I generally stay away from the falcon and ion turrets/weapons and their platforms (I've never even flown a y wing) because I feel it takes away from the fun of maneuvering for both me and my opponent. Plus as a mainly imperial player, ions and 360 shooting takes away some of their main advantage of being generally more maneuverable. Plus, combined with blocking tactics or using Anti pursuit lasers it gets even less enjoyable for the player against it. With ion torpedoes incoming and ion pulse missiles, almost every ship will have ion weapon capabilities through ordinance, cannons, or turrets. Plus wave 5 adds two more 360 shooters. Are turrets and ion weaponry important to the game? Or do others share my opinion and generally stay away from 360 turrets and ion weapons to preserve the fun of maneuvering, and wish that wave 5 wasn't all 360 shooters?

I would say that from the champs lists, turrets are fairly costed and add another dimension to the game.

TBH without them I would question whether named interceptors were too good, a well flown High PS interceptor (or Phantom for that matter) are nearly impossible to focus fire on with a typical rebel fleet. if you do split your firing arcs your giving up one of your best assets.

Turrets also are currently only on 1 agility ships or less (including the Decimator but not the Outrider with its reduced attack value) and can be focus fired into space dust.

I like the fact that its an answer to super agile ships because without turrets everyone would only fly super agile ships and there would be no diversity.

It creates a nice rock-paper-scissors meta-game which ensures that no one list is without weaknesses.

You know this sounds like "the squadrons I favor are really hit hard by turrets and ion weapons so I think EVERYONE should hate them so I can have an easier time winning" thread?

There may be days I like to try doing a bunch of fancy flying but then there are days I want to be lazy and just float around blasting things. I don't see any problems with turrets or ion weapons.

Perhaps the thing we should complain about it the insane maneuverability the Phantom gets because of it's cloak or the things a PTL Interceptor can do. Maybe you don't have fun flying again Turrets and Ions but maybe I don't have fun flying against things that don't want to "play nice" and let me shoot at them. The thing you HATE happens to counter the thing you may LOVE while other people HATE to play against that thing you love.

I generally stay away from the falcon and ion turrets/weapons and their platforms (I've never even flown a y wing) because I feel it takes away from the fun of maneuvering for both me and my opponent.

First, if you've never flown a Y-Wing or other turreted vehicle how can you judge how said ship type effects the relative fun of the game for you and your opponent?

Plus as a mainly imperial player, ions and 360 shooting takes away some of their main advantage of being generally more maneuverable.

No, way. You mean they balanced the game or something?

Or do others share my opinion and generally stay away from 360 turrets and ion weapons to preserve the fun of maneuvering, and wish that wave 5 wasn't all 360 shooters?

Easy one. No.

Turrets do, to an extent, limit manueverability. They change the game.

Saying Ions do is nonsense. Board control, and how to minimize its damage to your squad is an excellent and thrilling process.

Beyond that, I just don't care about Turrets that much. They're annoying, but every ship with a turret has one huge issue. It's either the fact Turret weapons are very meh, or that they cost 40% of your force for a single ship.

Yeah, Rebels kinda need these weapons to counter the relative ease with which Imperials can dance out of the arcs of their slow-yet-superior firepower.

You know this sounds like "the squadrons I favor are really hit hard by turrets and ion weapons so I think EVERYONE should hate them so I can have an easier time winning" thread?

There may be days I like to try doing a bunch of fancy flying but then there are days I want to be lazy and just float around blasting things. I don't see any problems with turrets or ion weapons.

Perhaps the thing we should complain about it the insane maneuverability the Phantom gets because of it's cloak or the things a PTL Interceptor can do. Maybe you don't have fun flying again Turrets and Ions but maybe I don't have fun flying against things that don't want to "play nice" and let me shoot at them. The thing you HATE happens to counter the thing you may LOVE while other people HATE to play against that thing you love.

A fair point, but I never said I HATE them, or that they should be removed altogether. I simply don't enjoy playing them myself due to the fact that in my opinion they take some fun out of the game for myself and others, and wondered if other people felt the same way. I was also wondering how people feel about wave 5 adding even more to turrets and ion weapons.

I generally stay away from the falcon and ion turrets/weapons and their platforms (I've never even flown a y wing) because I feel it takes away from the fun of maneuvering for both me and my opponent.

You know this sounds like "the squadrons I favor are really hit hard by turrets and ion weapons so I think EVERYONE should hate them so I can have an easier time winning" thread?

There may be days I like to try doing a bunch of fancy flying but then there are days I want to be lazy and just float around blasting things. I don't see any problems with turrets or ion weapons.

Perhaps the thing we should complain about it the insane maneuverability the Phantom gets because of it's cloak or the things a PTL Interceptor can do. Maybe you don't have fun flying again Turrets and Ions but maybe I don't have fun flying against things that don't want to "play nice" and let me shoot at them. The thing you HATE happens to counter the thing you may LOVE while other people HATE to play against that thing you love.

A fair point, but I never said I HATE them, or that they should be removed altogether. I simply don't enjoy playing them myself due to the fact that in my opinion they take some fun out of the game for myself and others, and wondered if other people felt the same way. I was also wondering how people feel about wave 5 adding even more to turrets and ion weapons.

Once again, how do you know how fun they are or if they make the game any less fun for you and your opponent if you've never flown one?

For me, a huge part of this game is planning my moves to be outside of my enemies firing arc, while at the same time positionng myself to be in the correct range and angle to attack them.

Ion cannons don't really affect this. You get ironed, you get a "status effect" (kinda like "stun" or "poison" in other games). It sucks, but I think it's still a pretty fun part of the game, and can add a lot of strategy.

Turrets, on the other hand... Not so much. You could close your eyes, spin that dial, and as long as you don't fly off the edge or land on an asteroid, if they can shoot you, you can shoot them. It removes any kind of maneuvering strategy.

Bottom line? Turrets take away a huge part of the game for me.

So I don't fly them.

But that's a personal thing. I don't expect every other player to play the same way.

It's kind of like using a rocket launcher in a shooter video game.

Does it take skill? Nope.

But I can't really expect every other player to feel the same way.

A fair point, but I never said I HATE them, or that they should be removed altogether. I simply don't enjoy playing them myself due to the fact that in my opinion they take some fun out of the game for myself and others, and wondered if other people felt the same way. I was also wondering how people feel about wave 5 adding even more to turrets and ion weapons.

It's true that you never mentioned HATE but when threads like this start I believe that is strongly assumed and I guess that's why I went down that path.

Just like in real life how you ask a question can make a BIG difference on the kinds of responses you get. If you ask what people think of playing with Turret type weapons or Ion Weapons you can get a wide variety of responses. Start out by asking if saying they "take the fun away" and you're introducing a big bias. Follow up with the rest of the original post and you've set turrets and ions up a horrible things which instantly turns any kind of reasonable discussion hostile right from the beginning.

As for Wave 5 we may have seen it introducing a couple large ships with 360 degrees of primary weapon coverage and the ability to equip cannons. We still have a lot of unknown information coming.

A friend of mine has never gotten to use a bomber or Firespray in a game because I always ion/blast the **** out of it as soon as possible.

Win or lose this makes me happy.

I generally stay away from the falcon and ion turrets/weapons and their platforms (I've never even flown a y wing) because I feel it takes away from the fun of maneuvering for both me and my opponent.

You know this sounds like "the squadrons I favor are really hit hard by turrets and ion weapons so I think EVERYONE should hate them so I can have an easier time winning" thread?

There may be days I like to try doing a bunch of fancy flying but then there are days I want to be lazy and just float around blasting things. I don't see any problems with turrets or ion weapons.

Perhaps the thing we should complain about it the insane maneuverability the Phantom gets because of it's cloak or the things a PTL Interceptor can do. Maybe you don't have fun flying again Turrets and Ions but maybe I don't have fun flying against things that don't want to "play nice" and let me shoot at them. The thing you HATE happens to counter the thing you may LOVE while other people HATE to play against that thing you love.

A fair point, but I never said I HATE them, or that they should be removed altogether. I simply don't enjoy playing them myself due to the fact that in my opinion they take some fun out of the game for myself and others, and wondered if other people felt the same way. I was also wondering how people feel about wave 5 adding even more to turrets and ion weapons.

Once again, how do you know how fun they are or if they make the game any less fun for you and your opponent if you've never flown one?

I cant speak for everyone, but I've flown against them and they make the game less enjoyable for myself, and so i'm guessing for others as well. Plus I have flown as and against turreted HWK's and the falcon so I can speak for turrets in general, and my opinion of them.

Well, honestly I'm not so much interested in the VT-49's turret as its 3 crew slots, and I look forward to trying to figure out new and interesting combos for it. That turret will come at the cost of agility. Not sure how keen I am on a ship that isn't capable of evading. Something tells me those 16 hitpoints are going to go away in about 3-4 shots. But I can't want for another ship to be able to carry things like Mercenary Copilot or any one of the myriad new crew coming out.

I can understand your point OP, you feel turrets don't jive with what you specifically get out of this game. I understand that, it's the same reason I fly Imperials. But also, I don't think not having them would make this game good. After all, one of my favorite things to do is bear down on a squad of cheap y-wings with turrets and rip them to pieces round by round. Have you ever seen what Interceptors do to a Y-Wing when they attack one in force? It's like if you crossed sharks with pirañas and dropped them into a water park... and it's beautiful. Not having turreted ships would deny us that fun.

A fair point, but I never said I HATE them, or that they should be removed altogether. I simply don't enjoy playing them myself due to the fact that in my opinion they take some fun out of the game for myself and others, and wondered if other people felt the same way. I was also wondering how people feel about wave 5 adding even more to turrets and ion weapons.

It's true that you never mentioned HATE but when threads like this start I believe that is strongly assumed and I guess that's why I went down that path.

Just like in real life how you ask a question can make a BIG difference on the kinds of responses you get. If you ask what people think of playing with Turret type weapons or Ion Weapons you can get a wide variety of responses. Start out by asking if saying they "take the fun away" and you're introducing a big bias. Follow up with the rest of the original post and you've set turrets and ions up a horrible things which instantly turns any kind of reasonable discussion hostile right from the beginning.

As for Wave 5 we may have seen it introducing a couple large ships with 360 degrees of primary weapon coverage and the ability to equip cannons. We still have a lot of unknown information coming.

I understand what your saying, and I never intended to make the thread full of hostile arguments and responses. I am simply asking for others opinion and if it is similar to my own.

It's kind of like using a rocket launcher in a shooter video game.

Does it take skill? Nope.

But it can be truly glorious.

The Outrider is likely to be the only 3 range Turret Ship I run. I may buy two. They look like fun. But Ions are fantastic.

That said, YT's require being able to arc dodge with a big ship. That takes some skill. And you have to be clever to fly against them as well. They are not a ship that wants you behind them.(One of the reasons Expert Handling is so popular on them.

How’s this for a laugh. I fly a 5-ship list that includes Kyle Katarn in a fully-maxed Moldy Crow with Ion Turret. The other four ships are Z-95s with missiles. So, I have my support ship (that one that makes sure my other ships don’t get blasted into space dust) and my agile and fast fighters. Does this mean I’m not having fun?

What about my HSF list supported by a pair of Ion-packing Y-Wings? Is that not fun for me, either?

I find it funny that so many folks on here continually decry the HWK as almost useless and not worth buying or using, but then a turret discussion comes up again, and suddenly the HWK is a master of raining death down upon hapless TIE fighters. The Y-Wing isn't held in much higher esteem, other than it's general tankiness of high HP and shields and always derided for it's lack of movement options.

Which is it?

Turrets only shoot out to Range 2, not 3. Equip some HLC or missiles/torps and you're golden against the HWK and Y-Wing.
In the number of turns it will take two or three properly flown RG squints with Outmaneuver to chew up a HWK, Y-Wing or YT1300?

Tournament list size is *still* only 100 points. It's not like the addition of all these other 360-degree firing options will suddenly change how many ships someone can bring to the fight. It may, however, force changes to tactics and squad builds.

The biggest reason my HWK will chew up so many ships in a match? It's only a "support ship" and doesn't get targeted until at least halfway through the battle after it's already ripped so many other ships to shreds. If my opponent brings a HWK to the fight, it's the first thing I go for. Support ship indeed.

I love HWKs. I've never lost against one before.

Y-wings are okay, but I really don't like range 1-3 primary turrets like the Falcon. It definitely takes away from the game when they are around.

There's nothing that can be done about it now though, and it would be beyond childish to try and belittle someone for using them in a game so there's not much point discussing it.

There's nothing that can be done about it now

Counter to what people have been saying about turret ships and Phantoms, I've found the Phantom to be an amazing anti-YT ship. That and the Defender.

For me, a huge part of this game is planning my moves to be outside of my enemies firing arc, while at the same time positionng myself to be in the correct range and angle to attack them.

Ion cannons don't really affect this. You get ironed, you get a "status effect" (kinda like "stun" or "poison" in other games). It sucks, but I think it's still a pretty fun part of the game, and can add a lot of strategy.

Turrets, on the other hand... Not so much. You could close your eyes, spin that dial, and as long as you don't fly off the edge or land on an asteroid, if they can shoot you, you can shoot them. It removes any kind of maneuvering strategy.

Bottom line? Turrets take away a huge part of the game for me.

So I don't fly them.

But that's a personal thing. I don't expect every other player to play the same way.

It's kind of like using a rocket launcher in a shooter video game.

Does it take skill? Nope.

But I can't really expect every other player to feel the same way.

The Falcon is half your list, if you load it up to be useful. Taking it limits your overall firepower in total, in exchange for being able to cover more of the board, with again a single ship's firing arc. Sure it's 'easier' in that regard but you're paying for that ease. If you're up against one there's all sorts of things you can do to deal with it.

Asteroids stop it from firing, and it's larger base makes them harder to avoid; learn to how set up, both the asteroids and your initial deployment to force them to come into play.

Get close, and keep shooting. It's going to get get 4 dice, against one of your ships. How many extra dice are you going to be rolling against it, and it's still only one agility. Things like C-3P0 mitigate this to some extent, but roll enough hits and those shields and hull melt away.

Want to corral it's movement? Get an ion token on it. Suddenly, with how far they move with even a 1 forward, the 1 agility YT doesn't just want to avoid rocks, it doesn't want to be facing the wrong direction when that second Ion token falls.

And your rocket launcher analogy doesn't really pan out. I don't remember the rocket launchers in UT or the soldier in TF2 being boring instant win buttons you seem to think the YT is. And no, the AWP in Counter Strike isn't either, if it were I wouldn't be absolutely terrible with it...

Want to corral it's movement? Get an ion token on it. Suddenly, with how far they move with even a 1 forward, the 1 agility YT doesn't just want to avoid rocks, it doesn't want to be facing the wrong direction when that second Ion token falls.

This is one of my favorite things to do.

While I do not play them often, as I have to borrow my friend's to do so...I find I prefer finesse and trying to predict where your opponent will be over the turtle turret approach. That said turrets are like every other system element in the game. They expand options, make you think, and keep the game dynamic which I think is a good thing.

I want this game to continue to grow, evolve and have a long life

Turrents are the worst thing that happened since Jabba thought it's a good idea to throw Luke into Rancor pit