I'd love the Gunboat just as much as the next guy, but I can't be the only one thinking it isn't going to happen. They had the perfect opportunity to introduce the Missile Boat opposite the K-Wing in wave 7. Instead they opted for another TIE design that nobody had even heard of, let alone wanted. The only reason to choose the Punisher over the Missile Boat is if you are unwilling or unable to give the Empire a non-TIE small ship. This leaves me little hope of getting the wonderful Gunboat in a future wave, as it is not a TIE.

No wave 7 was not the place for the missile boat. They typically try not to do too much new in a single wave as it gets hard to test. You can see where this became an issue in wave 8 a little bit with the scout though luckily not really insanely OP, just a little less than ideal.

The K-wing and Punisher allowed for reinforcement of things like bombs and extra munitions. Slam is designed and tested so it can be used in the future without being unfamiliar. I think the general idea is in order for a ship to make the cut it has to add something to the game that isn't there yet and the better the add the further up the line the ship goes. The Gunboat is not a critical add so it will be slow to be added, but I fully expect it will eventually, it is a very pretty and unique ship for the empire with a niche that nothing else for the empire fills.

The Missile boat is also a super unique ship that should likely add some crazy offensive capabilities for alpha strikes, so it needs longer in testing which means I would expect it after the gunboat.

All in all I expect both these ships and the Avenger will make it in by say wave 12. There just are not that many cooler ships to work through before them even with the movies coming out.

You need to change the bottom text color, it dosn't show up very well

I take it you're using the new forum theme Salted Diamond!

It's a png file - the background is transparent, so you can copy/paste it over any image or background colour and only the logo text will show.

FFG this thread has hit 126 pages, give the people their gunboats!

I personally dont mind one way or the other but i would hope that a thread this long shows the market for it.

An odd number of pages means people want the gunboat.

An even number of pages means people don't want the gunboat.

I wonder.... If we started a new gunboat topic as to who wants one (or4) and everyone who wants one puts down their name. How long would the list be? Is there a lot of different ppl or just a handful of diehards that keep this post going and growing??

173 different forum users actively tracking the topic and counting (you can see the current number at the top of the page, right hand side, next to the "follow this topic" button). That's over half the number of users tracking the X-Wing forum itself.

Captain Lacky, Darius, Gecko and me. That's four.

Everyone else is waiting to see our reaction when the Clawcraft, Dunelizard and the Punishest are released before the GUNBOAT.

I'd quite like a Dunelizard, actually. It's Scum, so it's not stepping on any Imperial toes.

And I'm sure DarthEnderX would be ecstatic if he got his Clawcraft (God only knows what faction that would appear in, though).

Mediocre.

An apt visual representation of this thread.

You spin me right round baby right round....

Isn't there another site that uses this song?

https://youtu.be/teADb_kMRVY

Mediocre.

An apt visual representation of this thread.

You spin me right round baby right round....

Isn't there another site that uses this song?

Must be YouTube.

173 different forum users actively tracking the topic and counting (you can see the current number at the top of the page, right hand side, next to the "follow this topic" button). That's over half the number of users tracking the X-Wing forum itself.

to be fair you automatically follow a topic just by posting in it so...........

So basically the ultimate alphastriker then All Shields Forward. An all-or-nothing ship, where if you don't take your target out with the initial salvo, you've got a 2 attack primary and a crappy dial to finish the job...

You'd still have the cannon slot. So would be nice to have an alpha striker that then had utility as a control ship.

to be fair you automatically follow a topic just by posting in it so...........

Is that so? I must have switched that off in my forum settings back in the dawn of time then, because I don't.

In either case, that's still well over half the users on the forum who've contributed to this topic at one stage or another.

You'd still have the cannon slot. So would be nice to have an alpha striker that then had utility as a control ship.

True enough, that's going to be a lot of points spent on secondaries, though.

With stats like 2/2/4/3 or similar, a Gunboat without ordnance or cannons is just a beefier Z-95.

Now, a Z-95 has a use as part of a swarm or a blocker. But the Empire has already a ship for that: the TIE Fighter. Extra hitpoints don't add much to a blocker or swarm ship.

A TIE Bomber without ordnance is also just a beefier Z-95, and there was no reason to field one like that. Up until now, that the TIE Shuttle title gives them a role as light crew carrier. So now you have a reason to field one without its signature ordnance load. Good job, FFG!

Back to the gunboat, ideally a ship should be workable with any configuration of upgrades. For example, the B-Wing: you can field it naked, or add cannons, or add torpedoes, or add crew, and every extra you add makes it more effective (although doublessly less efficient).

How can the gunboat be as effective as a naked B-Wing for about the same price range? (And ignoring the relevance of it in the current meta, for now).

Either you reduce the cost, or you allow it to have some free cannon or ordnance. Again, reducing the cost to 16 (TIE Bomber) is not going to convince anyone to field it naked, because a TIE Fighter does the same better for 12 points.

You need to make it more interesting than being a blocker. And, by the lore, the gunboat wasn't really an arcdodger or a turret, neither it carried crew for buffing support.

What roles are left?

I can think on these:

Alphastriker: At 32 points fully equipped, the jumpmasters are the king alphastrikers nowadays. They have two rounds of peak damage. However, after that, they still contribute because their nimbleness and their primary turret. The stay relevant after the initial rounds.
The gunboat could perform this role by equipping ordnance and its needed modifiers, but still keeping some other weapon so that they stay relevant after the alpha strike. They cannot have astromechs, or crew to support their ordnance attacks (and possibly not even EPTs). Also, they won't have a turret to keep them useful later on.
Instead, they will need some other way to achieve this. Perhaps some discount to allow them to have a cannon and still cost around 22 points before ordnance.
It would compete with: TIE Bombers, and TIE Punishers already perform this role. Typically they remain relevant after the alphastrike by performing board control duties with mines or bombs. The gunboat should provide a compromise by allowing a weaker alphastrike than that of the dedicated bombers, in exchange of more straightforwad post-alphastrike performance.

Neo-jouster: Jousting is dead. Long live jousting! Nowadays, damage mitigation is so high that even when getting an opponent in arc and shotting with modifiers there is high chance you deal no or little damage. Neo-jousters are those ships that make sure that if you manage to get your opponent in your arc, he would wish you didn't, even if you didn't end killing their ships. The Stresshog is one of the kings of neojousting, along with Omega Leader. Tractor Beam, Tactician, R3-A2, Ions or different pilot skills enable this. TIE/x7 and TIE/D Defenders are also part of this "Jouster+" breed.

The gunboat would feel just right in this role. It needs to equip upgrades that either help dealing damage in arc consistently, or that at least have serious side effects whenever you manage to get someone in arc. It is okay if focused fire on the gunboat makes it pop, because survivability is not the main concern of this role. It needs to live enough to weaken or hamper an enemy so that its companions finish him off.

It would compete with: TIE Defender, mainly, although at a much higher price range because the Defender has stats and abilities that allow it to outlive, outmaneuver, or more consistently keep enemies in arc than a gunboat ever would. The gunboat should allow to bring one disruptive, annoying neo-jouster to the squadron without having to build the entire squadron around it. More a team-player than the star of the team.

What other roles you think it could/should perform, and how what would make it unique from other existing ships in the Empire when performing that role?

Alphastriker is the probably the most obvious role, cheap control would be another. The Empire's cheapest control option at the moment would be the Lambda, with Omicron Group Pilot and Ion cannon at 24 points.

I'd expect the cheapest generic Ion Cannon Gunboat to clock in at at around 21 points (based on GoldSP equivalent + Ion Cannon), with the advantage of small base and better maneuverability but without the multitude of options available through the Lambda's system slot and crew. It would become increasingly more expensive as you add potential tricks and upgrades, for example ordnance & one of the BTL-A4-equivalent or alpha ordnance mechanics discussed earlier.

Multi-role then; just as it was in the lore. A cheap, rugged control carrier or loaded for bear.

I think the way to make it a Alpha/jouster would be an upgrade for it only that allows a missile after a primary. If it has the suggested 2 missile slots +GC, this would make it rather potent in either role. Maybe have it take up the cannon slot the way the X-7 for the defender takes the missile/cannon. That way there is a trade off. No control, but a better alpha. And with the 2nd missile(+GC), it would still be relevent for a 2nd round of shooting.

Out of curiosity, how many people would be outraged by a clear "spiritual successor" to the gunboat, in canon, but that changes names and aspects (weapons/crew/equipment) from the old game?

I'm thinking it's easier to accept an imperial "Personal Assault Shuttle" looking like an imperial shuttle, than calling it a starfighter and competing with Sienar.

Out of curiosity, how many people would be outraged by a clear "spiritual successor" to the gunboat, in canon, but that changes names and aspects (weapons/crew/equipment) from the old game?

I'm thinking it's easier to accept an imperial "Personal Assault Shuttle" looking like an imperial shuttle, than calling it a starfighter and competing with Sienar.

It depends. Do we consider the TIE/fo a "spiritual successor" to the TIE/ln? If so, then yes, I'd be happy with a "spiritual successor" to the Gunboat.

Let's be clear here - apart from FractalSponge's incredible reimagining of the ship, and FFG's artwork from Edge Of The Empire, most images and depictions of the Assault Gunboat are quite old. 15-20 years, in fact.

So obviously there's room there for FFG to build on the original concept and modernize the look to come up with an amazing sculpt - just like they did with the frankly godawful artwork for the K-Wing.

And frankly I couldn't care less about the Cygnus/Sienar backstory, so long as we get a readily identifiable Gunboat as a result. That said, Cygnus Spaceworks still exists in canon. The Lambda Shuttle exists in canon. Why simply can 20 years of lore on a whim like that?

Out of curiosity, how many people would be outraged by a clear "spiritual successor" to the gunboat, in canon, but that changes names and aspects (weapons/crew/equipment) from the old game?

I'm thinking it's easier to accept an imperial "Personal Assault Shuttle" looking like an imperial shuttle, than calling it a starfighter and competing with Sienar.

Would I be able to easly proxy the assault gunboat model for the new ship? I can use my missile boat as a Punisher, if a "new" ship could easly be a GUNBOAT, I could sleep at night.

I'm reimagining the XG1 as a replacement for all those "hyperdrive intercepters" that seinor fleet officers (and their entourage) used (in legends) when they wanted to take shore leave.

A heavilly armed, pilot+passanger (so the admirals dont have to learn to fly) ship, that clever ship captians (tying into the "Fleet Admiral" thrawn-replacement story arc) will use as hyperspace intercepters when a star destroyer cant be in 2 places at once.

(Showcase of the Gunboat's versatility)

EDIT: worked a little on Mel's mini to match more with the card's arts.

Out of curiosity, how many people would be outraged by a clear "spiritual successor" to the gunboat, in canon, but that changes names and aspects (weapons/crew/equipment) from the old game?

I'm thinking it's easier to accept an imperial "Personal Assault Shuttle" looking like an imperial shuttle, than calling it a starfighter and competing with Sienar.

That's the ISP, Imperial Shuttle Pod. Kenner made that as a Mini-rig vehicle over 30 years ago.

Hey! Thats my mini and my paintjob! Thanks for thinking it was so well done it would look oficial