I'm thinking about including two defenders on a list. I'm thinking;

Ps1 defender x2- 60 points (yikes)

Academy pilot x2- 24 points

Black squadron pilot with squad leader- 16 points.

I don't see as many problems with this list as usual. It has decent attack, decent agility, and decent hull/shield.

Squab leader let's to defenders focus/ tl or the AP's focus/ evade.

What problems am I missing besides the point value of the defenders.

Well the defenders won't be as maneuverable as the ties so either a) you keep the defenders together and the other ties in their own group or b) you keep them all together but limiting the mobility of the ties to match that of the defenders. Other than that you'll be lacking some hp so hopefully your green dice are up to the task. Basically it's going to depend on how you plan on flying them. I would say use the defenders as flankers and keep your ties in a mini swarm. Others might disagree but that's my opinion.

I flew a dual Defender list last night, and went 3-0 with it. Granted, throughout the night my green dice were hot. (Which is great for this list, but not something you can count on obviously)

Whisper

-Advanced Cloaking Device

-Veteran Instincts

Delta Squadron Pilot

Delta Squadron Pilot

-Ion Cannon

(that Ion cannon can be replaced by anything really, didn't get a whole lot of use.)

I keep the two Defenders together, while Whisper dances around the board dodging arcs. It gives the opponent two options. Face off with the Defenders while Whisper flanks you, or try to get a bead on Whisper as she dodges you and the Defenders hit your exposed flank. It worked pretty well.

One guy I faced tried to focus down Whisper to no avail, she is just too darn slippery. After that failed he tried to focus on the Defenders, but by then it was too late. Not sure if it's a very competitive squad, I mostly ran it just because I wanted to try out my new wave 4 ships. Admittedly I had a lot of fun with it. That white 4 k-turn is silly fun.

Delta HLC X2

Jonus seismic charges

2 defenders with HLC supply the punch and Jonus gives rerolls. They get too close drop seismically to make them unhappy.

Today I flew this. It did fairly well, despite poor dice luck:

Rexler Brath + Ion + Outmaneuver

Colonel Vessery + Ion + VI

BST + Wingman + Targeting Computer

I'm still trying to use 2 defenders and still use 4 of more ships.

I'm still trying to use 2 defenders and still use 4 of more ships.

Big mistake, in my opinion, you are paying the points for expensive ships might as well just make it a 3 ship build, You will have more success running it as am "elite" build rather than trying to swarm it. (Yes I know the most you can do with 2 Defenders is a 5 ship build but I believe this is sound advice to many who want to run Defenders)

I've had a lot of fun running the Defender in the few games I've had of it so far. Might think about picking up a third to try the insane PS1 three ship list.

But! The Defender is incredible. Forward 5, White K-Turn, and with barrel roll you won't miss the tight 1-2 so much.

My advice is finding ways to put engine upgrades on them. Then Outmaneuver if possible, or Ion cannons. The defender has a lot of potential to it once you understand its limitations and accept the hefty point cost.

I seem to prefer the Onyx PS 3 @ 32 pts over the Delta PS 1 @ 30.

Any thoughts on that? I would think with the amount of PS 1 and 2 ships flying around that the onyx would be better in the current meta. Even though I feel the current meta is about to severely change.

I seem to prefer the Onyx PS 3 @ 32 pts over the Delta PS 1 @ 30.

Any thoughts on that? I would think with the amount of PS 1 and 2 ships flying around that the onyx would be better in the current meta. Even though I feel the current meta is about to severely change.

I just like the delta because 1. I think Delta sounds cooler than Onyx, 2. I find it easier to fit 2 of them into a list at 30 each than it is to fit 2 Onyx at 32 each

I agree that with all of the PS2s around (my area is mostly rebels) that a 3 does help but you probably won't try arc dodging as much on a Defender so you might as well just take the extra points

Onyx Squadron Pilot + Engine Upgrade x2

Backstabber

Academy Pilot

or

Delta Squadron Pilot + Engine Upgrade x2

Backstabber

Dark Curse

Delta HLC X2

Jonus seismic charges

2 defenders with HLC supply the punch and Jonus gives rerolls. They get too close drop seismically to make them unhappy.

Thats only 98 points. I would either throw Swarm tactics on Jonus or run Jonus with a Torp to increase the alpha strike potential. Could be a very nasty list that still has 18 hit points. I really want to try this one out. If you can try to stay at range 3 you can tear people up.

I'm still trying to use 2 defenders and still use 4 of more ships.

Big mistake, in my opinion, you are paying the points for expensive ships might as well just make it a 3 ship build, You will have more success running it as am "elite" build rather than trying to swarm it. (Yes I know the most you can do with 2 Defenders is a 5 ship build but I believe this is sound advice to many who want to run Defenders)

Defender, defender, Backstabber, Dark curse. Might be the way to go. Put an engine upgrade on each Defender.

I'm still trying to use 2 defenders and still use 4 of more ships.

Big mistake, in my opinion, you are paying the points for expensive ships might as well just make it a 3 ship build, You will have more success running it as am "elite" build rather than trying to swarm it. (Yes I know the most you can do with 2 Defenders is a 5 ship build but I believe this is sound advice to many who want to run Defenders)

I have to disagree. Two power houses in a 4 ship build is the way to go. That said, I thing

Defender, defender, Backstabber, Dark curse. Might be the way to go. Put an engine upgrade on each Defender.

I also think that's the sweet spot, like I posted ealier.

Only reason why I would go with the Onyx over the Delta is if the EPT Predator shows up a lot in your group. One of my friend plan on using Predator on Wedge and he takes him most of the time. That will punish a lot PS1 and 2 ship. The Onyx is just at the right spot to mitigate the effect of Predator.

Switching Dark Curse for a Academy Pilot gives you a good blocker, so it's not that bad. Two Hitter/Tank, a Flanker and a Blocker.

I think that list would inspire me to use a couple Bounty Hunters with Rebel Captive on one, Gunner on the other, and Proton Bombs. Nyuk Nyuk.

I know this is probably a silly list but what do you guys thing about the following

Rexler Brath

-Push the Limit

-Heavy Laser Cannon

-Engine Upgrade

Colonel Vessery

-Wingman

-Ion Cannon

-Ion Pulse Missles

-Engine Upgrade

The idea is pretty straight forward here. Both ships are highly manuverable with the white 4k turns and the rest of the dial in general. Some additional movement with the engine upgrade if necessary to dodge arcs. Using PTL with Rexler to take a focus action and a target lock action, firing with HLC at range 2-3 to get a 100% crit chance on any damage that gets through. Vessery is there with Wingman to pick off any stress that Rexler takes from doing this, allowing it to be done often while k-turning around and boost/rolling occasionally.

The ion stuff is there so that once they end up behind someone, they have a chance at staying behind them until they're dead.

What do you guys think? I haven't tested it yet at all.

Vessery needs someone with a Target Lock that's not going to spend it before he gets a chance to shoot. That somebody is not Rexler Brath, as he is PS 8.

Delta+HLC

Onyx+HLC

Doom shuttle

That's a pretty fun list. Keep the onyx with the shuttle and run the Delta outside

Why not go three ps1 defenders with a few upgrades?

Vessery needs someone with a Target Lock that's not going to spend it before he gets a chance to shoot. That somebody is not Rexler Brath, as he is PS 8.

Oh, you're right... hmm I didn't realize that... hmmmmm :/

Well the defenders won't be as maneuverable as the ties so either a) you keep the defenders together and the other ties in their own group or b) you keep them all together but limiting the mobility of the ties to match that of the defenders. Other than that you'll be lacking some hp so hopefully your green dice are up to the task. Basically it's going to depend on how you plan on flying them. I would say use the defenders as flankers and keep your ties in a mini swarm. Others might disagree but that's my opinion.

Disagree completely.

None of that squad needs to fly together to be effective. (but do remmeber to use focus firing).

Defenders make great vanguard entrants cuz they can tank some initial shots, and then they make good flankers afterward.

realistic, you suffer from simply having a bunch of low PS ships that can get easily outmaneuvered by things like Phantoms.

What about this:

Rexler Brath (37)
Push the Limit (3)
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
Assault Missiles (5)
Engine Upgrade (4)

Darth Vader (29)
Wingman (2)
Assault Missiles (5)
Engine Upgrade (4)

Total: 96

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Again, I know it's unorthodox and a bit silly.

The idea here is that Vader and Rexler can take 2 actions every turn. Rexler can also take red 2's with Vader with out being stuck with the stress afterwards. This gives Rexler the ability to fly around in constant close formation with Vader having the ability to take focus + locked shots consistently.

Colonel Vessery + HLC + stealth device (45)

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)

Captain Jonus + Swarm Tactics (24)

Total 99

Jonus helps the HLC and gives the delta pilot skill 6, so you are all sixes. He can also take the target locks vessery needs. Also he draws the attention away from vessery, because he is so helpful all around. Went 4 out of 5, with the 1 match was just me flying bad and being unlucky.

I know this is probably a silly list but what do you guys thing about the following

Rexler Brath

-Push the Limit

-Heavy Laser Cannon

-Engine Upgrade

Colonel Vessery

-Wingman

-Ion Cannon

-Ion Pulse Missles

-Engine Upgrade

The idea is pretty straight forward here. Both ships are highly manuverable with the white 4k turns and the rest of the dial in general. Some additional movement with the engine upgrade if necessary to dodge arcs. Using PTL with Rexler to take a focus action and a target lock action, firing with HLC at range 2-3 to get a 100% crit chance on any damage that gets through. Vessery is there with Wingman to pick off any stress that Rexler takes from doing this, allowing it to be done often while k-turning around and boost/rolling occasionally.

The ion stuff is there so that once they end up behind someone, they have a chance at staying behind them until they're dead.

What do you guys think? I haven't tested it yet at all.\

munitions failure ruins your day

I saw a cool list somewhere (I forget) with Vessery/HLC, Onyx/HLC, and Mauler Mithel with Squad Leader. Mithel passes an action to the Onyx to allow a late Target Lock. So Vess has a Focus/TL with his HLC, Onyx has Focus/TL with his HLC, and Mithel hangs out in back. Once everything gets close, the Defenders K-turn, and the enemy squad has 4-dice attacks coming at them from all sides. It's sort of like the Jonus w/ 2xDefender/HLC, but works at range 1-2 instead of range 1. The buffing unit is weaker, but you have more flexibility in positioning, along with higher PS from the Defenders.