Pretty much what @Azrapse said. First engagement Alpha with double mods.

2 hours ago, Azrapse said:

I guess for the alpha strike, so that they reach the first round of combat with focus+target lock.
After that, I have found it not so useful, especially if equipping Linked Batteries. A target lock is better than a linked battery reroll, but a linked battery reroll doesn't cost you one action while you are trying to SLAM to perform another run, and focus to attack/defend.

This. You don't need to replace that early target lock but it's nice to have - especially with a heavy laser cannon where 1 reroll might not cut it.

16 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Mangler is loathsomely inefficient

The only way he's worth taking is if he's like his defender version, cheaper relative to his ps

I have no problem with this. Making him a much cheaper PS7 than Vynder would be an interesting alternative, and as noted, a cheap Maarek Stele with a Mangler Cannon isn't inherently a bad idea. Provided he is actually cheap.

15 hours ago, Kieransi said:

I've been looking at all the generics and both titles, and I think I'm going to try these squads. My hunch is that cannons are best, and Rhos are better than Nus. Also note that from a purism perspective, XG-1 is a real GUNBOAT and OS-1 is a fake MISSILEBOAT.

Cannons are definitely easier to use!

The Gunboat is refreshingly tough; it's essentially a T-70. So 4 of them presents a big whack of health to try and deal with. More importantly, even the PS-a-million alpha strike brigade will struggle to remove more than one in a single shooting phase. I feel like I want to try and experiment with 25 point builds that you can mix and match 4 of.

My initial suggestion:

• Nu Squadron Pilot
  • XG-1 Configuration
  • Flechette Cannon
  • Linked Battery
  • Advanced SLAM

It has the mobility, the toughness and the action economy. It has very reliable firepower for a 25 point ship (focus, 1 reroll, no range 3 bonus, 3 dice, able to shoot if tokenless). It just doesn't have very much of it. A squad which can only do 4 damage per turn makes me think that 4 of these would be a bad idea, but one or two give you a ship with control capabilities which can actually reliably chase down Miranda Doni and survive flying through a bomblet to get a shot if needs be.

Swapping out one or two linked batteries for Seismic Torpedoes does add a lot of flexibility to the squad - move up, blast a hole, SLAM through the gap that's not supposed to be there.

15 hours ago, Kieransi said:

Nu Squadron Pilot (25) - Alpha-class Star Wing
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1), Long-Range Scanners (0), "Mangler" Cannon (4), Linked Battery (2)

Linked Battery Manglers is impressive firepower. Granted, no SLAM-and-fire, but you can't have everything, right? This is probably as shooty as you can make a cannon-armed gunboat in 25 points.

15 hours ago, Kieransi said:

Not sure there's a viable quad-MISSILEBOAT build. This one was the best I could come up with (spoiler: it's bad and SLAM does nothing for you). The one boat with Thread Tracers is a huge target and I've known Tread Tracers to whiff, leaving other ships high and dry. Probably ok for casual games:

The problem with ordnance on Nu squadrons is getting target locks. Thread tracers work, but you can't rely on one thread tracer working, with the possible exception of Lieutenant Blount, and even then he could be PS-killed.

• Nu Squadron Pilot
  • OS-1 Arsenal Loadout
  • XX-23 S-Thread Tracers
  • Harpoon Missiles
  • Guidance Chips

Whoever needs to can play 'spotter'. No extra munitions, but, heck, as long as you keep a lock on the target you can reload and fire in the same turn so why would you really need it?

The other answer to low PS missileboats is Long Range Scanners. This risks getting the lock on one turn and having Countermeasures or Black One remove it, so it's not ideal, but it could work.

• Nu Squadron Pilot
  • OS-1 Arsenal Loadout
  • Your choice of: Cruise Missiles or Ion Pulse Missiles
  • Your choice of: Seismic Torpedoes, Flechette Torpedoes or Scrambler Missiles
  • Long Range Scanners

That's a lot of nasty tricks in one 25 point unit. Reloading infinite ion pulse missiles is arguably Rear Admiral Chiraneau's worst nightmare. Cruise missiles, on the other hand, are more awkward to use than harpoons, but a point saved is a point saved.

15 hours ago, Kieransi said:

Edit: forgot to put this in. For full GUNBOAT spam, five of them is in fact possible. I doubt it's good, but after a few tractor beams hit, your enemy has no agility and those 2-dice primaries get a lot scarier. You could put some Jamming Beams in there too, to deny defensive tokens or something.

Quintuple GUNBOAT? (100)

Nu Squadron Pilot (20) - Alpha-class Star Wing
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1), Long-Range Scanners (0), Tractor Beam (1)

When you've got 2-dice attacks and no linked batteries, I think the tractors are the better call. You need to be able to position yourself to get range 1 shots without SLAM, so tractor>jam in this case - it's positioning that matters more.

That said, you rarely need more than one tractor beam hit. Even assuming you want two or even three to make sure you have at least one or two with a shot, a couple of jamming beams gives you another option if you think the primary isn't going to do the job.

Maybe 2 tractors/3 jammers?

5 gunboats is a ridiculous amount of toughness to chew through - more than a twin decimator list!

11 hours ago, MegaSilver said:

You forgot Rho Rho Rho Your Boats!

3 with Expertise, Harpoon, title, Slam.

How have people been doing with this? My issue is always a concern that a lower PS missile pilot needs either Deadeye or Long Range Scanners (or Thread Tracers elsewhere in the squad).

11 hours ago, MegaSilver said:

Also a variate im testing with HLC, LRS instead.

I'm just worried about the sheer expense of Heavy Laser ships. An XG-1,expertise, linked battery heavy laser cannon (okay, absolute worst case here) is admittedly terrifying, but you're essentially spending 14 points on that cannon. Sinking over 1/3 of the points of a ship into the gun feels too much (I can't help but think about scyk-with-heavy-laser-cannon syndrome)

Add in the fact that a gunboat can't dance if it wants to fire big guns, and the fact that missiles have broadly caught up with cannons in damage potential compared to the B-wing with FCS/HLC days, and I suspect I'd rather take missiles for killing work.

for Karsabi specifically? Sure. his ability makes him mobile and tougher-than-normal when packing a big cannon.

• Lieutenant Karsabi (35 points)
  • XG-1 Assault Configuration
  • Wired
  • Heavy Laser Cannon
  • Linked Battery
  • Long Range Scanners

Vynder on the other hand feels like she's the closest thing to a high-PS gunboat dogfighting ace. PS9 is good but not amazing, but her 7 hit points behind agility 3 makes her a darn sight harder to take down with autoblasters, bomblets, and the other tricks which are usually death sentences to aces, and her ability to stress her target if she hits is actually not that bad a trick against the right opponent.

• Major Vynder (34 points)
  • XG-1 Assault Configuration
  • Veteran Instincts
  • Flechette Cannon
  • Linked Battery
  • Advanced SLAM

I'm still thinking Lightning Reflexes might be a valuable option for Rhos, as a one-off rapid repositioning option might prove invaluable considering the oherwise cumbersome and action-reliant SLAM.

4 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

I'm still thinking Lightning Reflexes might be a valuable option for Rhos, as a one-off rapid repositioning option might prove invaluable considering the oherwise cumbersome and action-reliant SLAM.

Or Adrenaline Rush for the double 4 forward...

1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

Or Adrenaline Rush for the double 4 forward...

On the whole I think having the ability to rapidly turn-to-face from any 1-3 speed bank, turn or straight is probably going to be more useful...

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

On the whole I think having the ability to rapidly turn-to-face from any 1-3 speed bank, turn or straight is probably going to be more useful...

I want Reload to also "reload" spent EPTs!

34 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

I want Reload to also "reload" spent EPTs!

Tomax_Bren: hold my beer.

2 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

On the whole I think having the ability to rapidly turn-to-face from any 1-3 speed bank, turn or straight is probably going to be more useful...

I know someone who operates a trio of wookie gunships. After I suggested Lightning Reflexes on them he's grabbed the idea with both hands and not looked back.

The Gunboat does have the ability to come 180' about in one turn, but it does a speed 3 'sidestep' when it does so (or a speed 4 1/2 sidestep if you chain speed 3 turns together).

Still, being able to generate Segnor's Loops and similar should be cool. It'd be interesting to know if we can trigger it on a SLAM maneuver (I don't see why not - it's a maneuver and it is by definition one on our dial)

Adrenaline Rush is a very predictable trick (because a speed 9 'zoom' is all you can do with it), but as one-trick-ponies go it's an impressive one. It'll probably catch an opponent unawares...once.

Of course, that one time is going to hurt. Long Range Scanners OS-1s can target lock one turn then Straight-4/SLAM-4 and bin off 5-dice cruise missiles that people won't anticipate from gunboats, and if the other person was quitely convinced they would be 'safely out of range'...

Equally, giving one of the elite pilots Push The Limit and an Engine Upgrade could be good for comedy value. Bank 3/Bank 3 (the other way, obviously!)/Boost straight actually takes you the same distance as Straight 4/SLAM 4 but it's useful for a whole swathe of other functions - tacking a boost on after a bank or turn SLAM puts an XG-1's ability to get its nose around up to faintly ridiculous levels, and Linked Batteries means you didn't necessarily need that action for focus....

Mr wookie trio just doesn't want you one-rounding his ships with hlc crackshots

Lightning Reflexes on an Auzituck, I meant.

The fact that it lacks a native 'end-around' move is it's big weakness and Lightning reflexes does a lot of good for this.

Crack Shot definitely nasty. Rho Squadron Veterans with Heavy Lasers, Linked Batteries, Long Range Scanners and Crack Shot deliver a brutal opening salvo - in fact, even if you lose one before it fires, two cannons should maul most small ships rather roughly. It'll just be a case of learning to manage the SLAM disengage, since the guns will be offline (unless it's worth Flechettes rather than linked as a SLAM-cannon?)

2 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

unless it's worth Flechettes rather than linked as a SLAM-cannon?

Heh, heh...

No.

Highly doubt FLECHETTE would be worth much of anything

Linked adds sustained damage to both HLCs and range 1 primaries

I don't think bothering to deal with the boat's weakness is really worth anyone's time. This is because you could just use another ship, especially an x7, to perform any sort of late game dance with better effectiveness

For the boat's other strength, which I guess is control, the damage drop is way too sharp to justify points or attacks (ipm being the only possible exemption but even then I doubt it)

In xwing, the simplest solution is almost invariably the best and is almost invariably "dice mods". In short, a dead enemy can't exploit your weaknesses

23 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

In xwing, the simplest solution is almost invariably the best and is almost invariably "dice mods". In short, a dead enemy can't exploit your weaknesses

Agreed.

But if trying to front-load damage (which we must be if packing 11 points of attack upgrades onto a 21 point chassis), I'd (a) just can't shake a concern about higher PS alpha strikes (maybe I'm over-pessimistic but I'm working on the assumption that one of those cannons has a decent chance of being dead* before firing) and (b) wonder if I couldn't get the same punch (albeit more awkward to set up for a second shot) out of missiles or torpedoes.

* Or Kylo Ren/Blinded Pilot, or unable to draw arc of fire.

Well that's the fun part about hlc boats, higher ps matters less because you don't need tokens to fire

For raclo, the hope is either engaging at range 3 (Cheri don't crit) or just taking the blinded and using the other boats to obliterate the wingman

QD will hurt but you'll also have a good chance of making her disappear in a single round with two HLCs

I'd take crack vess over juke ryad any day

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

Mr wookie trio just doesn't want you one-rounding his ships with hlc crackshots

Absolutely no-one wants you one-rounding ships with HLC crackshots!

Btw if you loathe raclo beyond the point of reason, an HLC linked Nu is 28 points

3 of those fit a DTF black squaddies

17 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Btw if you loathe raclo beyond the point of reason, an HLC linked Nu is 28 points

3 of those fit a DTF black squaddies

You know fickle, that's a pretty good idea.

3 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I know someone who operates a trio of wookie gunships. After I suggested Lightning Reflexes on them he's grabbed the idea with both hands and not looked back.

The Gunboat does have the ability to come 180' about in one turn, but it does a speed 3 'sidestep' when it does so (or a speed 4 1/2 sidestep if you chain speed 3 turns together).

Still, being able to generate Segnor's Loops and similar should be cool. It'd be interesting to know if we can trigger it on a SLAM maneuver (I don't see why not - it's a maneuver and it is by definition one on our dial)

Yeah, I questioned Lightning Reflexes SLAM on another thread and the consensus was "don't see why not" there as well. I think it may be worth it not just due to the ability to reposition, but also the ability to do so while stressed. SLAM is tied to actions and can potentially be shut down. Lightning Reflexes can help you get around that (well, once at least).

2 hours ago, Celestial Lizards said:

Rho Squadron Veteran — Alpha-class Star Wing	21
Crack Shot	1
Linked Battery	2
Heavy Laser Cannon	7
Long-Range Scanners	0
XG-1 Assault Configuration	1
Ship Total: 32

I actually agree with @Magnus Grendel that when you're building out a Rho boat like this, the Linked Battery isn't really essential. LRS already gives you all the rerolls you want. Not sure if I'd take Flechette (in case of SLAM) or just leave the slot empty though.

I think the gunboats need to fly in a list where they are either not the focus, and I cannot help but think a silencer will pair well with two boats.....even the PS7 perhaps, if it has a neat pilot skill. Anyone thought of this option?

9 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

I think the gunboats need to fly in a list where they are either not the focus, and I cannot help but think a silencer will pair well with two boats.....even the PS7 perhaps, if it has a neat pilot skill. Anyone thought of this option?

If your entire list is boats, some of them won't be focused on

46 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

If your entire list is boats, some of them won't be focused on

(I apologise to my friends and family)

2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

If your entire list is boats, some of them won't be focused on

Yeah, got cha’ haha.

1 hour ago, Ktan said:

Even I can learn....but diversity in a squad is better?