Just now, ClassicalMoser said:

The new title also works with HLC. How did everyone miss that? It just only lets you roll up to 3 dice.

Honestly, with advanced SLAM, I see lining up focused bullseyes being a pretty straightforward job.

Really looking forward to giving this a try. And I hope that other cannons make a comeback. I don't think we've seen mangler cannon yet, have we?

1 minute ago, ClassicalMoser said:

The new title also works with HLC. How did everyone miss that? It just only lets you roll up to 3 dice.

Honestly, with advanced SLAM, I see lining up focused bullseyes being a pretty straightforward job.

The main concern is lining up the shot. Bullseye arc shots are difficult enough to pull off that they can't really be relied on as your main source of damage output.

Fly against a higher initiative opponent - especially one packing a repositioning action - and you're unlikely to ever get the shot unless you restrict them in some way first (stress, ion, blocking...).

but it could be really good against lower initiative pilots. Just need something else in your list for dealing with the higher ones. I hope I can fly a nicely decked out defender and some hard hitting GB's in 2ndE. A 2ndE version of QD3B would be awesome! I may need to start messing around with something like that in 1stE.

1 hour ago, PanchoX1 said:

A 2ndE version of QD3B would be awesome! I may need to start messing around with something like that in 1stE.

NuQD is a really good first edition list (and I'm not just saying that because it tore me a new one on Saturday )

A lot of it's vital components aren't going to be so readily available in 2nd Edition though (no Long Range Scanners as far as I'm aware, no Harpoons and obviously QD will be in a different faction). Having to make it to Lock range will make the alpha strike a bit less reliable.

That said, from what I saw of 2nd Edition at the weekend, torps and missiles are still really effective due to retaining the lock and having charges. It will all come down to points in the app, but I don't think its a stretch to say three Gunboats and an Imperial ace will probably be a solid build.

Needless to say, Old Teroch didn't come out of this round intact.

Fenn Rau didn't fare so well either.

gonna try 3xgbs and Vessery for a bit. see how that goes.

speaking of Vessery, do we know if he made the 2ndE cut?

37 minutes ago, PanchoX1 said:

speaking of Vessery, do we know if he made the 2ndE cut?

IIRC, the only Defender pilots we've seen so far for 2nd Edition are Ryad and Onyx Pilot Ace. The full contents of the Imperial and Scum conversion kits haven't been revealed yet

Uhh... yeah good luck with HLC on gunboats SLAM is actually a really bad tool for lining up bullseye shots on small bases... it's worse than boost, both of which are *waaaay* worse than barrel roll. The key is that unlike BR, the bullseye board area that you are covering with your reposition options is highly discontinuous with boost, and even more-so with SLAM (unless you are SLAMming a 1...).

Realistically barrel roll is the only particularly good bullseye tool, and you also have to move after your opponent to do it reliably. Almost all ships have some sort of reposition in 2.0 and if the option is a) get shot by an HLC or b) that gunboat can't shoot *at all* this turn, I'm pretty sure I know what your opponent will choose.

The only cases where you are going to be able to line it up somewhat reliably are vs. large bases or swarms flying in formation. In both cases I think I'm happier just bringing an ion cannon or munitions and not taking the risk on "maybe 3 dice or maybe no shot at all". also remember for fully half of the HLC's shooting area your opponent gets an extra green die as well.

So yeah, good luck with that one but from the games I've proxied so far HLC is an objectively terrible option on 2.0 gunboats, and I say that as a HUGE HLC gunboat fan and user in 1.0 In 2.0 it's more like a situational upgrade for stuff like defenders or firesprays or whatever that can occasionally add an extra die but no worries if you're just shooting your 3 dice primary regardless. Don't try and force it

Munitions are indeed reasonably strong in 2.0 but gunboat generics are going to suffer from the low PS target lock issues. Without LRS you effectively need coordinate or something else handing them locks at higher PS if you want to deal with any named pilots let alone aces, and requiring a support ship to have your ship operate is usually not a good plan in the endgame

Furthermore if you SLAM/adv SLAM to lock and then can't spend your lock on the attack and have no mods, having munitions in the first place was mostly pointless. You would be better off with a standard 3 dice ship with a focus. Possibly some pilots or upgrades we haven't yet seen will help out the missile gunboats but as of what we known right now their tools are rather limited... you pretty much have to glue advanced SLAM to them otherwise they are just expensive bombers/punishers and make good use of their white reload.

Don't get me wrong I think ion gunboats are probably viable right out of the gate... possibly tractor. Munition gunboats might need some help, but all of this depends on pricing.

Yeah, pessimist that I am I'm also not seeing much to boats beyond xg-1 ions (or any other full arc cannons that actually do damage)

On the plus side, this is largely because TIE/sa bombers actually look ******* sweet!

So we got our fabled gunboats.. but the golden time was far too short. Gunboats are seemingly going to end up quite the disappointment in 2.0.

I really hope there is something in there for us...

16 minutes ago, punkUser said:

So yeah, good luck with that one but from the games I've proxied so far HLC is an objectively terrible option on 2.0 gunboats, and I say that as a HUGE HLC gunboat fan and user in 1.0 In 2.0 it's more like a situational upgrade for stuff like defenders or firesprays or whatever that can occasionally add an extra die but no worries if you're just shooting your 3 dice primary regardless. Don't try and force it

I've got to agree with this. However, Bullseye becomes much more effective as base size increases. Small ship vs another small ship, not so good. Small ship vs medium or large, it becomes incrementally easier to line shots up on target. So yeah, HLC becomes more situational, but is effective against larger targets. Gameplay PLUS fluff!

Still, Ion Cannons for me though.

19 minutes ago, punkUser said:

Munitions are indeed reasonably strong in 2.0 but gunboat generics are going to suffer from the low PS target lock issues. Furthermore if you SLAM/adv SLAM to lock and then can't spend your lock on the attack and have no mods, having munitions in the first place was mostly pointless. You would be better off with a standard 3 dice ship with a focus. Possibly some pilots or upgrades we haven't yet seen will help out the missile gunboats but as of what we known right now their tools are rather limited... you pretty much have to glue advanced SLAM to them otherwise they are just expensive bombers/punishers and make good use of their white reload.

In first edition, Munitions Boats could pick and choose between Long Range Scanners, Guidance Chips and Advanced SLAM depending on build; in 2nd so far AdSLAM is the obvious choice, definitely. In fact, it's the only choice we've really seen so far.

Not sure I entirely agree about munitions being mostly pointless without mods, though. I'm really looking forward to giving Cluster Missiles/Ion Cannon builds a try. Ionize a target and set it up for the next round's salvo.

3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

TIE/sa bombers actually look ******* sweet!

Don't they just? Especially with Seismic Charges.

1 minute ago, FTS Gecko said:

Don't they just? Especially with Seismic Charges.

Oh my, yes

Nifty bomb tricks, linked roll into lock, red 3k, WHITE TWO TURNS EMPEROR BE PRAISED!!!

if only gunboats could bomb....

1 minute ago, FTS Gecko said:

I've got to agree with this. However, Bullseye becomes much more effective as base size increases. Small ship vs another small ship, not so good. Small ship vs medium or large, it becomes incrementally easier to line shots up on target. So yeah, HLC becomes more situational, but is effective against larger targets. Gameplay PLUS fluff!

Agreed - HLC is cool in 2.0 if priced appropriately. It's a situational option that is better against larger ships which makes a lot of fluff sense It's just not a great option as your only weapon on gunboats.

1 minute ago, FTS Gecko said:

Not sure I entirely agree about munitions being mostly pointless without mods, though. I'm really looking forward to giving Cluster Missiles/Ion Cannon builds a try. Ionize a target and set it up for the next round's salvo.

It all depends on cost. If there's some cheap missiles you can throw on to augment your primary cannons that could of course be a good option. I'm just not sure going all in on the missile title is the best choice vs throwing reliable, modded 3 dice with an efficient jouster who can k-turn assuming they are similar costs. Unmodded 4 dice missiles only net you an average of 2 hits (vs. 2.25 for 3 dice + focus/TL) and you leave yourself without any defensive mods and stressed to do it in any sort of interesting way (i.e. after SLAM). If you can reliably follow up with a range 1 focused munition the next turn without SLAMming or something it gets interesting, but then you are negating some of the benefit of SLAM in the first place.

Also Karsabi seems completely useless in 2.0... the titles pretty much entirely eliminate the point in his ability and his initiative of 3 is nothing to write home about.

Anyways we'll see But I agree that for now ion gunboats are probably going to be my go-to and that's fine as it gives me good X-Wing/Tie Fighter game vibes vs. the somewhat silly missile boat in the games.

6 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Oh my, yes

Nifty bomb tricks, linked roll into lock, red 3k, WHITE TWO TURNS EMPEROR BE PRAISED!!!

I can't wait to go all Jango with the Seismics. Angled bomb drop + splash damage from obstacles =

Han players will learn to fear the humble TIE Bomber.

3 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Han players will learn to fear the humble TIE Bomber.

Question: can Han re-roll his bomb dice from being near the asteroid if the asteroid is blown up by the bomb? IE, does he roll for damage before or after the asteroid is removed?

Also, we will be getting a 2.0 XG-1 expac eventually, so that means two more pilots for the boat. I'm Betting on Maarek. And then one other...

3 hours ago, punkUser said:

Also Karsabi seems completely useless in 2.0... the titles pretty much entirely eliminate the point in his ability and his initiative of 3 is nothing to write home about.

The OS-1 title stops you from spending the lock, drastically reducing the damage output of munitions, Karsabi will not suffer this issue. The XG-1 title reduces your dice with all cannons at range one, and HLC at range 2-3, Karsabi will not suffer this issue. Both titles are useless if you have two disarmed tokens, Karsabi will not suffer this issue.

29 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

The OS-1 title stops you from spending the lock, drastically reducing the damage output of munitions, Karsabi will not suffer this issue. The XG-1 title reduces your dice with all cannons at range one, and HLC at range 2-3, Karsabi will not suffer this issue. Both titles are useless if you have two disarmed tokens, Karsabi will not suffer this issue.

Karsabi is my fav Gunboat pilot so this is great news!

3 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

The OS-1 title stops you from spending the lock, drastically reducing the damage output of munitions, Karsabi will not suffer this issue. The XG-1 title reduces your dice with all cannons at range one, and HLC at range 2-3, Karsabi will not suffer this issue. Both titles are useless if you have two disarmed tokens, Karsabi will not suffer this issue.

Except if you use Karsabi and get stressed you can't use advanced SLAM to get the lock in the first place... I just don't think they put a lot of thought into these interactions when they ported over the old ability. And if you already had a TL it's still better to just advanced SLAM for a focus and keep the lock rather than Krasabi'ing to drop the weapons disabled.

The only case in which he's not just objectively worse than advanced SLAM is if you get your disarm from reload rather than SLAM but already have a target lock... pretty situational and hardly worth any additional points he costs IMO.

He was sorta bad in 1.0, but at least there you could slap an HLC on him. In 2.0 I just don't see the point.

1 minute ago, punkUser said:

Except if you use Karsabi and get stressed you can't use advanced SLAM to get the lock in the first place... I just don't think they put a lot of thought into these interactions when they ported over the old ability.

Karsabi could never used AdvSLAM.

Just now, HolySorcerer said:

Karsabi could never used AdvSLAM.

Right so then you SLAM and don't fire at all... seems bad

Remember, if you're not SLAMming gunboats are kinda pointless in the first place. Their entire gimmick is SLAM.

1 hour ago, punkUser said:

Right so then you SLAM and don't fire at all... seems bad

Remember, if you're not SLAMming gunboats are kinda pointless in the first place. Their entire gimmick is SLAM.

I wouldn't go that far. As mentioned earlier, Harpoon Nus are very good, and don't rely on the title OR Advanced SLAM in 1st Edition. HLC boats never relied on either for obvious reasons. In fact, very few GUNBOAT builds really use Advanced SLAM in 1st.

Of course, 2nd Edition is going to bring many changes and a lot of 1st Edition GUNBOAT staples are MIA at the moment, but there's a lot still to be revealed.

In 1.0 I almost exclusively ran Nus with HLC to decent success. I used SLAM for re positioning after the first pass.. god I wish they had a K turn.

6 hours ago, Infinite_Maelstrom said:

Question: can Han re-roll his bomb dice from being near the asteroid if the asteroid is blown up by the bomb? IE, does he roll for damage before or after the asteroid is removed?

...is it a dice roll? I was watching the 2nd Edition demo games at the weekend and Alex Davy was running a Y-Wing with Seismics, can't remember if it was a dice roll or just one damage assigned though.

Either way, I'm guessing Han wouldn't get a reroll as he's being damaged by the destruction of the obstacle itself. I'll have to see if I can dig up the card