Two with additional effect is fine (which is why I think a BTL-A4 Ion Turret Y-Wing is currently the closest analogue we have ri a Gunboat, and why my own homebrew rules include a similar mechanic). But the idea is to move the ship away from relying on a simple (boring) three dice primary and bring secondaries into use instead.

Anyway, I thought the Trench Run was responsible for all those holes in the wall, sorry, I mean broken flight sticks? Well, that and taking down the Intrepid...

57 minutes ago, Ashley said:

I don't claim to know exactly what the stats should be but three broken CH flight sticks tells me they should be at least attack dice 2.5( 2 with additional effect) or maybe 3.

The fact that it's normal attack uses the exact same guns as a regular TIE Fighter tells me it should be 2 attack dice.

10 minutes ago, DarthEnderX said:

The fact that it's normal attack uses the exact same guns as a regular TIE Fighter tells me it should be 2 attack dice.

Yes but facing down a TIE and facing down a Gunboat were vastly differing prospects.

Again I am basing this on the X wing PC game and not just stats written up somewhere in a guide, after all I think this whole thread is based on the nostalgia and reputation of said ship from that game.

13 minutes ago, Ashley said:

Yes but facing down a TIE and facing down a Gunboat were vastly differing prospects.

Yes, for reasons that have nothing to do with it's primary attack.

Fine, I remember it different and since this is all speculation and wishlisting we can agree to disagree.

That is until next week when wave 11 news breaks and there it will be in all it's glory......GUNBOAT( piloted by Sabine)

34 minutes ago, Ashley said:

Fine, I remember it different and since this is all speculation and wishlisting we can agree to disagree.

That is until next week when wave 11 news breaks and there it will be in all it's glory......GUNBOAT( piloted by Sabine)

All that speculating about the super weapons that Sabine designed, we'll look no further than GUNBOAT!

5 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

All that speculating about the super weapons that Sabine designed, we'll look no further than GUNBOAT!

Please no, please no.

Well there was that one mission in X-Wing where the Rebels stole Gunboats in order to disable a convoy or something? I just seem to remember you disabling them at a depot or something (depot=3-4 containers lol) and then having them be your wingmen in the next game.

Probably was Sabine, Ezra, and Hera flying them.

8 minutes ago, flyboymb said:

Well there was that one mission in X-Wing where the Rebels stole Gunboats in order to disable a convoy or something? I just seem to remember you disabling them at a depot or something (depot=3-4 containers lol) and then having them be your wingmen in the next game.

Probably was Sabine, Ezra, and Hera flying them.

All of them were slaved together with Chopper in the lead GUNBOAT. Only a cold, calculating murder-bot could use the GUNBOAT to its full potential.

12 hours ago, Odanan said:

They were terrifying because you couldn't kill them in the trade (tanky), not because of the firepower of their lasers.

Gunboats in the X-Wing games were (very) dangerous because of their missiles, not because of the puny lasers.

2 attack dice is the most accurate you can get. It will keep the ship cheap and allow you to bring ordinance and/or cannon. We don't need another TIE Defender - we need a highly customizable (and cheap) multi-role ship that will fit our needs.

The base values of the Gunboat are ok.
Swap one Missile Slot to a Torp slot.

I remember having Proton Torps mostly when flying the Gunboat.

Linked Ion Cannons is too weak.

Alpha Strike could be a cool card for Punisher ... buuuut as an EPT its a no no.

Expanded Launchers is cool for ships with only one missile/torp/bomb slot ...

24 minutes ago, GeneralBergfrühling said:

The base values of the Gunboat are ok.
Swap one Missile Slot to a Torp slot.

I remember having Proton Torps mostly when flying the Gunboat.

And I remember having Torpedoes and Bombs in Defender if I wanted them.

Multipurpose launchers aren't really a thing in XWM. The lore says they had missile launchers, go with that.

35 minutes ago, GeneralBergfrühling said:

The base values of the Gunboat are ok.
Swap one Missile Slot to a Torp slot.

I remember having Proton Torps mostly when flying the Gunboat.

Linked Ion Cannons is too weak.

Alpha Strike could be a cool card for Punisher ... buuuut as an EPT its a no no.

Expanded Launchers is cool for ships with only one missile/torp/bomb slot ...

I recall the game when the cool talking Imperial captain stated some directive.....I think you're on to something with this post; keep it up! We'll make sure that FFG designers feel our absolute passion for this super-iconic childhood dream of the Star Wars universe....

57 minutes ago, GeneralBergfrühling said:

I remember having Proton Torps mostly when flying the Gunboat.

Linked Ion Cannons is too weak.

I did a card to reflect the versatility of the Gunboat in terms of ordinance. It's here.

Linked Ion Cannons too weak? For 1 point? Well, you could always replace it for some big bad cannon.

Actually would be interesting if FFG would institute a Missile/Torpedo icon. Pretty much saying that you can equip one or the other without having to put both icons on the card. Would that be a suitable way to keep the cost of the fighter down by keeping it from equipping both at the same time or would it be not worth the effort?

I have the distinct feeling that I already brought this up like 100 pages ago. Oh well, is so here it is again!

Hey, i encourage looping the same conversations until I have at least three of these in hand.

Speaking of which, I do get the desire to keep cost down. I'd love to get three Gunboats out with ordance. But I'd also love to see this ship recreate that linked everything feel, and in a different way than the defender double tap.

A slight tweak to the proposed card above would work, and for those shaving points, they don't need to buy it.

Trythfully if this could just fly like an Imperial discount ARC 170 minus the tail gun plus some missiles, I'd be really happy

I don't see why the assault gunboat could have a special card that pretty much says it can have a -5 point cost deducted from any ordanance it takes.

11 hours ago, Odanan said:

I did a card to reflect the versatility of the Gunboat in terms of ordinance. It's here.

Linked Ion Cannons too weak? For 1 point? Well, you could always replace it for some big bad cannon.

Problem is that the primary weapon of the gunboat is 2 dice, and most of the time that will do nothing against most commonly used ships. So you are effectively paying 1 point for a cannon that will do nothing most of the time.

At least the tractor beam is 3 dice.

If the gunboat is going to be a slow bulky ship, with a price around the 20 points, then it cannot have a 2 dice attack (even when its attack stat is 2). It needs to come with something that leaves it on par with at least the B-Wing, Mist Hunter, or BTL-A4 Y-Wing. Also, remember that the BTL-A4 Y-Wing is most effectively used for delivering stress with R3-A2. That is, non-dice dependent effects.

I like your cards and proposals, but the particular builds you posted above, I don't think anyone would ever use them.

The first one is a PS 2, 17 point ship that you don't get to deploy until the rival destroy another of your ships. For 17 points you get a 2/1/5/3 ship that has a dial probably close to the Y-Wing or B-Wing, right?
That is basically a fat Z-95. It's not fast or agile enough to be a blocker, but it doesn't have firepower to be a jouster either. I know it's just an example, but it doesn't really outstand at anything. It's actually worse than bringing a B-Wing or X-wing or BTL-A4 Y-Wing, or even an A-Wing. At least those you have from the beginning of the match, and have better firepower, or agility, or both.

The second one is 33 points. A third of your squadron. For that price you get a 1 use double tap on secondary weapons. I guess you chose Cluster Missiles and Fire control system before the FAQ added the Attack Phase flow chart. Even changing them with a different type of missiles, this is not much better than a B-Wing with Plasma torpedoes, FCS, and Extra munitions (29 points), and those aren't warping the meta, precisely. One reason why TIE/D is less often used than TIE/x7 is that when performing a double tap, most of the time you don't have enough modifiers to make both attacks matter. Firing ordnance most of the time will eat the target lock by itself, and will have you attacking with naked dice in the second attack. Is it better to double tap than to perform two different attacks in different rounds when you can actually modify them properly?
Also, after the first double tap, you lose that ability and you have a 33 points B-wing. For that price you can get a Delta TIE/D with Ion Cannon that has double tap forever and has also an agility of 3 and probably even better dial. Again, you don't see these winning tournaments either.

I want to have the Gunboat as much as any other here. But it needs to bring something useful to the table, instead of being just a pretty model that is dead-on-arrival gameplay-wise.

Quote

But it needs to bring something useful to the table, instead of being just a pretty model that is dead-on-arrival gameplay-wise.

That's only if 100/6 tournament play is your litmus test of a useful ship.

I'd much rather they make an interesting, solid ship that reflects the proper feel of the Gunboat rather than worrying about it being a Worlds-winning ship. If it's fun to play and looks good, it'll sell plenty.

4 hours ago, Azrapse said:

Problem is that the primary weapon of the gunboat is 2 dice, and most of the time that will do nothing against most commonly used ships. So you are effectively paying 1 point for a cannon that will do nothing most of the time.

At least the tractor beam is 3 dice.

If the gunboat is going to be a slow bulky ship, with a price around the 20 points, then it cannot have a 2 dice attack (even when its attack stat is 2). It needs to come with something that leaves it on par with at least the B-Wing, Mist Hunter, or BTL-A4 Y-Wing. Also, remember that the BTL-A4 Y-Wing is most effectively used for delivering stress with R3-A2. That is, non-dice dependent effects.

I like your cards and proposals, but the particular builds you posted above, I don't think anyone would ever use them.

The first one is a PS 2, 17 point ship that you don't get to deploy until the rival destroy another of your ships. For 17 points you get a 2/1/5/3 ship that has a dial probably close to the Y-Wing or B-Wing, right?
That is basically a fat Z-95. It's not fast or agile enough to be a blocker, but it doesn't have firepower to be a jouster either. I know it's just an example, but it doesn't really outstand at anything. It's actually worse than bringing a B-Wing or X-wing or BTL-A4 Y-Wing, or even an A-Wing. At least those you have from the beginning of the match, and have better firepower, or agility, or both.

The second one is 33 points. A third of your squadron. For that price you get a 1 use double tap on secondary weapons. I guess you chose Cluster Missiles and Fire control system before the FAQ added the Attack Phase flow chart. Even changing them with a different type of missiles, this is not much better than a B-Wing with Plasma torpedoes, FCS, and Extra munitions (29 points), and those aren't warping the meta, precisely. One reason why TIE/D is less often used than TIE/x7 is that when performing a double tap, most of the time you don't have enough modifiers to make both attacks matter. Firing ordnance most of the time will eat the target lock by itself, and will have you attacking with naked dice in the second attack. Is it better to double tap than to perform two different attacks in different rounds when you can actually modify them properly?
Also, after the first double tap, you lose that ability and you have a 33 points B-wing. For that price you can get a Delta TIE/D with Ion Cannon that has double tap forever and has also an agility of 3 and probably even better dial. Again, you don't see these winning tournaments either.

I want to have the Gunboat as much as any other here. But it needs to bring something useful to the table, instead of being just a pretty model that is dead-on-arrival gameplay-wise.

Hey, we can apparently have either lore or balance here. Not both.

2 hours ago, Kharnvor said:

That's only if 100/6 tournament play is your litmus test of a useful ship.

I'd much rather they make an interesting, solid ship that reflects the proper feel of the Gunboat rather than worrying about it being a Worlds-winning ship. If it's fun to play and looks good, it'll sell plenty.

What this guy said. ^

17 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

And I remember having Torpedoes and Bombs in Defender if I wanted them.

Multipurpose launchers aren't really a thing in XWM. The lore says they had missile launchers, go with that.

The Assault Gunboats armament list according to Lore (my comments in brackets):

2 Taim & Bak-KX5-Laser Cannons
2 Borstel-NK-3-Ion Cannons
2 SFS-M-s-3 Launchers, each with:
8 (medium) Concussion Missiles
6 Proton Torpedos
4 Heavy Concussion Missiles (I guess thats what Assault Missiles stand for - could also be Advanced Concussion Missiles)
4 Shieldbuster-Torpedos (this would be Plasma Torps or even Ion Torps)
2 Heavy Space Bombs

12 minutes ago, GeneralBergfrühling said:

The Assault Gunboats armament list according to Lore (my comments in brackets):

2 Taim & Bak-KX5-Laser Cannons
2 Borstel-NK-3-Ion Cannons
2 SFS-M-s-3 Launchers, each with:
8 (medium) Concussion Missiles
6 Proton Torpedos
4 Heavy Concussion Missiles (I guess thats what Assault Missiles stand for - could also be Advanced Concussion Missiles)
4 Shieldbuster-Torpedos (this would be Plasma Torps or even Ion Torps)
2 Heavy Space Bombs

Just to clarify, those missile/torp listings were the variable loadouts from X-Wing/TIE Fighter. They could carry either 8 concussion missiles in each pod, OR 6 proton torpedoes, OR 2 Heavy Space Bombs etc.

Good to see the Wookiee has been updated with the correct capacity, though.

Think the HCM are Space Rockets from TIE Fighter. Not sure what Shieldbusters are though.

Just wanted to add my weekly !~GUNBOAT~!

And more for SEO purposes:

Imperial Assault Gunboat

Alpha XG1 Assault Gunboat

Starwing Assault Gunboat

Imperial Starwing Assault Gunboat

Tau 1, Mu 1, Rho 1, Nu 1 - don't remember there being a Pi Gunboat flightgroup though.

19 hours ago, Kharnvor said:

That's only if 100/6 tournament play is your litmus test of a useful ship.

I'd much rather they make an interesting, solid ship that reflects the proper feel of the Gunboat rather than worrying about it being a Worlds-winning ship. If it's fun to play and looks good, it'll sell plenty.

And why can't we have both? You think the TIE Punisher would sell much if it weren't because it comes with Extra Munitions and TIE Mark II?

I don't think the game needs any more dust gatherers. If we are going to get the Gunboat, I want it to be useful and competitive at the same time that it is thematic and lore-friendly. What good is to get the Gunboat if it is never seen, and bringing it on the table means that you are doing it just for the sake of it, rather than because the ship itself is interesting?

When there are voices clamoring for bringing the X-Wing, B-Wing and Kihraxz back in line with the rest of the game, what is the point of introducing a ship that would be worse than those?