2 hours ago, Odanan said:

An utilitarian (and cheap) cannon might be useful.

(But between a Mangler and UGR, what would you take, anyway?)

Mangler, no question. Being able to get double mods > only being able to get single mods.

3 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

o_O why would you need a cannon AND UGR?

Because things like Ion Cannons and Tractor Beams don't really deal damage?

On 27/07/2017 at 6:04 PM, MacchuWA said:

So, don't get me wrong here, I'm definitely pro gunboat, but what do people think that the gunboat as envisioned in this thread could bring that the Empire doesn't already have access to?

Given that the probable closest analogue to the gunboat (BTL-A4 Y wing with an Ion cannon turret) isn't exactly tearing up the tables, do people think the gunboat will bring something that will make it more of a competitive force than, say, the U Wing? Will it be down to pilot abilities? What could the gunboat bring to the competitive scene that we haven't already seen, or that won't simply see it arc dodged into insignificance?

Well, given that in recent waves FFG has decided to introduce Epic play actions into standard play, with Co-ordinate on the Upsilon and Reinforce on the Auzituck, the Assault Gunboat could potentially be a candidate for introducing the Jamming action into standard play. The Jamming Beam was a weapon introduced in the TIE Fighter PC Game, and was used to prevent an enemy ships from firing. In X-Wing: Alliance, a lot of larger ships and capital ships used it to prevent close-range strafing runs.

Jamming has a different mechanic in X-Wing Epic Play however, potentially crippling ships by assigning two stress tokens at a time to those affected. Having ships on the board which can use their own actions to deny enemy ships actions could be pretty useful - especially when you consider how powerful it could be on low PS ships facing high PS aces. Dumping multiple stress tokens on an elite ship before they activate could seriously boost the performance of low PS generics, somewhat level the playing field for swarms and provide a counter to the PS arms race (and that's before considering potential interactions with dedicated upgrades or pilot abilities). I'm guessing someone like @MajorJuggler would have a better idea of how introducing the Jamming action at this stage could impact standard play (other than making Inspiring Recruit a must include, that is). Would being able to potentially shut down Lowhhrick's Reinforce put a dent in the Fareship Rebels list?

If could also work from the point of view of the Gunboat being an Imperial "escort" ship - having a couple of ships with the "Jam" action on the flanks of a TIE swarm could actively help prevent "being arc dodged into insignificance" and make approach play and manuevering so much more important for your opponent.

The Jamming action was balanced somewhat on Epic ships by having them activate last. The question is, how could you make it effective on a standard play ship without opening it up to abuse? Putting it on a relatively sluggish chassis like - say - a BTL-A4 Y-Wing analogue could be a start. And of course if we're talking Gunboats with Ion Cannons, stress + ion = death. Maybe a Jamming action "lite" where it only works at range one and/or in arc for small/large based ships could be effective without being too overwhelming.

I'd say Jam in standard should be action: assign a stress to a ship in your firing arc. Note that it doesn't have to be an enemy, you could give Fel a stress to give him a focus, or QD a stress to trigger Baffles.

2 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Well, given that in recent waves FFG has decided to introduce Epic play actions into standard play, with Co-ordinate on the Upsilon and Reinforce on the Auzituck, the Assault Gunboat could potentially be a candidate for introducing the Jamming action into standard play. The Jamming Beam was a weapon introduced in the TIE Fighter PC Game, and was used to prevent an enemy ships from firing. In X-Wing: Alliance, a lot of larger ships and capital ships used it to prevent close-range strafing runs.

Jamming has a different mechanic in X-Wing Epic Play however, potentially crippling ships by assigning two stress tokens at a time to those affected. Having ships on the board which can use their own actions to deny enemy ships actions could be pretty useful - especially when you consider how powerful it could be on low PS ships facing high PS aces. Dumping multiple stress tokens on an elite ship before they activate could seriously boost the performance of low PS generics, somewhat level the playing field for swarms and provide a counter to the PS arms race (and that's before considering potential interactions with dedicated upgrades or pilot abilities). I'm guessing someone like @MajorJuggler would have a better idea of how introducing the Jamming action at this stage could impact standard play (other than making Inspiring Recruit a must include, that is). Would being able to potentially shut down Lowhhrick's Reinforce put a dent in the Fareship Rebels list?

If could also work from the point of view of the Gunboat being an Imperial "escort" ship - having a couple of ships with the "Jam" action on the flanks of a TIE swarm could actively help prevent "being arc dodged into insignificance" and make approach play and manuevering so much more important for your opponent.

The Jamming action was balanced somewhat on Epic ships by having them activate last. The question is, how could you make it effective on a standard play ship without opening it up to abuse? Putting it on a relatively sluggish chassis like - say - a BTL-A4 Y-Wing analogue could be a start. And of course if we're talking Gunboats with Ion Cannons, stress + ion = death. Maybe a Jamming action "lite" where it only works at range one and/or in arc for small/large based ships could be effective without being too overwhelming.

That would be so cool. Game designers, please read this.

• Jam as is would be moderately horrific. An action on a ship for 2 stress on an enemy ship is unbelievably harsh (it's basically the stresshog with no arc limitations, no stress to yourself, allowing you to shoot at someone else, and potentially stressing the target before it gets to activate).
• Reinforce has proved that FFG is prepared to modify the epic actions for small scale play - Reinforce having the in/out of arc effect makes sense, for example, on a single-section ship.
• If introduced in the form of a 'jamming beam' then it sounds like you'd have either a cannon slot or systems slot upgrade card providing it. Having it arc-limited and not automatic makes sense. You could have it roll 2 dice, for example, and apply one stress on each [hit] or [critical] result - that way you're potentially delivering 2 stress but in reality probably only 1.
• I wouldn't want to make it an attack to trigger (that makes it too much like the flechette cannon!) but it might be too good to allow you to attack (especially, as noted, if your ship also has an ion cannon effect) - so you could either make it 'instead of attacking' or make it an action but have it place a 'weapons disabled' token on you like SLAM.

56 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

• Jam as is would be moderately horrific. An action on a ship for 2 stress on an enemy ship is unbelievably harsh (it's basically the stresshog with no arc limitations, no stress to yourself, allowing you to shoot at someone else, and potentially stressing the target before it gets to activate)

That is my concern. It would need to be balanced somehow, especially if it's going to be spammable. There are a few counters already out there, however, especailly if we're talking using the Jam action in PS order. Inspiring Recruit on it's own could make the Jam action worthless (unless stacked). Agree you would want to avoid overlap with Flechette Cannons as well.

You know I actually had a dream last night that the Gunboat was revealed to be in the next wave.

And it was glorious.

But I woke up before the Wave released...

The problem is that the epic Jam has little to do with the kind of jamming that a gunboat could do in TIE Fighter and XvT with the jamming beam. It was weapon jamming. I consider stress more like communication's jamming, or some similar thing that distracts the pilot or stresses the ship's systems.

What about:

·Jamming Beam
System
When attacking, if the attack hits, you may cancel 1 hit or crit result to assign the Weapons Jammed condition to the defender.

·Weapons Jammed
Condition
You cannot perform attacks with the Attack (Focus) or Attack (Target Lock) headers at all, or attacks out of arc at range 2 or beyond.
You cannot modify your attack dice. After the next time you have had a chance to attack, discard this card.

This card is triggered by an attack, but unlike flechette cannon, it doesn't just assign stress.
It prevents red dice modification, so it makes enemy weapons less effective for one attack. It also prevents one ship from performing a missile, torpedo. Turret attacks get limited.
Alpha strikers would hate this. Miranda would hate this. Ships that superbuff their attacks would hate this.
It's a system that triggers from a primary or cannon attack, so it takes a premium slot on the ship, and makes the triggering attack weaker, but the effects are great. Not as bad as a Blind Pilot, but it should severely reduce the damage output of the defender for one attack, that can be critical at several stages in the game.

Miranda couldn't kite while regenerating. The revenge shot from Dengar would be weaker. Torpedo scouts would get one ship out (B-wings would love this!). One TLT could be neutered. Autocorrector turrets would be easier to deal with...

Jamming Beam as a condition card? That's an idea that's got potential.

I'm not totally convinced by that wording though Azrapse; it has the potential to essentially neuter every low agility turret ship in the game. The Decimator especially would be utterly hosed if a ship with Jamming Beam got behind it.

It's 100% better than assigning a Weapons Disabled token though.

3 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Jamming Beam as a condition card? That's an idea that's got potential.

I'm not totally convinced by that wording though Azrapse; it has the potential to essentially neuter every low agility turret ship in the game. The Decimator especially would be utterly hosed if a ship with Jamming Beam got behind it.

It's 100% better than assigning a Weapons Disabled token though.

Good point on the Decimator. Perhaps it shouldn't prevent out of arc attacks totally, since some ships have it really hard to face their opponents.
Is not being able to modify the roll bad enough to rein TLT and autocorrector, as well as primary turrets?
I think TLT wouldn't be so much affected, since most of the time those attacks aren't modified anyway, and it was precisely TLT the turret I wanted to affect most.

I'm digging these ideas on the jamming beam being a system. Maybe make it Imperial or Gunboat only. as for the ions/linked ions... I'm kinda torn. I think those should be handled how the BTL-A4 treats turrets on the Y-Wing with a free second attack, but with this, make it a cannon so it's not a copy/paste of that card. I was thinking, maybe allow it to use advanced targeting computer or a variation thereof? This thing is a weapons platform! It should have some advanced hardware in it! (yeah yeah, another errata card would be needed, but COME ON!)

So, going through the thread we've hammered out some KILLER ship capabilities and options... but, not so much PILOT abilities! How many aces should this sucker get? Generics should totally be Tau and Rho squadrons.

One idea that I've read that would be PERFECT for the gunboat would be "Micro jump". Place a micro-jump token at the front or rear of your base and remove the ship from the field for the rest of the current and following round. During the activation phase of the 3rd round (1st round was when you began the micro jump, 2nd was the round AFTER that, 3rd is when you come back in), you may place the ship on the field at range 3 of the micro jump token. You cannot perform actions, but are given a free focus. You may attack this round.

11 minutes ago, Kehl_Aecea said:

So, going through the thread we've hammered out some KILLER ship capabilities and options... but, not so much PILOT abilities! How many aces should this sucker get? Generics should totally be Tau and Rho squadrons.

One of the pilots has to be "Mewtwo." I will never forget the time I finally got speakers for the game, and my wingman reported in, "This is Mu 2. Target destroyed." I died laughing!

LOL okay, so "Mu 2", PS 4 maybe? I mean, Mewtwo was a pretty angry psychic cat thing... I was thinking with that blind rage he would fire indiscriminately where he would hit all ships in his firing arc at range 1 and 2 with 1 hit, but that... that is just broken... so, maybe "when performing a boost or barrel roll action, use the 2 templates instead of the 1 template"? Just a fun little thought...

Or, since he was reporting that the target was destroyed, he could get some benefit when his attack destroys a ship...maybe make another attack? Not as strong as Dengar, but priced right, it could be cool.

After all, you know we're all going to have enough of these to run an Epic task force, and that's a pretty cool ability in Epic.

On 7/31/2017 at 3:15 PM, Alpha Xg1 said:

ROFL! NICE!!!! I always knew Benny had his heart n' mind in the right place - ever since I saw his smiley face.

Whoa! Wait, JUST took a closer look at this! That's not Benny! It's Bennita!!!! Look at her face! ROFL!!!

Hrm...have forgotten how to multi-quote.

Warlon:

"You know I actually had a dream last night that the Gunboat was revealed to be in the next wave.

And it was glorious.

But I woke up before the Wave released..."

Hehehehehehe. You funny, funny individual!

Don't lose sight of hope!

Some Pilots:

Mu Squadron Pilot, PS3
Rho Squadron Pilot, PS5, EPT
•Envoy of the Secret Order, PS5
At the beginning of the combat phase, you may assign a focus token to every friendly ship at range 1-3 of you that is at range 1 of an enemy ship.
(This ability represents the insight provided by the Envoy of the Secret Order during missions, after you closely scanned enemy ships, most of the time completing secondary objectives assigned by him)

•Maarek Stele, PS 7, EPT
His usual ability

•The Emperor's Reach
Title, Maarek Stele only
When attacking, if the defender has in his firing arc another unique friendly ship of Pilot Skill higher than yours, or a friendly ship with an Imperial only unique crew upgrade worth 2 or more points, you may change all your dice results into crit results.

(This title represents the many times Maarek Stele escorted, protected, or rescued big names during his storyline. When a top dog is threatened, Maarek gets to use his ability to the max. He becomes kind of an imperial Biggs in the sense that if they ignore him and go for the more expensive guys, that is gonna hurt them)

Maybe stick to The Emperor's Hand - allow a ship carrying Mara Jade to benefit, too?

Also, maybe not a title: itd be nice if the ability - whatever it is - is useable on advanced or defender Maarek Stele.

I Like the idea of a jamming beam condition token. Primary turrets probably shouldn't be locked out, but I could see "may not modify attack dice or attack with secondary weapons", which locks out torpedoes and turrets at a stroke.

23 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Maybe stick to The Emperor's Hand - allow a ship carrying Mara Jade to benefit, too?

Also, maybe not a title: itd be nice if the ability - whatever it is - is useable on advanced or defender Maarek Stele.

I Like the idea of a jamming beam condition token. Primary turrets probably shouldn't be locked out, but I could see "may not modify attack dice or attack with secondary weapons", which locks out torpedoes and turrets at a stroke.

It's a title to Maarek Stele, not to the Gunboat. The Emperor's Reach could be used on the TIE Advanced, where Maarek could use his actions for repositioning or evading, leaving the combat modifiers to the title.
On a TIE/D it is awesome, but perhaps even better on a vanilla title-less HLC TIE Defender.
On a crowd-control Gunboat, with the upgrade I suggested in the previous page, it could make Maarek quite effective, even if less damaging.

Of course, its value depends a lot on the rest of your squadron. If you go with a bunch of generics, it does nothing. This makes sense in an aces kind of squad, where Maarek is the lowest PS, or the other ships carry Hux, Vader, Palpy, Kylo, etc. Imperial aces have really squishy ships that could benefit of a bodyguard like Maarek, just like he did with Vader a couple of times. And it gives more value to bringing a shuttle (any) filled up with expensive dudes, that is really one of the Empire's signature configurations.

The Emperor's Hand was Mara Jade's title. I didn't want to confuse it with the rank Maarek could reach in the Secret Order, and that is why I chose the last, highest, rank instead. (It was Hand, Eyes, Voice, and Reach from lower to higher). You save the Emperor's bacon twice, so it is more than what Jade did.

About preventing attacks with secondary weapons, in general, it's too strong effect. A Heavy Laser Cannon worth 7 points cannot be disabled just like that. Keeping it from modifying dice is bad enough. Perhaps, attacks out of arc roll one fewer die, representing the turret turning mechanism gets a bit jammed?

On 15/06/2014 at 10:32 AM, FTS Gecko said:

POTENTIAL PILOTS:

From the TIE Fighter Strategy Guide/Stele Chronicles:

• Maarek Stele, obviously (but he's already flying two different ships in the game).
• Xeal
• Flight Officer Carith
• Flight Officer Alimet
• Flight Officer Ketcher

Other sources:

• Noble Calder
• Lieutenant Rignik

If we're talking pilots, there's a couple of options available..

If we nerf the Jam action to being range 1 or 1-2 and only a single stress it could be pretty interesting. Or since with the quadjumper we've seen that FFG is willing to autoassign conditions in arc at range 1 maybe an instant ionisation at range one as an action or as an ability or a weapons disabled token?

Could be intersting but walks the fine line of being broken or gimmicky...

2 hours ago, Quadjumper King said:

If we nerf the Jam action to being range 1 or 1-2 and only a single stress it could be pretty interesting. Or since with the quadjumper we've seen that FFG is willing to autoassign conditions in arc at range 1 maybe an instant ionisation at range one as an action or as an ability or a weapons disabled token?

Could be intersting but walks the fine line of being broken or gimmicky...

What about:
System Scrambler
Action: Choose 1 enemy ship that is within range 1 of you and roll 1 attack dice. Assign a stress token for a hit, an ion token for blank and a weapons disabled token for a crit.

It will 100% do something, as for what, well, only the Gods will know.

Another reason for it being random is because its Imperial only and they never get auto assign like Scum.

On 7/31/2017 at 7:43 AM, thespaceinvader said:

o_O why would you need a cannon AND UGR?

In case you don't have the focus for the UGR? Also ion and stress carry over to next turn so the cannon offers effects above raw damage that UGR don't.

Still pricey though.

I would rarely if ever use UGR if I had any 3-die cannon other than maybe Tractor Beam, assuming a 2-die primary. at range 2 or 3 an ion cannon is going to do about the same damage as UGR anyway.

Let's face it; UGR - while unlimited - aren't exactly brilliant. Cruise Missiles are probably still the better choice for most ships that use missiles. If you're rocking a cannon the only real reason to take ordnance as well would be for a strong alpha strike, which UGR just doesn't do.

Anyway, my Gunboats would be running Concussion Missiles or Proton Torpedoes. Because I'm a traditionalist.