If we get another weird experimental Tie variant in Wave 9, instead of the beautiful Assault Gunboat, I will weep.

If I had to bet, I'd put my money on FFG doing the Special Forces Tie Fighter from TFA.

One of the designers Alex Davy did say on the Scum and Villainy podcast that the Imperials don't need another 2atk 3agi ship, which sort of rules out the tie hunter as well.

However he also drew parallels between the gunboat and the punisher and bomber. Which begs the question: which ship if not these options will the imps get?

Royal Guard Interceptors are also hyperspace capable

One of the designers Alex Davy did say on the Scum and Villainy podcast that the Imperials don't need another 2atk 3agi ship, which sort of rules out the tie hunter as well.

However he also drew parallels between the gunboat and the punisher and bomber. Which begs the question: which ship if not these options will the imps get?

In any case, all the 2 Attack 3 Agility TIEs we have are still more different between each other in actions, dial and upgrades than between the TIE Bomber and the TIE Punisher.

I will not question again the choice of the TIE Punisher regarding its popularity (by far one of the the TIE ships with fewest appearances in the lore. No, really) as the Wave 7 ship for the Empire, but the total lack of distinction between it and the Bomber. Only Deathrain and Redline's abilities bring anything remotely interesting to the game, and those are two pilots that could have perfectly worked as TIE Bomber pilots.

I don't get what Alex and Frank were attempting to achieve with the Punisher, especially when they said several times that they choose which ships to bring to the game depending on if they have something unique, new or exciting to bring with them.

Even if they follow the same path as sometimes they did with Scum and limit themselves to mimic ships from other factions (the Kihraxz is the Scum's X-Wing, the G1A is the Scum's B-Wing, the Hound is the Scum's shuttle, etc), the Gunboat could just be the Empire's B-Wing with some tweaks. A role that nobody fills in the Empire currently and actually would be close enough to the lore.

But the Punisher? The Punisher is the Empire's TIE Bomber, again.

I'll be honest we've covered the gunboat stats, reasoning, fanboysim to death over 88 pages.

I'm posting here because it's an on topic subject, and the other subjects on this board are going to cause me an eye injury from rolling my eyes so much.

I'll always want the Gunboat, because I come from the X-wing series of games. TIE Fighter is still regarded by many as the greatest space flight sim of all time. This is not an exaggeration. This is pure fact. Seriously, someone go google "best space flight sims" it's gonna be there. More than once in the #1 slot.

The Avenger is a great ship, but it's a main line replacement for the Advanced X1, which we have so.. we need it less.

Gunboat though...

But the gun and especially the missile boat are considered by many players as the worst part, the power creep part of the game, the thing they invented to top even avenger and defender. And besides that, the Avenger is together with the defender the most awesome design and most iconic ship from TIE-Fighter.

So I am all for getting the Avenger first a proper one with its own unique model and design.

Missile boat is totally power creep.

The gunboat is not at all. It's just the empire's y-wing.

Even when their names are similar, they are totally different ships!

For what it's worth, the missile boat should just have like, one attack die. If you're running Missile Boats, you need to run ordnance, which will make them more expensive and limit how many you can run.

But they should be able to take absolutely any kind of ordnance that's not a turret or cannon, and it should naturally duplicate it because it had an insane capacity.

So extra munitions will give you sodding four shots with that weapon. Maybe three for balance purposes. Then pop guidance chips onto the thing and you have a missile monster.

Glass cannon, though. Agile but not amazingly well armored or shielded. You really shouldn't be able to run more than three well loaded ones.

Gunboat though...

But the gun and especially the missile boat are considered by many players as the worst part, the power creep part of the game, the thing they invented to top even avenger and defender.

Who are these people and did they ever actually play X-Wing?

The Gunboat was most definitely not a power creep on the Avenger and Defender. It was basically an Imperial Y-Wing, if we are looking at any kind of comparison.

Not to mention that would be impossible, since the Gunboat first appeared in the X-Wing game, while the Avenger and Defender didn't come into the game until a year later in TIE Fighter...

To address the concerns on power creep, I believe Alex put it forward best in the Nova (or was it Scum & Villainy?) podcast: the initial power scales were already hinged strongly in favour of the tie fighter who can and does still make top tourney lists (academy spam, crack blacks). This has, to some extent, been balanced out by developments since then.

The only real power creep since then was the Phantom which made everyone gasp/think/cry. The cloak change was a handy fix to that and the only retroactive 'nerf' they've done.

In terms of role, I strongly disagree with Alex that the assault gunboat is a bomber. In Tie fighter you were forced to fly it as a multi role ship, turning it into a hulled up tie by diverting shields to engines or having a specific cannon or ordnance layout to do a particular mission. In all cases, the gunboat was inferior to dedicated ships: ties flew better, bombers/missileboats ordnance dumped better. The beauty is it could do all of these albeit half heartedly.

I used to think like you all: that the assault gunboat was the imperial y wing. Now I disagree. Having seen the jump master and its ability to take a variety of upgrades, I see the assault gunboat, done right, as a small base version off the jump master.

Funnily enough the punisher is most akin to the missile boat. Though discrepancies exist (no slam, not agile, 2atk rather than 1) it nonetheless fulfils the role sufficiently for missile boats not to be needed.

@Azrapse yes and no: Vader, fel and even the inquisitor are all pretty much set to do the same thing. The tie fo and tie basic are fairly similar also. The bomber and punisher are just cheaper/pricier versions of the same thing. The imperials really do need something that adds options that aren't simply "another PS8+" ace with cool combat text. Wave 8 has seen this with Baffelos and Aces promises deadeye Bombers but even more viable alternatives would be great too. And I also don't think that a Y clone would the imperials or the gunboat justice.

Which leads me back to the punisher. I wasn't overly keen that the laziest design in the laziest rts was included and find the ship abhorrent and, I suspect, soon redundant with aces. But hey... One fugly dud among an entire range isn't a bad record.

Hyperdrive upgrade should be free on all ships except TIE Fighters, Bombers and Interceptors. These would cost 2 to have that upgrade. There. That's your list.

That's also charging TIE Fighters, Bombers and Interceptors 2 points for absolutely no reason outside of fluff. Which is not how game balance works.

Whatever the Hyperdrive upgrade does, you charge the appropriate points for it, and just don't let the ships that didn't have them, have them.

"Which is nonsense. The Punisher has Boost, a System slot and moderately more survivability. That's a fairly significant distinction."

It's a tie bomber with more bomby bits duct taped on.

"Which is nonsense. The Punisher has Boost, a System slot and moderately more survivability. That's a fairly significant distinction."

It's a tie bomber with more bomby bits duct taped on.

This is the Empire, not the Rebellion! WE HAVE FUNDING!

It's a non budget bomber that looks like a budget bomber. The polished turd of the meta.

... and yet some people feel that these beauty's no longer belong in the game.

FFG is prolly never going to make the other Large Base EU ships.

I love the Decimator. I have always loved the Decimator. If FFG didn't have one, I would no doubt have a Mel's Decimator.

I love the Decimator. I have always loved the Decimator. If FFG didn't have one, I would no doubt have a Mel's Decimator.

I know right... and IMO super BAMF'ing LBS SCUMies that are not Bounty Hunters... are ALWAYS COOL too!

My headcanon has my Stormtroopers and TIE pilots basically being Starship troopers (that is to say military service in exchange for suffrage). And doing their **** duty.

My headcanon has my Rebels being outgunned, outnumbered, desperate but truly believing that they are doing the right thing.

I have scum models, but I've never actually played them.

They are more for my guests/collection.

I love all three... but it is all cool no matter what you collect in my book.

... and yet some people feel that these beauty's no longer belong in the game.

FFG is prolly never going to make the other Large Base EU ships.

I don't care how good new Large base ships are, Give me a Decimator, OR GIVE ME DEATH! IMPERIAL TO THE END!!

edit: but seriously, it's a great ship, and fun to fly.

FFG is prolly never going to make the other Large Base EU ships.

Oh, come on Joe. You know that ain't true.

You'll get your big Hutt beasties eventually. And a Scum Dustbuster to go with them.

FFG is prolly never going to make the other Large Base EU ships.

Oh, come on Joe. You know that ain't true.

You'll get your big Hutt beasties eventually. And a Scum Dustbuster to go with them.

But I ain't holding my breath waitin for 'em!

But I ain't holding my breath waitin for 'em!

I know, and it's incredibly tempting to do the same. I could quite easily pick up a couple of TIE Punisher pilot cards/base tiles for 99p each and then proxy a third party Gunboat on them...

...but I still have faith. Faith in FFG, that they will deliver.

FFG is prolly never going to make the other Large Base EU ships.

Oh, come on Joe. You know that ain't true.

You'll get your big Hutt beasties eventually. And a Scum Dustbuster to go with them.

But I ain't holding my breath waitin for 'em!

Considering Scum already have 3(4) large base ships in the JM5K, IG-2000, Hounds Tooth and Firespray, he may be waiting for a while.

I agree though, although the YT-2000 would also fit with the Rebels, the Otana should really be a Scum ship, because who wouldn't want to fly Ace and Aeron with Emon?