What about altering the rule to where the person without initiative chooses to use his or the opponent's damage deck? It's so sad that people will cheat in this game.

Checking and shuffling your opponent's damage deck is in the rules. Don't feel bad about using it.

I've long suspected that cheating with the damage deck could be done, would rarely be obvious, and will rarely get caught by a trusting opponent. The OP's mention of three Munition Failures showing up at the same time is just terrible luck for the cheater who may have gone the whole tournament without getting busted. It is because of how the damage deck is composed that we always point out why you DO NOT mix multiple decks and is also a primary reason that the deck can/should not change unless FFG is going to do a completely new deck.

When it comes to punishment I think the two may have gotten off easy if they were only banned from tournaments at that one location. Here I'd actually like to see them Blacklisted in the entire area (if not more) for at least a year to reconsider their actions. Even in "friendly" games I'd hope people knew what they did so they could be monitored to see if they are still trying to pull the same BS.

When it comes to checking damage decks I believe it should be done the very first game. At the same time you should also go over your opponent's squadron to make sure everything there is correct when it comes to math and where upgrade are and/or can go. That would still allow someone to "switch" to a doctored deck between games but the chance of getting caught will go up and it still shouldn't prevent a later deck check if needed.

It seem to me that in MTG tournaments each match is a series of three games. The first game in every match must be with the exact same deck although the two later games can use sideboard cards. For those who push sideboards this (3 games/match) is why they don't work for X-Wing. After finishing out a match a player must return his deck to the original configuration before the next match; I believe failure to do so will be a game loss.

I don't want to win badly enough to check. If someone wants to have a rigged damage deck then whatever. If I catch it by them having too many of a particular crit drawn then I'll call it out.

I have no problem allowing my opponent to check my deck were he to ask.

When it comes to "deck stacking" we should remember that it is most effective when flying certain types of squadrons. I mean when you are flying a TIE Swarm how many criticals to you really worry about beyond "Direct Hit"? Along similar lines Determination can become a GREAT card if the number of "pilot" criticals in the damage deck goes up.

At regionals in CA they had 3 TOs at the event. One was going through doing random checks through out the day, caught 2 people with incomplete (not so modified as just missing 2-3 cards) and offered to supplement the decks for the players for the event. There are ways to handle this that work, this one was more on the brutal but efficient level. I think I would of kicked them out for that tournament and then let them in on the next. Then just watching them like a hawk and if another offense was noted, I'm a second chance kind of person unless they already have had one, kick them out indefinitely.

Just ask to check the deck if they aren't cheating they would offer it up no problem, at least in my area. If you find that it needs to be edited call the TO over it is now that persons responsibility to handle it.

Just a different view, maybe mine is unique, but when I attended my local events (1 imdaar, and 1 regional) I usually was just in the middle of finishing my prep to start the game and the clock was already started. Stalling to check decks can make the game run out of time which could be a worse event than resting assured my opponent did or did not cheat.

It would be interesting if the damage deck check was built into the first round where everyone would check their opponents deck prior to the first match, then allow the random checks throughout. This would spot any accidents and intentional cheating in the first round, unless your opponent was sly enough to have 2 decks ready and swap after the first game.

I don't know. adding 5 mins to each game to allow a deck check / hurry up and set up would be nice.

as I don't play tournaments it's a bit of "would or wouldn't do" stuff.

I don't think I would check damage decks, enforce the use of the same templates or switch dice etc. It sets a bit of the tone for the game into a direction I don't like, in particular if it is players checking player. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind - even encourage depending on the level of organization of the tournament - if all games use templates, damage decks and dice provided by the TO. It moves the fairness checking to the TO and is less detrimental to the atmosphere, it provides also a level of structure and style as a nice side effect.

(of course there is a financial aspect to this, so not always an option)

In the Descent 2nd Edition game forum, I made a post titled "Can you have fun even if you aren't winning ...". Apparently there are plenty of people who can't.

Sad.

as a rule, I don't play games I don't like when I'm loosing. Anyone who does that is either insane or very good at the game (or both) to get at least a bit of fun out of it.

Besides, until you actually won at the end of the game you have to be miserable most of your games.

A pity this happened. While I don't foresee myself checking my opponent's damage deck, even at Regionals, I also wouldn't be insulted if my opponent wanted to check mine. That last part is where fights will break out around here.

The TOs can dissuade this by announcing their will be a chance of the matches (random draw at start of each match...roll of a 6 on a d6) to swap damage decks for that match.

The other thing is to learn what is in the deck (part of the game) and if you see something weird...3 strait munitions for example...then ask a TO for a deck check (don't touch the guys deck...leave it to the TOs to determine if a problem exists).

On the other hand..."room mates," meaning they were adults (18+) and not siblings in the same house, its a pretty pathetic life where you have to cheat at a game to derive any sense of self-worth.

I don't condone cheating, but there are some awfully naive people around here.

I am not playing in tournaments, but the story you have shared with us makes me feel bad for the guys that had the fake decks.

Wow... they do not love STAR WARS at all do they.

Disqualifying players for this kind of things is the best way. Banning might be too harsh except if it is not the first time they do it in my opinion, since people can sometimes learn from their errors.

I don't condone cheating, but there are some awfully naive people around here.

What is your point ?

kind of OT but are people THAT hard-up that they want to cheat at X-wing? and for what? a New Z-95 mini? or bragging rights...LOL

No one likes presuming the other guy is a cheater but the fact is some people are so competitive they are willing to over come any moral qualms.

At regionals in CA they had 3 TOs at the event. One was going through doing random checks through out the day, caught 2 people with incomplete (not so modified as just missing 2-3 cards) and offered to supplement the decks for the players for the event. There are ways to handle this that work, this one was more on the brutal but efficient level. I think I would of kicked them out for that tournament and then let them in on the next. Then just watching them like a hawk and if another offense was noted, I'm a second chance kind of person unless they already have had one, kick them out indefinitely.

Just ask to check the deck if they aren't cheating they would offer it up no problem, at least in my area. If you find that it needs to be edited call the TO over it is now that persons responsibility to handle it.

What kicked off the ban for any further tournaments at the location was just only the fact that this incident set the tone for the rest of the tournament.

We all took a break after that development and discussed about it. (Not `cause we are winers but was a great time to take a cigeratte break anyway, and the TO had to see how to re-pair the opponents )

I think the TO had a valid point in saying that he will not make it an "out of the house" issue.

It was meant to be a friendly little tournament with a little price sponsored by the store...

But the mood drastically went down after that and the laughter silenced a bit as well...

That actually, i think, is the main damage they caused... not winning the game with an altered deck.

Both players were new to the store and showed up 1 or 2 times prior to the tournament so no one really knew them.

Or make it part of the registration. Let a correct damage deck be the "ticket" to enter. Or make it mandatory, everyone alwys check your oponents damage deck. This way no one need to feel bad

This has always struck me as a possibility. I wouldn't want to seem like a jerk for asking to see an opponent's damage deck before play, but it's probably a good habit to get into.

There's an easy way to approach the topic. Offer the opponent the opportunity to check your deck, then wait expectantly. If they don't offer you the same courtesy, at that point it's a good idea to ask. If they volunteer it up readily, chances are you don't need to look anyway.

That being said this is really despicable. Hopefully the TO took the opportunity to publicly shame the two players.

I was going to say the same thing.

I typically offer my deck first which sends a clear message.

Its a good way to ask, without having to ask.

next we will be seeing people using a wing dials with the x wing top on it, will catch them out when their wedge does a foreward 5 green.

I've thought a bit about tournament organizers providing the decks used at the tournament itself. Players would have to show they _had_ the decks, but would not be allowed to use their own.

Somewhat tangentially related:

If someone showed up at a tournament with a card that was obviously printed, but was a rules-correct version of a card that had been errata'd, how would people feel about it? What if that card was on top of the incorrect card that has been printed by FF?

I am not playing in tournaments, but the story you have shared with us makes me feel bad for the guys that had the fake decks.

Wow... they do not love STAR WARS at all do they.

they are just good at RP and play their character on the fringe side of things - any good sabacc player has some cards up their sleeves.

At regionals in CA they had 3 TOs at the event. One was going through doing random checks through out the day, caught 2 people with incomplete (not so modified as just missing 2-3 cards) and offered to supplement the decks for the players for the event. There are ways to handle this that work, this one was more on the brutal but efficient level. I think I would of kicked them out for that tournament and then let them in on the next. Then just watching them like a hawk and if another offense was noted, I'm a second chance kind of person unless they already have had one, kick them out indefinitely.

Just ask to check the deck if they aren't cheating they would offer it up no problem, at least in my area. If you find that it needs to be edited call the TO over it is now that persons responsibility to handle it.

What kicked off the ban for any further tournaments at the location was just only the fact that this incident set the tone for the rest of the tournament.

We all took a break after that development and discussed about it. (Not `cause we are winers but was a great time to take a cigeratte break anyway, and the TO had to see how to re-pair the opponents )

I think the TO had a valid point in saying that he will not make it an "out of the house" issue.

It was meant to be a friendly little tournament with a little price sponsored by the store...

But the mood drastically went down after that and the laughter silenced a bit as well...

That actually, i think, is the main damage they caused... not winning the game with an altered deck.

Both players were new to the store and showed up 1 or 2 times prior to the tournament so no one really knew them.

Playing competitvely is one thing, but when you lose trust in other players, or even the store in which the event is held, that's something altogether and it's a horrible those players did that. Now, that's not to say that it's the store's fault, but I think the problem is that it can create this illusion that "those kind of people" play here and that is a **** shame.

I don't condone cheating, but there are some awfully naive people around here.

first as a side note, I don't think you will find anyone actually condoning cheating in public, otherwise they are as bad at cheating as at being a good sportsman.

some might call it naive, I would call it "taking it not too seriously", with "it" being the game and the danger of cheating, in particular in a relative casual community as I have seen so far. Also, as a rule I like to keep the trust for a group of people alive as long as possible and unless I have personal and not accidental reasons to dissuade me I like to keep it that way.

Even in that case, I probably just won't play in those circles any more instead of starting to police games that should be fun, for anything else my free time is just too precious to me.

That is awful.

If I was the TO, I would have their pictures taken and posted here. These guys should be banned from all future tournaments.

I would never play an X-wing game with them, if I see ever them.

I wouldn't put pass them to switch movement dials also - like putting X-wing's movement on a B-wing cover.

Its an inherent design flaw in the deck. The cards are not numbered. Each one should have 1 of 33, 2 of 33, etc. Thatd make it easy to check for cheating and to see if you had all your cards. ARES games does this for its manuver decks for Wings of Glory the game that clearly gave some inspiration to X-Wing.