12 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

Yeah. I think costing on Barrage will have to keep being tweaked. For a generic, 7 pts to upgrade your attack 4+ times is more than enough. I'd venture a guess that most of the time you don't even use all the charges.

But then Boats can reload.

So yeah.

SLAM isn't for their offense in this case. Just use it to get out of the way and come back around. It's what every t65 tries to do anyway by closing the foils...but not as effectively.

I guess all I mean is that in an edition when almost every small-base ship has an easy way to shimmy or shake one way or another, being almost entirely without that kind of action is a disadvantage. Now, having a really giant bucket of stats from five 3*/2/4/3 ships can overcome those disadvantages. It'll be a mistake to think the list will be really predictable, since one of these can easily SLAM out for a surprise block or such, but it doesn't have tools for surprise movement which allow them to also attack.

Seems like the list has a high potential to be outflown. But having 5 T-70s worth of stats can make up for that.

I hesitate to call it an interesting list, because it's obviously a little boring. But seems like something that might have implications.

Saw this on a stream last night and it looked interesting.

I’m not sold on Soontir with no bid, and I think i’d downgrade the Rho to a Nu to give both A/SLAM, but I’m nowhere near as accomplished as the person flying it.

Thoughts?

Quote

(32) Nu Squadron Pilot [Alpha-class Star Wing]
(0) Xg-1 Assault Configuration
(5) Ion Cannon
Points: 37

(35) Rho Squadron Pilot [Alpha-class Star Wing]
(0) Xg-1 Assault Configuration
(5) Ion Cannon
(3) Intimidation
Points: 43

(54) "Whisper" [TIE/ph Phantom]
(5) Juke
(6) Afterburners
Points: 65

(52) Soontir Fel [TIE Interceptor]
(2) Predator
Points: 54

Total points: 199

Soontir and Whisper would rather follow and dodge behind two ion turret Y-Wings.... Gunboats just don't. I'm not sure why, they just don't. If Aggressors were equivalent in durability to Y's somehow, then that list would work, IMO.

Round starts about 1 hour 30 into this vid. It’s worth a watch! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B1yusu4Mqco

I am not sure that the opponent in that match brought his best game to the table. He overlapped asteroids and his own ships all the time, often throwing naked dice and little else.
I don't think it's a fair display of the potential of the gunboat.

On the other hand they were both undefeated by the time they got there... it had heated Resistance Aces, Rebel Han and scum tie swarm to get there.

Meh, if you don’t like it you don’t like it. Just thought it was an interesting concept to share.

22 minutes ago, Estarriol said:

On the other hand they were both undefeated by the time they got there... it had heated Resistance Aces, Rebel Han and scum tie swarm to get there.

Meh, if you don’t like it you don’t like it. Just thought it was an interesting concept to share.

Sorry, I think I didn't correctly express what I was trying to say.
The squad list is intriguing: two ionizing gunboats setting up targets for two aces to hit them hard.
I just think the other player played too suboptimally to properly discern whether the gunboat player won because of the merits of the list or his own skill, or because of the mistakes of the opponent.

15 hours ago, Estarriol said:

Saw this on a stream last night and it looked interesting.

I’m not sold on Soontir with no bid, and I think i’d downgrade the Rho to a Nu to give both A/SLAM, but I’m nowhere near as accomplished as the person flying it.

Thoughts?

I feel like I might rather have two ASLAM Nus, or else two Intimidation Rhos (without Afterburners on Whisper? With a cheaper ace?), but it's interesting. I've had fun with 4x Ion Scyks + Fenn Rau, which is also an Ion+Ace concept.

18 hours ago, Estarriol said:

Saw this on a stream last night and it looked interesting.

I’m not sold on Soontir with no bid, and I think i’d downgrade the Rho to a Nu to give both A/SLAM, but I’m nowhere near as accomplished as the person flying it.

Thoughts?

It was flown by the reigning world champ, and he won one of the world's most competitive weekly kit tourneys with it. Unfortunately, before we discuss about how good named phantoms with afterburners are as flankers that can double repo in their dodge and how the list is jam packed with flanking speed and control, it is all for naught. He filled in his name as "please don't copy my list". ****, now we have to go back to the drawing board. At least nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

4 hours ago, player3010587 said:

It was flown by the reigning world champ, and he won one of the world's most competitive weekly kit tourneys with it. Unfortunately, before we discuss about how good named phantoms with afterburners are as flankers that can double repo in their dodge and how the list is jam packed with flanking speed and control, it is all for naught. He filled in his name as "please don't copy my list". ****, now we have to go back to the drawing board. At least nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

It’s not so different from several I’ve got on my pad already, so I remain unashamed. If imperials can’t fly Whisper and gunboat players can’t use Ion cannons we are all in trouble!

Sim is a great player, but even great players need balanced lists that have an answer to the meta.

Anyway, Gunboats must be flown, so I’m gonna fly my variant on Thursday and report back.

It seems so sad that we have to try SO hard to find an even remotely viable build for gunboats. Personally I would be happy with just a decent cannon that wacks them up to firepower 3. Sucks not having K turns though... But I guess it makes them somewhat unique.

3 hours ago, william1134 said:

It seems so sad that we have to try SO hard to find an even remotely viable build for gunboats. Personally I would be happy with just a decent cannon that wacks them up to firepower 3. Sucks not having K turns though... But I guess it makes them somewhat unique.

I can’t understand why they haven’t got one very frustrating!

3 hours ago, william1134 said:

It seems so sad that we have to try SO hard to find an even remotely viable build for gunboats. Personally I would be happy with just a decent cannon that wacks them up to firepower 3. Sucks not having K turns though... But I guess it makes them somewhat unique.

At least their method of turnaround is white!

18 hours ago, Azrapse said:

I am not sure that the opponent in that match brought his best game to the table. He overlapped asteroids and his own ships all the time, often throwing naked dice and little else.
I don't think it's a fair display of the potential of the gunboat.

Has Simeon abandoned Scum?

Do you people think this system would be interesting for the gunboat? (French leak)

Passive Sensors

1 recurring charge

Action: Spend 1 charge. You can only perform this action during the Perform Action step.
You cannot be coordinated while your charge is inactive.
Before you engage, if your charge is inactive, you may perform a calculate or lock action.

This would be a way to let Nus and Rhos acquire the locks needed for releasing ordnance on higher initiative targets, right?
The problem is that for double modifiers you would need to get focus from some other source.

What do you think? Is it better than Fire-control System?

3 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

Do you people think this system would be interesting for the gunboat? (French leak)

Passive Sensors

1 recurring charge

Action: Spend 1 charge. You can only perform this action during the Perform Action step.
You cannot be coordinated while your charge is inactive.
Before you engage, if your charge is inactive, you may perform a calculate or lock action.

This would be a way to let Nus and Rhos acquire the locks needed for releasing ordnance on higher initiative targets, right?
The problem is that for double modifiers you would need to get focus from some other source.

What do you think? Is it better than Fire-control System?

Depends on the cost; too much and you might struggle to get maximum utility out of it. It definitely makes the ordnance Gunboats more attractive than the cannons imho.

It’s interesting, not necessarily better. I kind od like my APT Nus who win whether they manage to block their opponent or not.

Let's assume it costs the same as FCS or 1 or 2 points more. Would it be better than FCS?
It's important to note that this thing doesn't work well with SLAM, since SLAM would be the action performed during the Perform Action step.

I think that’s open to interpretation as your free action is also during the perform action step?

Quote

n addition to the action during the Perform Action step, card abilities may instruct the ship to perform additional actions. There is no limit to the number of actions a ship can potentially perform; however, a ship cannot perform the same action more than once per round.

So the free action would happen during the perform action step by my read.

26 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

Let's assume it costs the same as FCS or 1 or 2 points more. Would it be better than FCS?
It's important to note that this thing doesn't work well with SLAM, since SLAM would be the action performed during the Perform Action step.

Yes and no.

While there's a lot of telephone going on here (the card has been translated from English to French back go English...), I think you'd be able to use Advanced SLAM to take the action, depending on the actual English text. This doesn't look like it's worded the same as SLAM, where it can only be the one Perform Action Step action, but just an action performed during that step. For more context, there are ways a ship can get multiple actions within the perform action step. For example, a ship can link actions, and those will still happen in that step. This is important when a ship is ionized, since it can't do anything except focus, and something like an RZ-2 A-Wing won't be able to do a red boost or rotate after it with their ability.

However, that's all useful information in general, but not actually relevant.

Even if you can use Passive Sensors with Advanced SLAM, you wouldn't want to. Advanced SLAM will leave you stressed (since it makes the action red), and if you're stressed you won't be able to perform a Calculate or Lock action before you engage. So ultimately, it doesn't play well with SLAM.

//

I still think it looks like it has potential, however. Seems like it'll be worth testing out. Might work out better on a TIE Advanced x1, actually...

Advanced SLAM allows you to only perform the actions in your action bar. You can't perform the action in Passive Sensors with Advanced SLAM at all.

It's an interesting upgrade for sure. If you bring Jendon, FCS is probably better, but supportless Os-1s and x1s, as well as missile v1s at I3 or less, will definitely want this upgrade. Could be decent on generic Punishers as well. Honestly I kind of hope it'll be 1 point, but I could definitely see myself using it at 2-3 as well.

I bet it's a calculate instead of a focus action to avoid any linked action shenanigans. Redline and Vader can abuse it, but then again they don't really need it.

1 hour ago, Okapi said:

It's an interesting upgrade for sure. If you bring Jendon, FCS is probably better, but supportless Os-1s and x1s, as well as missile v1s at I3 or less, will definitely want this upgrade. Could be decent on generic Punishers as well. Honestly I kind of hope it'll be 1 point, but I could definitely see myself using it at 2-3 as well.

I bet it's a calculate instead of a focus action to avoid any linked action shenanigans. Redline and Vader can abuse it, but then again they don't really need it.

Calculate instead of focus also makes sense thematically, if it represents some sort of computer which is searching out potential targets.

Oof, though. Vader. That's actually tempting if there's enough Init 6 with deeper bids. He'd either have second player, and able to dodge arcs, or else as first player, he'd be able to calculate or lock and use force to barrel roll before engaging. No matter what, he'll have the last word in barrel rolls.

2 hours ago, Azrapse said:

Advanced SLAM allows you to only perform the actions in your action bar. You can't perform the action in Passive Sensors with Advanced SLAM at all.

That too. Either way, if you were able to do both, stress wouldn't let you get the second part of Passive Sensors.