It's not a die roll, it's autodamage.

28 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

It's not a die roll, it's autodamage.

Thanks @thespaceinvader. I thought that was the case, but wasn't sure.

Back on the subject of munitions...

That's... interesting. I'm guessing there will be upgrades or abilities with "if your attack hits" or "if you are hit by an attack" effects which might stack with Homers.

Clusters we already knew about; you are limited to one bonus attack per round, so no burning all four charges. I still like this one on the Gunboat though, decent candidate for OS-1 and AdSLAM builds?

And as highlighted elsewhere by @Boom Owl

I'm thinking this will pair pretty well with Ion Cannons on XG-1 or even titleless Gunboats, depending on cost.

Homing are great - it's not just 'stuff that counts hits' - it's that they're a risk/reward mechanic. You can risk taking four well modded dice - or just can just take a single damage.

They're probably my single favourite piece of design I've seen thus far.

14 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Homing are great - it's not just 'stuff that counts hits' - it's that they're a risk/reward mechanic. You can risk taking four well modded dice - or just can just take a single damage.

They're probably my single favourite piece of design I've seen thus far.

High health/low agility tanks are almost invariably going to take the single hit. Low health/high agility targets will take the defense roll and risk being one-shotted.

I agree, it's interesting, it's fun, it's thematic and it opens up a number of interesting combinations.

But we really need to see how we're going to be able to lverage munitions in 2nd edition; LRS looks like it's not going to be an option any more, hence why I'm liking the look of range 1-2 munitions. I'm looking forward to seeing what surprises the Imperial conversion kit holds!

13 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

I'm looking forward to seeing what surprises the Imperial conversion kit holds!

Given that they said that all upgrades would be available for all factions, and that the rebel kit exact contents has been spoiled on the other thread, I doubt we will see anything new in the imperial one.
There are no Guidance Chips, no Long Range Scanners, no Linked Battery, or, all in all, no surprise other than what has been spoiled already.

3 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

Given that they said that all upgrades would be available for all factions, and that the rebel kit exact contents has been spoiled on the other thread, I doubt we will see anything new in the imperial one.

There are no Guidance Chips, no Long Range Scanners, no Linked Battery, or, all in all, no surprise other than what has been spoiled already.

No generic upgrades or modificaitons, no. However there may be some useful Imperial support abilities. Ways to leverage Co-ordinate could be particularly useful.

Inquisitor crew is a great way to leverage low PS missiles. Wait til their highest PS ship activates, then take your lock or coord someone else to.

52 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

There are no Guidance Chips, no Long Range Scanners, no Linked Battery, or, all in all, no surprise other than what has been spoiled already.

That's probably true of the conversion kits, since they should be the same between factions or a lot of salt is going to be spilt of FFG's table.

However, the new core set is still an enigma. We don't really know how many cards of each type will be in there. And while Saw's renegades has had some spoilers, there might be a few more gems lurking in both it and the Reaper packs.

I'm personally viewing munitions as almost a must-have, since proton torpedoes, cluster missiles, etc are just amazing, assuming they only cost 8-10 points.

The generic upgrades will be the same, but as previously noted,f action-specific upgrades will be different.

I could easily see Imperials getting some manner of suppor tcrew specifically for ordnance, that supports ordnance swarming.

Not to mention Jonus.

7 minutes ago, Astech said:

That's probably true of the conversion kits, since they should be the same between factions or a lot of salt is going to be spilt of FFG's table.

However, the new core set is still an enigma. We don't really know how many cards of each type will be in there. And while Saw's renegades has had some spoilers, there might be a few more gems lurking in both it and the Reaper packs.

I'm personally viewing munitions as almost a must-have, since proton torpedoes, cluster missiles, etc are just amazing, assuming they only cost 8-10 points.

Yes, I don't see how the gunboat is going to pay itself if you only equip it with cannons.
Supposedly, it now has torpedo+missile+cannon upgrade icons on its bar by default, and the XG-1 configuration adds just one more cannon instead of 2. I think configuration-less gunboats will be the norm now.
The main reason for OS-1 is attacking after SLAM. But attacking with missiles after SLAM without being able to spend the lock seems like a recipe for disappointing results. Perhaps rockets of the proton or unguided kinds?

If we see gunboats, it will be with some support that grants them the locks. Perhaps the new lambda title?
It would be cool to see an entirely Cygnus squad being effective.

5 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

The main reason for OS-1 is attacking after SLAM. But attacking with missiles after SLAM without being able to spend the lock seems like a recipe for disappointing results. Perhaps rockets of the proton or unguided kinds?

Or after reloading, although that looks like it's going to be less important in 2nd edition given charges.

Reddice are still inherently superior to green dice however, and mods are equally difficult to come by for both.

Would be VERY nice to be able to score some prockets on xg-1 ions.

Hope the boat kept its standard missile + Torp without the need for os-1. A procket + ion combination would give it a menancing pressence that the bomber couldn't quite replicate

3 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Back on the subject of munitions...

That's... interesting. I'm guessing there will be upgrades or abilities with "if your attack hits" or "if you are hit by an attack" effects which might stack with Homers.

I like the fact that it's basically a reverse countdown. Watching opponents try to decide whether to just take their lumps is going to be fun.

3 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Clusters we already knew about; you are limited to one bonus attack per round, so no burning all four charges. I still like this one on the Gunboat though, decent candidate for OS-1 and AdSLAM builds?

It's going to be dependent on getting some sort of extra modification (free token, predator, whatever) for the bonus attack to really hurt - unmodified 3-dice attacks aren't especially scary even in the non-rarified world of no green token stacks. But depending on the price, even the fact that it's a bin of 4 3-dice attacks might be worth it...

3 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

And as highlighted elsewhere by @Boom Owl

I'm thinking this will pair pretty well with Ion Cannons on XG-1 or even titleless Gunboats, depending on cost.

Ion weapons, or else just a massed formation. 4 ships all with proton rockets can put out a pretty scary 'web' of bullseye arcs, and you only need one of them to be on target to cause some serious pain.

So. It's now red. Which is a shame, but in a world where Push The Limit has officially died in a fire, it's as close as you're likely to get. It does mean that you need to think about your disengage move after a SLAM strafing run, as you'll not be able to use the gunboat and K-wing's trademark bank 3/SLAM/bank 3 "initiating getting the **** out of here manouvre" technique..

Other ordnance:

Ion Pulse Missiles

So...it's an ion cannon in a missile slot. The ion pulse missile used to have the nice edge that it auto-ionized big stuff, and now it doesn't. On the other hand, your points now buy you a pack of three, meaning less need to reload the things.

Well, it's a torpedo with only one shot in the bin. Which suits a reload-centric ordnance ship, and it's short range suits a SLAM boat. The nice thing is that whilst it's a pale shadow of the 1.0 advanced torpedo, you don't need to spend any tokens, let alone the two needed now. It's probably at least as easy to get a shot with as proton rockets, and the auto-critical shouldn't be overlooked.

4 dice with a target lock nets an average of 3 hits. That gives you a far better chance of ionizing something more than a small ship. The lack of ion splash is no real loss (because it was a bugbear as often as a benefit) but the inability to land full damage does make it a problem. Still, I'd rather have ion torps than ion missiles unless the latter are much, much cheaper. You still have a second shot in the tank, so I'd just consider these the new ion pulse missile.

4 dice with a lock, hit to a critical. It's not guidance chip/expertise harpoons, but it's still going to hurt if someone points them at you. More importantly, an OS-1 hopefully lets you fit in range 1 ordnance to cover the blind spot (packing regular and advanced torpedos sounds a bit over the top, but it wouldn't half make for a threatening ship).

Surprising to see it be a 3 dice attack now. Still, it's still better than a gunboat's regular attack, and you get three shots. Assuming expose is what I think it is, it's broadly the same effect as proton torpedoes, but if you've got multiple damaged enemy ships in a nearby bubble, it could be very effective. But....surely you can't see it that often.

You know, not at all perturbed by stress ASLAM

Considering what a SLAM ion platform can do to people, it's a more than fair trade imo

59 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Would be VERY nice to be able to score some prockets on xg-1 ions.

Hope the boat kept its standard missile + Torp without the need for os-1. A procket + ion combination would give it a menancing pressence that the bomber couldn't quite replicate

Given it has Reload, I can't see it losing either of the munitions slots. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it's loadout at launch was identical to the 1st edition version - it was released recently enough that it will have been designed with 2nd edition in mind.

Current rumour suggests however that it may come with cannon, torp and missile slots as standard, before you add the titles. That sounds really good.

I do hope so, and the pressence of reload makes me optimistic

Huge fan of the new prockets being bullseye only but agility independent. Really stands to give xg-1s an option to deal real damage and diversify their capabilities so they're not one trick ponies

What have y'all been running on your 1.0 gunboats?
I have had a lot of success recently with HLC Lightning Reflex Rho's Paired with HLC Wired Kemosabi but I don't know if it can beat Stressbunker (Miranda, Ezra, Lowhrick)

4 minutes ago, AngryAlbatross said:

What have y'all been running on your 1.0 gunboats?
I have had a lot of success recently with HLC Lightning Reflex Rho's Paired with HLC Wired Kemosabi but I don't know if it can beat Stressbunker (Miranda, Ezra, Lowhrick)

Personally, I've been using:

Rho Squadron Veteran - Push the Limit, OS-1 Arsenal Loadout, Harpoon Missiles, Guidance Chimps. 30 points each means 2 + an Imperial Ace is a pretty solid list.

At the weekend I faced off against two tough Gunboat lists - the standard Quickdraw plus 3 Nus with Harpoons/LRS and a Kylo Ren with two Deadeye Harpoon Rhos.

There's a pattern forming here, and it's how effective Harpoons are!

I'm pretty excited about those new proton rockets on my boats. Make 'em a threat and any range. I will miss the harpoons, those were just too much fun. But I get why they are no more.

8 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

I wouldn't go that far. As mentioned earlier, Harpoon Nus are very good, and don't rely on the title OR Advanced SLAM in 1st Edition. HLC boats never relied on either for obvious reasons. In fact, very few GUNBOAT builds really use Advanced SLAM in 1st.

Of course, 2nd Edition is going to bring many changes and a lot of 1st Edition GUNBOAT staples are MIA at the moment, but there's a lot still to be revealed.

I'm talking entirely second edition; first edition is gunboats are a known quantity. Is anyone still seriously motivated to theorize about 1st edition at this point? My interest level in 1.0 squad building/experimentation is indistinguishable from zero

5 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Back on the subject of munitions...

I'm thinking this will pair pretty well with Ion Cannons on XG-1 or even titleless Gunboats, depending on cost.

I just realized that along with the removal of the agility factor, the range has been increased. Man, can't wait to try these. Need to get my boats back on the table so I can run these in my head.

9 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Clusters we already knew about; you are limited to one bonus attack per round, so no burning all four charges. I still like this one on the Gunboat though, decent candidate for OS-1 and AdSLAM builds?

Possibly, but they don't pair particularly well with the OS-1 title. The OS-1 title still requires you to have a lock on any target you are shooting so the bonus attack doesn't work after SLAM (at all), even though the lock requirement is elided for the missile portion.

Homings look good, even if situational. There are a lot of targets I'm happy to do 1 dmg to, especially if I don't have to spend the lock or any tokens to do it I often remind folks that if you are taking any sort of gunner effect in 1.0 (gunner, IG88-B, etc) then you are by definition fine with doing 1 damage per turn, and yet it was still a very popular upgrade in certain metas. Homing missiles are similar, and they feel much more thematic and have interesting decisions depending on what mods the attacker/defender has and how good the defender is at head math

APTs look like a solid option on gunboats, depending on price. Experience with Vynder w/ Harpoons and APTs in 1.0 gives me confidence that they are not terribly hard to set up with SLAM (SLAM is bad for bullseye but great for range control). There's still the initiative issue vs. arc dodgers, but I could definitely see slotting in APTs along with a range 2-3 missile to cover my bases and discourage people from boosting to range 1.

Advanced SLAM stress is a bit of a bummer but at least I'm used to it playing PTL Vynder in 1.0 Adv SLAM is effectively the linked action of gunboats (SLAM -> focus/lock/reload since they don't have any built-in) so I expect I'll want that on most of my gunboats in 2.0.

3 hours ago, AngryAlbatross said:

What have y'all been running on your 1.0 gunboats?
I have had a lot of success recently with HLC Lightning Reflex Rho's Paired with HLC Wired Kemosabi but I don't know if it can beat Stressbunker (Miranda, Ezra, Lowhrick)

I had a great deal of fun with this squad in 1.0:

Major Vynder + Veteran Instincts + Harpoons + OS-1 title + Advanced Slam

Rho Squadron + Deadeye + Harpoon + Guidance Chips

Soontir Fell + PTL + title + Autothrusters + Stealth Device

The usual start was all 3 ships spread across the board. The one ship which opponent focused on was the baiter, and the other 2 were flanking.

With constant slamming the boats are indeed super fast and can outmaneuver pretty much any opposing ships.

Star of the list is of course Vynder, who is so much fun with the Advanced Slam (slam + lock + fire rockets, next turn slam + reload, then repeat).

Soontir was chosen because I wanted to have an end-game ship, but one which could keep up the pace with the boats.

I think a similar squad could be pretty good in 2.0, but I would go for the new cannon title instead of ordnance one.

Ion Cannons + Proton rockets look like an amazing combination, as was already discussed above..

how do you think Krennic will/can help out the boats? need to do some list building with a reaper and some starwings.