so with the new spoilers from rebel aces, i can't help but wonder why we have yet another 360 option coming our way

i thought the point of this game was to reward the players that outmaneuver their opponent, not the one who brings the most amount of no blind spots fire power

i held my tongue on the new wave 5 ships as i figured, hey. maybe those debris fields will do something more interesting than giving stress.. like denying large ships from shooting small ships through them or at least giving them a major agility boost

but no i was disappointed again

and as more of these 360 fire arcs come into the game i see my favorite ship (the interceptor) dwindling without any sign of hope as imperial aces was a complete flop compared to what the rebel aces is bringing to the table

so rather than being frustrated to the point of pulling the hair out of my head

i figured it's time i started some innovation of my own to combat the people at FFG (that from my perspective) seem to think 360 firing arcs everywhere will somehow fix a problem, when it only makes it worse

this game really should reward the players that can out fly their opponent, not punish them because they chose a ship with 3 hp and a solid maneuver dial for at least 1/5 of their points

now i ran interceptors for a long time and falcon lists were an uphill battle but they were still beatable. but when the b wings came along with heavy laser cannons; they gave the interceptor a run for its money.. and now we are soon to have a 360 fire arc with a heavy laser cannon.. in the words of charlie brown.. "Good Grief"

so to fix the interceptor to see more play i propose an idea, how about a 0-2 point modification that adds 1,2 or 3 agility to the interceptor that is outside the primary firing arc of the ship that's firing at it and call it something like "advanced thrusters".. hell it doesn't have to be just interceptors, A wings would also benifit from this ability

the idea of this is that these ships are so fast that the turrets have troubles catching up to them and thus why they get the added agility bonus

this sort of idea will inspire more innovation in list building and could even help bring down the phantom count, as high pilot skill interceptors are really the only ones that stand a fighting chance against them other than the 360 arcs

i'll admit that the phantoms have put a broken state of affairs on the meta right now, but if there was no 360 arcs in the first place the phantoms would have never been as strong as they are now.. but by adding more 360 arcs to battle the arc dodging phantoms.. you hinder the ability of everything else to stand a fighting chance

another idea for new ships to come out.

how about ships that only have arcs on the side of the ship and can't attack head on and require a pass by to attack.. this could also help nullify phantom play and even 360 arcs to boot if it could run the advanced thrusters i stated above

see FFG.. innovation.. it can be solved without adding more dice luck than this game already has

i don't expect anything to come of this but i feel like i need to vent. i'm beyond frustrated right now as i feel like this game is turning into attack wing.. and if i wanted to play attack wing.. i'd play attack wing

if i don't start to see real innovation to this game soon i'm going to strongly consider selling my s hit and finding another game to play

/end rant

You lost me at "monkeys at FFG."

Please go read KineticOperator's post about turrets, and then maybe try again.

You lost me at "monkeys at FFG."

I can't help but wonder what this originally said lol

You lost me at "monkeys at FFG."

Huh... I didn't get that far.

Oh, and I bought Imperial Aces yesterday.

You lost me at "monkeys at FFG."

you're absolutely right.. i meant nothing by it.. that was purely out of frustration because it's not like i can actually talk with them personally

You should spend your pilot's lives a little more carelessly, Imperial player. You want to take out a turret? Tired of turrets beating you up?

Disregard Academy Pilot's life. Throw him and his friends at the enemy. After all, a turret can only shoot one of them.

Your problem is that you don't play Imperial enough.

Yeah, I didn't get to this monkeys part either. Stopped when I realized it was another "I hate turrets" thread.
This one is only a one shot thing. Two at the most. Suck it up and stay out of range.

Yeah, that would be awesome if they added something like the aforementioned 'Advanced Thrusters' as Interceptors are my favorite ship too.

You lost me at "monkeys at FFG."

He lost me there....

so to fix the interceptor to see more play i propose an idea, how about a 0-2 point modification that adds 1,2 or 3 agility to the interceptor that is outside the primary firing arc of the ship that's firing at it and call it something like "advanced thrusters"..

see FFG.. innovation.. it can be solved without adding more dice luck than this game already has

I get where he's coming from.

But he's playing the wrong faction. Start flying A-Wings and so on, if you can't swarm effectively as per Imperial squadrons do, don't bother playing Imperial.

You lost me at "monkeys at FFG."

I can't help but wonder what this originally said lol

It originally said ' Monkeys at FFG? Really?'

1. We don't know the full rules for the Debris tokens. So, it is a little early to decry their inclusion as wasted. Especially as they appear to be larger than Asteroids. I think your hopes may have been too high, as I think FFG wants there to be a choice between Asteroids and Debris, rather than having one be better than the other.

2. Keep in mind, you are complaining about ONE ship being able to have the HLC turret (which comes with a fairly big blind spot) and ONE pilot being able to shoot twice outside it's arc. One costs an additional 12 pts to add to the YT-2400 of your choice. The other requires you to run Torpedoes on a B-wing, which hasn't exactly been the ideal upgrade. As for the Decimator, the 0 Agi makes it a rather easy target.

3. You complain about the luck of the dice, but propose adding more dice into the mix. I suggest you learn to trust FFG in their designs. I have found that these things really are playtested, and just takes a bit of adjustment.

The disadvantage to most turretted ships is their high point cost. I look at it like you sacrifice whole ship just for the ability to shoot with a turret... the Falcon and VT-49 EASILY cost 2 ships, possibly 3. Even an HWK outfitted to properly fire a Blaster Turret ends up costing a good amount, and that only has range 2.

The one thing that DOES seem unbalanced to me are Ion Turrets. You can run 4 Y-Wings with Ion Turrets and still have 8 points left over. Stuff like that ruins games for me, but that's just my gripe.

You should spend your pilot's lives a little more carelessly, Imperial player. You want to take out a turret? Tired of turrets beating you up?

Disregard Academy Pilot's life. Throw him and his friends at the enemy. After all, a turret can only shoot one of them.

Your problem is that you don't play Imperial enough.

clearly you don't play imperial enough.. it's all i play.. and i want other options than running 4-6 academies to throw carelessly into the fray

i'd like a chance to run something that will reward my flying skills.. not my dice throwing skills

Check the new B-wing card again. It is a 360 Torpedo ability only, not I repeat, not another 360 HLC.

It is a small mercy but I think she can only carry 2 Torpedoes.

Check the card again. It is a 360 Torpedo ability only, not I repeat, not another 360 HLC.

i know what it says.. but it's still another 360 option

i'd like a chance to run something that will reward my flying skills.. not my dice throwing skills

But your fix is rolling more dice??? I'm not sure I'm following your thinking here...

The Falcon's the only undodgeable arc. Nera gets one shot with her ordnance and it has fixed Range bands. HWKs and Y-wings can't shoot at Range 3. The Outrider either has a measly two dice (bearing in mind how expensive it is) or blind bands Interceptors can hide in.

You can still dodge arcs, they're just different shapes.

Too bad i must log out soon, cause this thread should be a lot entertaining!

1. We don't know the full rules for the Debris tokens. So, it is a little early to decry their inclusion as wasted. Especially as they appear to be larger than Asteroids. I think your hopes may have been too high, as I think FFG wants there to be a choice between Asteroids and Debris, rather than having one be better than the other.

2. Keep in mind, you are complaining about ONE ship being able to have the HLC turret (which comes with a fairly big blind spot) and ONE pilot being able to shoot twice outside it's arc. One costs an additional 12 pts to add to the YT-2400 of your choice. The other requires you to run Torpedoes on a B-wing, which hasn't exactly been the ideal upgrade. As for the Decimator, the 0 Agi makes it a rather easy target.

3. You complain about the luck of the dice, but propose adding more dice into the mix. I suggest you learn to trust FFG in their designs. I have found that these things really are playtested, and just takes a bit of adjustment.

i never complained about the luck of the dice. but that the game is going that way with the 360 arcs

dice luck is something i'm happy to have.. but when it starts to trump over flying skills.. then i begin to wonder.. what's the point?

Here you go.

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/110450-turrets-are-easy-mode/

I am going to have six base Interceptors (got four now) and six Aces Interceptors (got two now) after I take care of some other projects like getting my Game Parlor upgraded.

I will have ten Interceptors before years end, and I love all of the ships in this game.

Instead of crying, learn better flying.

Yes you did, right here:

see FFG.. innovation.. it can be solved without adding more dice luck than this game already has

The disadvantage to most turretted ships is their high point cost. I look at it like you sacrifice whole ship just for the ability to shoot with a turret... the Falcon and VT-49 EASILY cost 2 ships, possibly 3. Even an HWK outfitted to properly fire a Blaster Turret ends up costing a good amount, and that only has range 2.

The one thing that DOES seem unbalanced to me are Ion Turrets. You can run 4 Y-Wings with Ion Turrets and still have 8 points left over. Stuff like that ruins games for me, but that's just my gripe.

see the y wings problem is that they have the range 3 blind spot and they are slow.. so 4 ys with ions are still easily beatable if you know how to play against them

but when you have a large ship base with what will likely be a good enough maneuver dial and the ability to barrel roll to boot with a hlc strapped to its back.. i find it hard and near impossible to make fun lists with interceptors and instead have to put 60 points throwing in 5 academies.. that leaves me.. what.. 40 points to innovate with? some game plan.. talk about predictable list building

There's a counterstrategy to everything.

Falcon, sit at Range 3, focus fire with multiple ships and let its low agility be its downfall. Outmaneuver EPT means no agility at all. VT-49 moreso, it has no agility at all.

HWK/Y-wing: All turret upgrades are Range 1-2. Range 3 arcdodge is still arcdodge. Outmaneuver once again brutalises them.
Nera, her ordnance is one shot and has limited rangebands. Just have the locked ship avoid that band and the forward arc.

Outrider, without the title it's a two dice turret, easily dodged. With the title it's a Range 1 only attack that's easier to dodge than a normal arc, an HLC with a R1 donut hull where it's blind, or an ion turret that caps at one damage a turn.

but when you have a large ship base with what will likely be a good enough maneuver dial and the ability to barrel roll to boot with a hlc strapped to its back..

HLC is Range 2-3. Get any part of your base into Range 1 and it cannot shoot you at all, no matter which angle you approach. HLC Outrider can be outmaneuvered with no more than jousting.