soontir + PtL + Hull, Turr Phennir + VI, and probably Whisper + VI + ACD. Soontir will double focus and evade every turn, Turr can shoot first and boost into range 1 if he didn't get there in the first place, and Whisper can use decloak to ensure he'll either be at range 1 or just stay cloaked. And because they're all PS9 they'll all move last, after Dash has done his thing.

I repeat, the sky is not falling.

Executor, do us a favor.

Stop sucking at flying.

You honoured your nickname quite well with that rebuttal.

I dislike turret play, i think they should exist anyways, specially because the game would be solely dominated by top arc dogders like the interceptor if they weren't forced to keep their lists "honest" in case a falcon would appear.

But i also wonder why they added a second one for rebels, and one for imperials.

i 100% agree.. now if there was no way to strap a hlc to the outrider's back i would have never started this thread in the first place.. but i mean. come on FFG.. what were you thinking?

I think they were thinking that, from the perspective of an Interceptor, a turret with a giant hole blown in the middle is actually less of a problem than a Falcon. I think they were thinking that, as KO made clear in his thread earlier this week (last week?), turrets are part of the game and have been since the beginning--not only do they keep arc-dodgers honest but they also keep jousters honest, which I'll go into elsewhere at another time.

I think they were thinking that the top players in the game, and I'm aware that you are one, would be more interested in figuring out how their favorite parts of the game were going to grow and evolve than in whining about how these newfangled turramawhatsits are ruining the Interceptor's fun. (So I tied an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time…)

Your suggested upgrade isn't a bad idea at all, once you strip away the editorializing (and the insults aimed at the dozens of designers, developers, and playtesters who I believe work really hard at this stuff). It makes sense that highly dodgy ships should get some kind of bonus when they're hanging around out of your arc, and it seems like it would be kind of a cool thing to include.

Yet, the Dash is only PS 7. He has a lot of room. But the high PS skill Interceptors will know where the hole is.

Kinky. Always knew Dash was into that.