Is Barrage Vynder worth it, as a super manoeuvrable Barrage flank/hit and runner?

Vynder + Config + Barrage is only 46 and fits snugly with my Whisper and Vader with a 10 point bid.

The only part of the config this is really using is the extra missile slot, unless there is time to set up the target lock.

1 minute ago, Jammydude44 said:

Is Barrage Vynder worth it, as a super manoeuvrable Barrage flank/hit and runner?

Vynder + Config + Barrage is only 46 and fits snugly with my Whisper and Vader with a 10 point bid.

The only part of the config this is really using is the extra missile slot, unless there is time to set up the target lock.

The awkward thing about OS-1 Barrage Rocket Vynder is that OS-1 only exempts you from Disarm tokens when attacking targets you have Locked, but Barrage Rockets needs a focus, so it'll be hard to SLAM or Reload and shoot.

Might not be too bad, with the option to SLAM as an escape. It seems like a waste not to use the distinctive tricks of the Gunboat (SLAM and shoot, reload and shoot), but perhaps focusing too much on those tricks is a trap. I mean, a K-Wing with Barrage Rockets is a decent enough ship (largely because of the mobile double arc, but still), and they can't SLAM and shoot.

So what's the end result? Essentially a ship with a T-70 statline and dial (mostly...), but Init 4 instead of Init 1 for 46 points. Hmmm. Might be OK.

Just now, theBitterFig said:

The awkward thing about OS-1 Barrage Rocket Vynder is that OS-1 only exempts you from Disarm tokens when attacking targets you have Locked, but Barrage Rockets needs a focus, so it'll be hard to SLAM or Reload and shoot.

 Might not be too bad, with the option to SLAM as an escape. It seems like a waste not to use the distinctive tricks of the Gunboat (SLAM and shoot, reload and shoot), but perhaps focusing too much on those tricks is a trap. I mean, a K-Wing with Barrage Rockets is a decent enough ship (largely because of the mobile double arc, but still), and they can't SLAM and shoot.

 So what's the end result? Essentially a ship with a T-70 statline and dial (mostly...), but Init 4 instead of Init 1 for 46 points. Hmmm. Might be OK.

Yeah, that's my thoughts. I'm set on sticking with Whisper/Vader/Vynder but just looking to get the right Vynder fit, and have to really fit in a bid. Barrage looked a cheap option, and the shields and speed (compared to the Bomber's lack in both areas) kind of fits better.

6 minutes ago, Jammydude44 said:

Yeah, that's my thoughts. I'm set on sticking with Whisper/Vader/Vynder but just looking to get the right Vynder fit, and have to really fit in a bid. Barrage looked a cheap option, and the shields and speed (compared to the Bomber's lack in both areas) kind of fits better.

Even the slow, two round turn-arounds (SLAM out, regular move in next round) don't seem too bad compared to K-Turns. If a Barrage Bomber pulls a K-Turn, it loses focus and can't Barrage anyhow.

But on the other hand, a generic Phantom can muster a decent amount of speed, and has a native 3-dice primary. Juke Sigma at 51 eats a bunch into the bid, but a Trick Shot Sigma at 48 is only 2 points more, with a lot of mobility, and extra-dice potential.

Seems like a fun ship to try out, anyhow.

I tested that XG-1 build that was posted in that other gunboat thread with Ion Cannon, Adv Proton torps, Adv Slam and FCS.

There it was suggested to run 4 of them but as I only own 2 (yes I know it's heresy) I tried to find something that would take my opponents attention so I could flank with the gunboats.

That thing ended up being a TIE Reaper with Deathtroopers and Tactical Scrambler and 2 TIE Fighters. Because I could I ran everything at initiative 2 (Nu, Nu, Vizier, Night Beast, Obsidian).

Worked better than expected. Played 2 games against Vader, Sontir, Redline flown by a guy that is a step better than me and first game I tabled him without a single loss. Second game he focused the gunboats and I played them a little too aggressively. The result was a 7 point loss (I killed Redline and he killed a Gunboat and got half points on the Reaper).

Only got off a single Adv Proton torp in both games but they where still worth it I think. It make the gunboats a real threat that needs to be played around instead of just an annoyance.

That build is one I've talked about before and is my current favorite loadout. I'd love to see linked cannons come back to give the ion cannon a bit more teeth, but I still think its effective. You don't even need to fire an adv proton torp, just the threat of them can make your opponent play sub optimally.

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

That build is one I've talked about before and is my current favorite loadout. I'd love to see linked cannons come back to give the ion cannon a bit more teeth, but I still think its effective. You don't even need to fire an adv proton torp, just the threat of them can make your opponent play sub optimally.

Would it not be more effective to take Ion missiles and os-1 rather than ion cannons and xg-1? I know it’s less thematic, but it does mean you can slam and fire your advanced proton torps and you’re just as effective at longer range...

27 minutes ago, Estarriol said:

Would it not be more effective to take Ion missiles and os-1 rather than ion cannons and xg-1? I know it’s less thematic, but it does mean you can slam and fire your advanced proton torps and you’re just as effective at longer range...

The downside of an Ion Missile build is that you need locks. XG-1 Ion Cannon/APT isn't about theme, but about targeting flexibility. SLAM around, shooting Ion Cannons. When you ionize someone, you almost surely won't have to SLAM to get to Range 1, so you won't need OS-1 to fire the Torp--you can just be not-disarmed.

Fair point. I’ve just not been very successful with it. It’s probably just me.

For thematic reasons I'd like ion cannons with concussion missiles, but seeing as conc missiles are overpriced garbage, i'll stick to the adv proton torps.

For playing it I try to pick up a lock early on and then rely on fcs to mod my ion cannon while slamming and/or focusing. After a target is ioned it is easy to get into range 1 with a focus to launch the torps. There are very few positions where they will still be out of range of the gunboat after a speed 3 manuever.

6 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

For thematic reasons I'd like ion cannons with concussion missiles, but seeing as conc missiles are overpriced garbage, i'll stick to the adv proton torps.

For playing it I try to pick up a lock early on and then rely on fcs to mod my ion cannon while slamming and/or focusing. After a target is ioned it is easy to get into range 1 with a focus to launch the torps. There are very few positions where they will still be out of range of the gunboat after a speed 3 manuever.

For theme, I'd still go with Ion Cannon and Adv Proton Torpedoes. Unless you were facing a lot of A-Wings (or TIE Advanced), Advanced Torpedoes were almost always better than Advanced Missiles.

4 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

For theme, I'd still go with Ion Cannon and Adv Proton Torpedoes. Unless you were facing a lot of A-Wings (or TIE Advanced), Advanced Torpedoes were almost always better than Advanced Missiles.

Just like in xwing. Missiles suck compared to torpedoes.

I was really hoping they would decouple accuracy from damage from ordnance for 2.0.

15 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

The downside of an Ion Missile build is that you need locks. XG-1 Ion Cannon/APT isn't about theme, but about targeting flexibility. SLAM around, shooting Ion Cannons. When you ionize someone, you almost surely won't have to SLAM to get to Range 1, so you won't need OS-1 to fire the Torp--you can just be not-disarmed.

I still don't know how you people get it to work.
If I SLAM to get a target, I am firing my ion cannon without any tokens, that almost always guarantees that I will either not hit at all, or if it hits, it just deals 1 damage and accomplishes basically nothing.
Because the other alternative is that I SLAM and perform an action with Advanced SLAM, that leaves me stressed. Next round I am forced to do a speed 2 maneuver (straight or bank) to get rid of the stress.
Because if I don't, and I can manage to reach range 1 to the target with a speed 3 maneuver, or a 2 turn, I will be stressed and actionless, that means I won't be able to acquire a lock on the defender to fire my advanced torpedoes.

The situation is for all this to work, you need to fire your ion cannon without tokens, not only hit, but hit with enough uncancelled results to land enough ion tokens (forget about ionizing medium and large ships with only one ion attack). Then, you are unstressed, what allows you to range 1 of your target and acquire a lock to release the adv torpedoes. That is a 5 dice attack that you can only reroll since you cannot have focus and target lock by this point. That is basically 3.125 expected hit/crit results to be then cancelled with the defense dice.

There are lots of ifs and maybes just to land that damage. Two rounds and a lot of hoops and loops just to be able to roll 1 more singly modified die for which you need to get yourself at range 1?

Compare that with OS-1 and plain torpedoes, where you can just SLAM, lock and fire the torpedoes in the same round. Sure, you roll one fewer die, but next round you can do it again since they have 2 charges, they are more tolerant to range, and perhaps you even kept the lock from the previous one (especially if you have Fire Control System) and can now focus or SLAM to stay on target. And you can keep on chasing your target if it is a fat *** ship and reloading nonstop while still attacking.

I just don't see how XG-1 can match that with the puny ion cannon and the hard to line up adv torpedoes.

They need another config, one where you can shoot your ion cannons AND regular blasters.

2 hours ago, Azrapse said:

I still don't know how you people get it to work..

I agree, it’s why I switched to OS-1 and Ion missiles for a point less. With FCS and Advenced SLAM it does the same thing but slightly more efficiently. Don’t think I’ve had to reload the missiles yet either!

I like Vynder, especially with the swarms and 4 ship rebels running with ships like Biggs, cause wherever Biggs goes, you know Wedge etc is going there too so you can still arc dodge the lot. Slam passed all those ion turret ywings, etc. I think Vynder is costed right and has a nice opportunity to shine right now. Nice thing about ion missile/adv torp combo is that if a ship tries to avoid ions by getting range 1, they eat 5 dice for lots of dmg potential.

Major Vynder (39)
Fire-Control System (2)
Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)
Ion Missiles (4)
Advanced SLAM (3)
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)

“Redline” (52)
Advanced Sensors (10)
Proton Torpedoes (12)

Darth Vader (65)
Afterburners (6)

Total: 199

Can swap Vader for Whisper if thats your thing. Vynder flanks, redline jousts. Nobody ignores redline.

12 hours ago, william1134 said:

They need another config, one where you can shoot your ion cannons AND regular blasters.

Could be a modification. Of even a cannon that adds ion to the primary attack, like this.

19 hours ago, william1134 said:

They need another config, one where you can shoot your ion cannons AND regular blasters.

I think Second Edition had and missed the chance to make XG-1 both closer to the lore and more effective with something like:
[Adds Barrel Roll icon]
"You lose the SLAM icon. You may treat 3 banks as red 3 segnor. You may perform primary and cannon attacks even when you are disarmed."

That would have made the XG-1 behave like a true gunboat (SLAM was something only the Missile Boat had), becoming a cheap cannon carrier that can also fire missiles and torpedoes as long as it's not reloading. SLAM is replaced with segnors to be able to turn around, plus Barrel Roll to be able to line up proton rockets or HLC.

SLAM is fun on the gunboat. But it becomes mandatory to be able to turn around and contribute to the fight, and it eats up all the action economy of the ship.

What about Cluster Missiles? Deters formation flying, don't have to reload as often, opens up range 2 - could these work OK on a multi-Ionboat build?

Don’t think so IMO, the bonus three dice unmodified shot seems a bit meh to me.

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

What about Cluster Missiles? Deters formation flying, don't have to reload as often, opens up range 2 - could these work OK on a multi-Ionboat build?

Concussion Missiles do the same thing better, especially in multiples. Like Estarriol says, the main problem (besides no R3 shot) is that the second attack, if you even get it, is unmodified. You'd either need a carrier that can have two locks (Redline, R3 Astromech), or some support ship nearby that lets you mod your attack (Jonus).

The ideal Cluster Missile carrier would probably be something with missile, astro (R3) and sensor (FCS) slots as well as a 2-dice attack. Add in Long Range Scanners and you have something really interesting. And hey, why not SLAM and OS-1 as well. I shall name it the N-1 Cluster E-Boat.

7 hours ago, Okapi said:

Concussion Missiles do the same thing better, especially in multiples. Like Estarriol says, the main problem (besides no R3 shot) is that the second attack, if you even get it, is unmodified. You'd either need a carrier that can have two locks (Redline, R3 Astromech), or some support ship nearby that lets you mod your attack (Jonus).

The ideal Cluster Missile carrier would probably be something with missile, astro (R3) and sensor (FCS) slots as well as a 2-dice attack. Add in Long Range Scanners and you have something really interesting. And hey, why not SLAM and OS-1 as well. I shall name it the N-1 Cluster E-Boat.

Concs are too expensive for what they do, which is little more than be three dice without a range bonus for 6 points.

On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 4:49 AM, FTS Gecko said:

b) I need much more table time in 2nd edition than I'm currently getting.

man, I hear that.

Like a lot of other cards, Clusters are kind of a tech choice against swarms. 3 unmodified dice aren't amazing, but it can add up against stuff like TIEs or likely Vultures.

On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 8:36 AM, mcgreag said:

I tested that XG-1 build that was posted in that other gunboat thread

wait, there's another gunboat thread?